The NPR Politics Podcast - Biden Touts Senate Control After Meeting With China's Xi

Episode Date: November 14, 2022

Tensions appear lower between the U.S. and China following a meeting between the leaders of the two nations. Both described the talks as frank and productive. And Democrats held the Senate over the weekend and Republicans appear on track to have a slight majority in the House.This episode: political reporter Deepa Shivaram, White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez, China correspondent John Ruwitch, congressional correspondent Claudia Grisales, and senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro.Unlock access to this and other bonus content by supporting The NPR Politics Podcast+. Sign up via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hey, NPR Politics Podcast. This is Bill in Shanghai, China, where I'm beginning my last day of quarantine before finally returning home after almost two years in the U.S. This podcast was recorded at 11.08 a.m. Eastern Standard Time on November 14, 2022. Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but I will at last be back home with my two cats. Okay, here's the show. Good job, Bill. Congratulations. Welcome to Shanghai, Bill. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Deepa Shivaram. I cover politics. And I'm Franco Ordonez. I cover the White House.

And NPR's John Gruich is on the line from Shanghai. Hi, John. Hey there. How's it going? We got a lot to get into, guys. And Franco, you just wrapped up a long day with President Biden in Bali, where he just finished a press conference after meeting with Chinese leader Xi Jinping. I want to be clear and be clear with all leaders, but particularly with Xi Jinping, that I mean what I say and I say what I mean. So there's no misunderstanding. And these two leaders met for a little more than three hours. Franco, what was this meeting about?

You know, the meeting was an effort to put some guardrails on a relationship that has long been difficult, but particularly soured over the last year. Biden says that he had an open and candid conversation with Xi. And I was in the room for the beginning of it, which was open to the press, and both sides, you know, seemed happy. They were smiling. And they also acknowledged that the relationship was not where it should be and that there were areas that they would be willing to work together. I'd say the main goal of the meeting, as White House officials said, repeatedly was to build a floor for the relationship, you know, to prevent it from spiraling further down. You know, Biden said he made clear that he wants to compete with China,

but not have conflicts. And you mentioned that this is a relationship that has soured over time. Why is that? And was this meeting an improvement on that? It's been sour because they have so many differences over human rights, over trade, but particularly over Taiwan, which China sees as part of its territory in the United States. And Biden has made some controversial comments about Taiwan, particularly about defending Taiwan if China were to attack. The United States has diplomatic relations with China, official relations, but unofficially has relations as well with Taiwan. And in that relationship is what's made it really difficult. In regards to whether this made it, you know, easier, I'd say that's certainly the hope. You know, both sides said they wanted, you know,

that it wasn't in a place where it should be. You know, Xi himself talked about how the world was watching and that the world expects the United States and China to be able to handle their own relationship. But, you know, there are real concerns that China has about what Biden has said in the past about defending Taiwan. And I'll just note that after the meeting today, and I'm sure John can talk more about this, but a spokeswoman for the Chinese government said that instead of talking in one way and acting in another, that's a quote, the United States needs to honor its commitments with concrete action. So I think there's reason for some skepticism as well. Yeah, let me just say one thing very quickly on Taiwan. readout that came through state media. Apparently in the meeting, Xi Jinping told Joe Biden that the Taiwan issue is the number one uncrossable red line in the relationship. And going into this,

Biden had said he wanted to explore what the red lines were on both sides. So I think Xi Jinping made it pretty clear what his biggest red line is. That's interesting. And this all comes at a moment when Xi Jinping has really secured his position as China's leader. Talk a little bit about that. Xi Jinping, as you say, he enters this meeting at a level of power that no Chinese leader has had really since Mao was in charge of the country. There was a party congress last month. These things happen once every five years.

And Xi Jinping basically ran the table. He got a third term. These are five-year terms. As party boss, he's the most powerful man in China, he pushed rivals out and he surrounded himself with loyalists and allies. So he's undisputed for the most part. And that gives him leeway to drive the country in the direction that he wants and not only face the country in the direction he wants, but will he'll have minimal resistance or sort of friction from the other leaders around him, right? At least that's the understanding. So nobody thinks we're going to see any massive directional changes that goes for foreign policy as well. But I guess the transmission of his vision of what policy should be and where it should head is going to be potentially smoother.

And both of you, I want to ask John and Franco, what are you watching here going forward between this relationship of Biden and Xi Jinping as the G20 wraps up and moving ahead? What are you looking out for? For Chinese leaders, you know, yes, things have been bad in the China-U.S. relationship for a few years. But managing relationship with the US is a key part of the job. It's really important. Xi Jinping has perhaps been tougher than his predecessors in some ways. But I think one thing that we can take away from this meeting is that it shows that he knows that he has an interest in keeping China-US relations from going off the rails. So there are a few reasons for this. One, I would say, is that China needs the U.S. economically and for key technologies.

