The NPR Politics Podcast - Biden: Russia's Invasion "Should Make Your Blood Run Cold"

Episode Date: September 21, 2022

President Biden's annual remarks before the United Nations General Assembly were designed to rally people at home and abroad to continue their support for the Ukrainian people. He also doubled-down on U.S. competition with China.This episode: voting reporter Miles Parks, White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez, and diplomatic correspondent Michele Kelemen. Learn more about upcoming live shows of The NPR Politics Podcast at nprpresents.org.Support the show and unlock sponsor-free listening with a subscription to The NPR Politics Podcast Plus. Learn more at plus.npr.org/politics Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hey there, NPR Politics Podcast. This is Kyle Lepick. I was once a fellow journalist, but now I'm a winemaker at Belago Winery, where I craft aromatic white wines, rich red wines, and crisp hard ciders on Michigan's beautiful Leelanau Peninsula. This podcast was recorded at 106 p.m. on September 21st, 2022. Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but I'll still be in the cellar listening to the pod, my other favorite NPR shows, or a different selection from the more than 150 podcasts in my library. Okay, here's the show. What a good decision. And I happen to be a wine consumer. So very, very much, very much appreciated, Kyle. Hey there, it's the NPR

Politics Podcast. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting. I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the White House. A permanent member of the United Nations Security Council invaded its neighbor, attempted to erase the sovereign state from the map. Russia has shamelessly violated the core tenets of the United Nations Charter. That, of course, was President Biden, who is giving a speech today to the United Nations General Assembly, which is meeting this week. And also there is NPR's Michelle Kellerman, who's also with us now. Hey, Michelle. Hi there.

So this is the first big in-person UN meeting of President Biden's tenure, which for someone who covers U.S. diplomacy, as you do, I imagine is kind of like your Super Bowl. Can you just tell us a little bit about what it's like there? Yeah, in fact, a State Department official called it the Super Bowl of diplomacy with us this week and said that this year it's full on, you know, lots of meetings on the sidelines and in the corridors at the U.N. A few folks wearing masks, but I didn't see a whole lot of that. Things are pretty much getting back to normal. And, of course, you have the traffic, which New Yorkers don't like. And the protesters are back, especially protesting the Iranian president's visit here in New York.

And we'll touch on that, Iran, in just a little bit. But the biggest international story right now and for the past seven months is Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Franco, can you talk a little bit about how the war in Ukraine has kind of cast a shadow on all the speeches today? Yeah, I mean, it was the focus of President Biden's speech. And he really went after Russian President Vladimir Putin, you know, saying that the war was really about, quote, extinguishing Ukraine's right to exist as a state. It really appeared that Biden was not just speaking to allies who've long been aligned with the United States and support Ukraine, but also leaders in the audience who have stood on the sidelines. He talked a lot about the UN charter that they all agreed to, you know, agreed to. And he said Putin violated the principles of that charter. And he said that if nations can pursue their, quote, imperial ambitions without consequences,

then these leaders put at risk everything the institution stands for. I'm curious, though, Franco, as somebody who covers this administration, what the appetite domestically is at this point, seven months into the war. The president had very strong words for the international community. How do those words play in the U.S.? The United States has contributed over $15 billion in aid, the White House told us this week. And that includes $600 million in just recent weeks. So there is definitely domestic appetite. They wouldn't be spending this amount of money if not. That said, there are some Republican House leaders who have been reluctant to commit

to continuing such high amounts of aid. And that's a big deal because, you know, Republicans could potentially take over control of the House. If those leaders are not willing to provide the same type of aid, that could be a challenge. And it's certainly a concern among European experts that I've spoke to, and Michelle can obviously speak more to this, but they're very closely, I'm told, watching the midterms to see as an indicator how likely long-term support against Russian aggression will be. Well, and one other big part of this is somebody who was not there in New York right now, Vladimir Putin. Michelle, can you talk a little bit about how Putin plays into all this? The Russian leader did make some news this morning regarding the war, right? Yeah, I mean, he's mobilizing more troops to go to the war. And US officials are portraying that as kind of a desperate move, because he's losing.

He did send his foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, here to the United Nations. U.S. officials are not planning to meet with him. They say that it shouldn't be business as usual with the Russians. But, you know, Lavrov's spokesperson has been out there posting pictures on social media of the many meetings that he is having, showing that from their perspective, it is kind of business as usual. And, you know, I have to say, I've noticed over the years of covering U.S.-Russian relations that the U.S. always kind of thinks it can shame Russia into behaving better. It never seems to work. I mean, Russia is facing a lot of criticism here. But many countries are also leery of the U.S. approach of pouring weapons into Ukraine, and they want to see some sort of peace talks. At the moment, the U.S. says the Russians aren't serious about talks, and that's been the problem.

