The NPR Politics Podcast - Brittney Griner, American Jailed In Russia, Freed In Prisoner Swap

Episode Date: December 8, 2022

Griner, a prominent basketball player, had been convicted of bringing hash oil into the country. President Biden secured Griner's release by commuting the sentence of Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout. The president said Russia refused to release other Americans imprisoned in the country, including former Marine Paul Whelan who Russia convicted of espionage in 2018.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This is Jessica Gonzalez in Los Angeles, California, where I'm currently working on an article for the Daily Bruin UCLA School newspaper. This podcast was recorded at 12.07 p.m. Eastern Standard Time on Thursday, the 8th of December. Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but I will most likely still be taking notes from the NPR Politics podcast to improve my journalism skills. Okay, here's the show. Love student journalism. Love Okay, here's the show. Love student journalism. Love it, love it. I wrote for the Daily Cal, you know, maybe rival student newspaper to the Daily Bruin.

Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. I'm Franco Ordonez. I also cover the White House. And Charles Mainz is here with us from Russia. Hey, Charles. Hi there. So this morning, President Biden announced that WNBA star

Brittany Griner has been freed from a Russian prison. She's safe. She's on a plane. She's on her way home. After months of being unjustly detained in Russia, held under intolerable circumstances, Brittany will soon be back in the arms of her loved ones, and she should have been there all along. Biden made the announcement with Greiner's wife, Sherelle Greiner, by his side at the White House. So over the last nine months, y'all have been so privy to one of the darkest moments of

my life. And so today I'm just standing here overwhelmed with emotions. But the most important emotion that I have right now is just sincere gratitude for President Biden and his entire administration. Brittany Greiner was released in a prisoner swap with Russia for the Russian arms dealer Victor Boot, known as the Merchant of Death. What was this prisoner exchange? And do we know where Greiner is now? It was a one-for-one prisoner exchange. Greiner was swapped for convicted Russian arms trader Victor Boot. And Biden signed, actually, an order cutting short his 25-year sentence. Biden talked to Greiner from the Oval Office along with Greiner's wife, Sherelle, this morning after she had left Russia. Biden said that

she would be back in about 24 hours. Yeah. And the exchange, as we understand it, Charles, took place in the United Arab Emirates on a tarmac. Yeah. You know, we heard from in Moscow, anyway, we heard this from Russia's foreign ministry. They issued a statement to their social media accounts saying that the swap had taken place at the Abu Dhabi airport after what they called lengthy negotiations. In its statement, the foreign ministry also kind of flipped the script a bit. It said it was Russia that had been trying for so long for this moment to free Viktor But and said they were glad he was now on his way home.

Other Russian officials later clarified that this deal went through because both President Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin had issued pardons. So Viktor But is this convicted arms dealer. Brittany Greiner was detained because she brought some vape cartridges into Russia? Yeah, you know, this case started back in February. Greiner arrived into Moscow. She was arriving to Russia to play in the off-season of the WNBA. She plays in the Russian Women's League here and has for several years.

And she arrived and she, but basically customs agents found vape cartridges containing some hash oil in her luggage. She admitted that, in fact, she had brought this in by accident, later testified in court that this was medicinal. It was actually issued, prescribed by a U.S. doctor for pain in her back and knees. But of course, it's an illegal substance here in Russia. She was sentenced to nine or nine and a half years if you can consider the detention period as well. Russians certainly seemed as though this case was politicized. It was all unfolding against the war in Ukraine where obviously the U.S. and Russia have vast differences.

And so it seemed like it was kind of mirroring the events that were happening relative to the conflict in Ukraine. And that's why there was so much pressure on Biden to kind of secure her release. I mean, he was under increasing pressure from all different avenues, from the athletes, from celebrities, from other politicians. I mean, it was really tough, especially back in the summer when she sent him a letter, a handwritten letter saying, quote, I'm terrified I might be here forever. There was a lot of sympathy for Greiner and a lot, a big, big push. I mean, at the White House, Tam, you, I, a lot of us were often asking the administration questions about progress on Greiner's release. Oftentimes, you know, it was hard to get information and it did

not seem it was going well in many cases. And, you know, in the last few weeks, Biden said that he hoped after the midterms, Putin would be more open to talking about a prisoner swap. And that's apparently what happened. Trevor Burrus Franco, it's really interesting because in Russia, it felt as though certainly the Kremlin was well aware of the pressure that Biden was under to free Greiner, and that was incentive not to free her. And in terms of why now, I mean, I think we can only guess, but one aspect here is certainly that Greiner's final appeal was rejected by a Russian court, and she began serving out her term formally in this prison colony in Mordova. This is about 300 miles south of Moscow, but certainly not one of Russia's brighter spots, let's put it that way. You know, and the U.S. had been pushing for this trade for months,