You know, the Biden administration recently implemented some measures that cut China's ability to acquire the most cutting edge microchips. But that's just the bleeding edge. There's a lot of other things China needs and wants from the U.S. And I guess the second one is also that Xi Jinping faces major challenges at home. Domestically, there's been a crackdown on indebted property developers and the real estate sector. The zero COVID policies that Xi Jinping has been pushing and has backed for months and months and months have really taken a toll on

the economy. And they're just starting to sort of work through those issues. Smoothing things out a little bit with the US might help him to address some of the domestic issues he faces. I mean, I would say what I've been looking for is kind of like the follow through from the Biden administration and from the White House. I mean, we've heard, you know, this kind of talk before about wanting to manage this relationship. And, you know, it's just sometimes it sounds a little bit repetitive. Yes, of course, this was their first in-person meeting, and that is significant in and of itself. But one of the things that they said they were committing to was that they were going to keep this conversation going. So I'll be very interested to watch the follow through. Will there be another in-person meeting? Will there be

more diplomacy going on and moving forward? And will we see, for example, some of the things that were cut off, such as climate talks and other counter-narcotics conversations, if those will be restarted as well? I think that'll be another sign that things are getting a little bit back to where at least they were. Yeah, we'll be watching that as well and getting reporting from both of you. All right, John and Franco, thank you so much. And we're going to let the two of you go. Thank you. Thanks. And when we get back, we'll check on where things stand in the U.S. elections. And we're back with Claudia Casales and Domenico Montanaro. Hey, guys. Hey there. Hey. So we're taping this part of the podomenico Montanaro. Hey, guys. Hey there.

Hey. So we're taping this part of the pod a little later in the day. It's a little afternoon right now. And I want to talk about where things stand with control of Congress. We are still talking about the midterm elections. And, Domenico, Democrats, thanks to a win in Nevada this weekend, have retained control of the Senate. How do things look? Well, it's quite the eventful weekend. I mean, having the Senate called was maybe not as expected as what happened, but there it is. And Democrats retaining the Senate is a big deal because, you know, having the Senate

means that, you know, President Biden is going to be able to continue to sort of reshape the federal judiciary. And there's going to be a lot more focus now, if Republicans do pick up a slim majority in the House, which is where it looks like it's headed, that they're going to have a tough time legislating and anything that they produce is almost certainly going to be far too conservative, legislation wise for a Democratic led Senate. On the House side of things, this still looks like it's tilting towards Republicans, right? Yeah, and very much up in the air right now. There are 19 uncalled races. If you were to give where everyone is leading currently, we're looking at a 222 to 213 Republican majority, which means that Republicans could lose just four members of their conference to be able to pass any legislation. And as Claudia knows, with all of the sort of hardline conservatives in the House, it's going to be really tough to kind of keep them all on board. I mean John Boehner, the former Republican speaker, used to call it trying to keep 218 frogs in a wheelbarrow. I don't know what Kevin McCarthy will call it if it's Kevin McCarthy at all to be speaker. Right. This is going to be a very

tricky situation. Yeah, I don't know if it's frogs or the analogy moves on to a different kind of animal there, but it's going to be really difficult. This is a bit of a nightmare scenario for McCarthy in terms of what they were planning. They had grand plans for all these investigations and all of this legislation. And who knows, A, if McCarthy, he can pull this out in the end, and B, what those plans look like with such a slim, slim majority. And also, it's a very tricky week. There's new member orientation this week. There are literally members who are attending this orientation this week, like Andrea Salinas out of Oregon's 6th congressional district that's a new district, who don't know if they've been elected yet. So it's tricky all around, and we'll see what happens this week. And there's lots of very close races right now, too. I mean, five of these races of

the 19 are within just one point, and four more are within three. So we could see some shifts in other directions here. And, you know, if Democrats do pick up, you know, maybe another seat or two of those, even that they could still retain the majority. But that seems like that is largely slipping away, if not already, right, Domenico? Well, yeah. I mean, they had one race over the weekend that sort of went back into the Republican column that Democrats had been leading in in Arizona. So that made it a little bit tougher. Democrats have to almost run a perfect sweep to be able to pull off a majority. But the fact that we're even talking about the possibility that Democrats could even have an even outside chance at holding the majority these many days after Election Day is quite something. And I want to ask quickly to both of you,

if you could talk a little bit about what for Democrats, you know, what gets let go of now that it looks like the House is not going to go in their favor as expected and maybe some of the top priorities for Republicans. Yeah, I think this makes it a very chaotic lame duck, if you will, in terms of what Democrats need to take care of if they do indeed lose control of the House. And, for example, one area focused on is a January 6th panel. They're going to be in that much more of a rush. They do sunset by year end, but they could have looked at the possibility of picking up new efforts next year. Had they retained control, so that's going to be a rush to the finish line for them. They have a lot to do, put out a final report.

And then they have to take care of government funding. That's a big deal that they need to handle. And a very long list, like you mentioned, in terms of addressing Roe v. Wade that they will not get to come next year. So House Democrats could very well be playing on the defense when it comes to a lot of the legislative priorities that they were fighting for, that they won't be able to fight for, and that they'll be fighting Republicans on when it comes to when the House chamber finally gets settled. And Democratic Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said it's up to Republicans now to abandon the sort of MAGA extreme and to, you know, let the more moderate Republicans in the Senate, you know, compromise with the majority of Democrats, I mean, I'd say fat chance of that happening, right?

So I think that we're going to be stuck somewhat with very minor things, if anything, over the next couple of years, starting in January, that might come out of Congress and be signed by President Biden. Yeah, we're going to have to keep an eye on all of that. We're going to leave it there for today. I'm Deepa Shivaram. I cover politics. I'm Claudia Grisales. I cover Congress. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.