And, Michelle, I'm curious what you make of something else that Vladimir Putin said today, where he seemed, if I'm not mistaken, to kind of allude to potentially nuclear military conflict. Yeah, I mean, he's been doing this kind of nuclear saber rattling since the beginning. There is a lot of alarm among U.S. officials about the potential for that. But at the moment, it seems very unlikely that he would do anything. At least that's what most experts I'm talking to are saying. As one U.S. official put it to us this week, you know, if Russia is a pariah now, just think about what it would be if it did something that dramatic in using nuclear weapons. And before we go to the break, I want to touch on U.S.-China relations. Biden made some news recently in an interview

talking about the U.S.'s willingness to defend Taiwan in the case of a Chinese military invasion. And he also referenced that in his speech today. We do not seek conflict. We do not seek a Cold War. We do not ask any nation to choose between the United States or any other partner. But the United States will be unabashed in promoting our vision of a free, open, secure, and prosperous world and what we have to offer communities and nations. So China's President Xi Jinping is not at the United Nations meeting this week. But Franco, what do we know about the U.S. efforts since Biden's comments to kind of smooth over the U.S.-China relationship? Yeah, it was interesting listening to him today. I was

definitely listening to see how he would characterize it. And not surprisingly, he did not go as far as he did in that 60 Minutes interview, where he seemed to commit US forces to go to help defend Taiwan in the event of a Chinese attack. He did reiterate, you know, the commitment to the one China policy, but he did not go so far as he did in the past interview. And Miles, I think really the way he's presenting this is kind of we're here to uphold international norms, you know, and he's contrasting that with Russia, which is violating the U.N. Charter with its war in Ukraine and China, which has given diplomatic cover to Russia here. You know, Biden's main message is the U.S. is ready to work with countries on the issues that they care about, climate change, food and energy security, combating COVID-19, health care issues. But it also has to be in the context of upholding international norms.

And that's what this place is all about. All right, time for a quick break. We'll be back in just a second. And we're back. And another key country that President Biden focused on in his speech today was Iran, which is facing a slew of anti-government protests right now. Michelle, can you just sum up the state of U.S.-Iran relations after seeing the president of Iran and then President Biden speak today? Yeah, well, I mean, basically, they've been talking indirectly about trying to revive this 2015 nuclear deal that the Trump administration left. And those talks are really at kind of an impasse right now. The Europeans who have been mediating, say, the balls in Iran's court, Iran's President Ibrahim Raisi said he wants guarantees that his country will get the sanctions relief that is supposed to come with getting back into this deal. And he had tough words today for the U.S. saying it was the U.S. that trampled on the 2015 deal. He also said he'd like to see President Trump face justice for ordering the assassination of Qasem Soleimani, a top Iranian general. But Raisi is also here at this very difficult time at home. There

were protests here in New York and at home over the death of an Iranian woman who was beaten by morality police for not wearing a proper hijab. So he talked about human rights in the floor of the General Assembly today, but it was all about Western hypocrisy about human rights. Franco, what else are you going to be watching as these meetings continue? Well, I'll definitely be watching closely for the upcoming bilateral with the new UK Prime Minister Liz Truss. They're going to be talking about their economic relationship. And of course, Biden is going to be talking about the Good Friday Agreement and making sure or speaking in favor of keeping the Good Friday Agreement as a means to maintain good relations. And I'm also curious if

there'll be any other surprises over the next day, because he's got some windows in his schedule that I'm curious if they'll be filled with other interesting meetings. One more point I want to mention is, Michelle, I'm curious for your thoughts. It seemed like in the speech, there was a lot of President Biden trying to reach out a hand to places like the Caribbean, Latin America, Africa. Did you notice that? And was that do you think that was an intentional choice? I do because I you know, I think he wants to present the global order is kind of under threat right now, right? I mean, the Russians and Chinese have their own vision of how it should work. The global order, the kind of

US led order is under threat. And I think he really wanted to show that America will be here for those countries will be here for the global south, but that there has to be some kind of rules of the game. And that means upholding the UN Charter, for starters. It's a significant deal right now, or especially now, considering many of those countries in the global South are the ones who are kind of on the sidelines with the war in Ukraine. Russia is kind of dependent on them for economics, and some of those countries are dependent on Russia, and they do not want to anger Russia. But, you know, a lot of countries, particularly the United States, is trying to get them aboard to limit international

support from Putin, because Putin points to that support as a means to say that, hey, not the whole world is behind the United States. Yeah, everyone just focuses on these sorts of partnerships a lot more in times of conflict. All right, let's leave it there for now. Michelle Kellerman, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting. I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the White House. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.