but Russian officials were saying it could only happen when the trial and the appeals were complete. So, you know, no doubt Moscow enjoyed the pressure on the Biden administration over this issue. But it seems as though that once the trial was open, that seemed to open the door to these negotiations. And here we are. Well, and over the summer, the administration in the U.S. had gone public saying we made this very serious offer and Russia isn't talking to us or isn't considering it. So I guess there's been a lot happening under the surface here. Right. And again, though, I mean, I'm no professional poker player, but it seems to me that if you're trying to get someone out, letting the Russians, the Russians were certainly aware of how badly the U.S. wanted this deal. And that, I think, gave some incentive, given the politics of the moment over Ukraine, over U.S.-Russian relations, to stall. Right. We're going to take a quick break and more in a second about the other American who wasn't released. And we're back. And while there has been a lot of joy about Brittany Griner being released,

being on her way home, there's also a bittersweet element to this that even Greiner's wife, Sherelle, mentioned in her remarks at the White House, which is that another high-profile American detainee in Russia, Paul Whelan, who served in the Marines, and he's now 52 years old. He's been in prison for several years now in Russia. He was not released. The U.S. had wanted him to be part of this deal, and ultimately he wasn't. Franco, has the White House explained what happened? Yeah, the White House did not include Paul Whelan, and they were very clear that this was not an option, that they worked very hard to get Whelan's release. But it became clearer and clearer as the negotiations went on that they didn't have that opportunity. The officials that spoke to us today after Biden's announcement said it was not a choice between which American to bring home.

It was a choice between bringing home one particular American, Brittany Griner, or bringing zero Americans home. And Biden addressed that himself, too. Sadly, for totally illegitimate reasons, Russia is treating Paul's case differently than Britney's. And while we have not yet succeeded in securing Paul's release, we are not giving up. We will never give up. Charles, President Biden mentioned this idea that Russia sees Paul Whelan differently

than Russia saw Britney Griner. Can you explain that? Yeah, I think so. I mean, you know, Whelan is serving out a 16-year prison term after being convicted for espionage. This was back in 2020. In fact, I had attended portions of that trial. Whelan at the time called it famously a goat rodeo. He had these kind of colorful words for it. The U.S. has made no secret that they thought this was a sham trial. But, you know, from the Russian perspective, it's a more serious crime. Now, we, of course, have to say that, you know, comparing the, you know, trading a convicted arms dealer for Brittany Griner, who was convicted for carrying this small amount of an illegal substance, also doesn't seem like quite a fair trade.

But from the Russian perspective, again, Whelan is the more serious crime here. And, you know, Biden did say that while it's going to be possibly more difficult without having kind of boot as a chip to negotiate with, Biden did make clear that they were going to continue to work for Whelan's release. And they were very conscious to the concerns about Whelan. I mean, a U.S. official also said that they visited Whelan's sister on Wednesday to share the news on Greiner's release. And Biden has also committed to speaking with Whelan's family in the near future. And what has the reaction from his family been?

This certainly must be a disappointment. So we heard from Whelan's brother, David Whelan, who issued a statement to the press. He expressed joy over Greiner's release. He said U.S. officials had warned them in advance, unlike when the U.S. did a trade for another Marine, Trevor Reed. This was earlier this year. He said that Biden had made the right decision, David Whelan's words, to make the deal that was possible rather than the one that wasn't, but said, no, make no mistake, this was disappointing. And for Paul Whelan, who sits in a jail in Moldovia right now in Russia, he called it a catastrophe.

Frank, I have to say that I think you and I have both covered several of these stories before of detained Americans or hostages being released as part of deals. And these are always incredibly complicated stories where there's this mix of joy at someone getting to come home, along with questions of whether the trades were worth it. And clearly that's hanging over this today as well. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's always a concern that this could encourage the imprisonment of other Americans abroad, that it could lead to this happening more. What would stop officials in other countries that are adversaries to do the same thing? And we asked officials that today, and they said that the exchange for boot should not be interpreted as a normal practice, that it is

done from time to time. There is precedent for it, as you noted. And it's done in cases where they felt that there's no alternatives. What I did find interesting today was that the officials, you know, said that they felt a moral obligation to take action, as well as a policy obligation to bring folks like Greiner home. And they kind of flipped the script a little bit when they're kind of thinking through this themselves. They told us that they start with the question of how is it acceptable for someone like Brittany Greiner to be put through these what they called sham proceedings and forced to spend time in a Russian penal colony under horrible circumstances

that she does not deserve. And they said that they regard that as unacceptable first, and then they take steps to how can they remedy that. And they try to give up as the least amount possible. And that's what they say they did. You know, I think there's a reason they call it hostage diplomacy. You know, this is coming down to the fact that both sides see Victor, like the Russians certainly see Victor Buttigieg wrongfully detained, despite his track record as an arms dealer. And a trial in the U.S. justice system. They had a trial in the U.S. justice system, but he was given 25 years because of a minimum mandatory sentence. Even our colleague Michael Sullivan did a piece where the judge who sentenced him said she didn't feel he deserved quite that much. And certainly there's a sense from the Russian side

that it's a classic example of what they call sort of a U.S. overreach. In other words, pursuing citizens of other countries and third countries. Victor Boot was arrested in Thailand before being extradited back to the United States. So for them, they see this as an example of that. And certainly, I think there's no question that these cases, like Brittney Griner, are used as leverage. We're going to leave it there for today. Charles Maines, thank you so much for joining us on the pod. Hey, thanks so much. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

I'm Frank Ordonez. I also cover the White House. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.