The NPR Politics Podcast - Can Harris Win Over "Uncommitted" Voters Worried About Gaza?

Episode Date: August 14, 2024

President Biden saw a groundswell of protest during the Democratic primary as hundreds of thousands of voters concerned about the administration's response to Israel's war in Gaza voted "uncommitted." But some of the movements most prominent voices are tentatively warming to Kamala Harris, though they say there is still more work to be done.This episode: senior White House correspondent Tamara Keith, White House correspondent Asma Khalid, and national political correspondent Don Gonyea.The podcast is produced by Casey Morell and Kelli Wessinger. Our intern is Bria Suggs. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Listen to every episode of the NPR Politics Podcast sponsor-free, unlock access to bonus episodes with more from the NPR Politics team, and support public media when you sign up for The NPR Politics Podcast+ at plus.npr.org/politics.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Emily, and I am currently enjoying watching the sunrise as I walk my dog along a Jersey shoreline. This podcast was recorded at 12.35 p.m. on Wednesday, August 14th. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but I'll still be enjoying the sand between my toes and the salt air on my lungs as I take in this beautiful beach day. Enjoy. I believe that salt air and salt water cures literally everything. She has figured something out we have not. As we sit in these studios. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

I'm Asma Khalid. I also cover the White House. And I'm Don Gagn I cover the White House. I'm Asma Khalid. I also cover the White House. And I'm Don Gagne, national political correspondent. Today on the show, Vice President Kamala Harris, Gaza, and the uncommitted movement. Don, you've been doing some reporting on this. So first off, just remind us what the uncommitted movement is. Right. It started in Michigan ahead of the February presidential primary. It's Arab-American and Muslim voters, but also progressives and younger voters, a lot of college students. arms transfers to Israel need to stop. And because Biden had no real competition in the Democratic primary, people were asked to cast a ballot marked uncommitted to send a message. 100,000 of them did so in Michigan. That was 13%. Also a meaningful number because Biden's victory in Michigan in the 2020 election was only 154,000 votes. So this is a big chunk of that.

The uncommitted movement was born. They continued on to other states and they did well enough around the country to even win delegates to the Democratic Convention. Which means that they will be attending the Democratic Convention, which is why finding out what they're thinking and where they stand now is actually pretty important and interesting. And Don, you spoke to some of the leaders of that movement. Where are they on Harris? Right. They see Harris's emergence as the Democratic nominee replacing Biden as an opportunity for a reset after, again, much frustration with President Biden. I attended a press conference last week that they held in Dearborn at a coffee shop on the same day, actually just hours before Vice President Harris was to hold her first big rally in the Detroit area.

Again, this was last week. They found out after their press conference, in fact, after I talked to them there, that they were going to be able to have a backstage meeting with Harris before the rally. It wasn't a big meeting. It was basically a spot in the receiving line, but it meant they were going to be able to shake her hands, look her in the eye, introduce themselves, and have, what, maybe 30 seconds, maybe a minute max to kind of make their case. So one of those who was there, he was at the press conference. He met with Harris in that receiving line. He's one of the organizers. His

name is Abbas Alawia. Listen to him talk about what happened. I asked her, will you meet with us so that we can discuss an arms embargo? And the vice president was very quick to say, I'd really like that. And we took the photo and I said, thank you so much. So you can hear that there's a positive tone there. Again, Tam, though, it was a commitment from Harris that he got only to keep talking, not on any specific policies or anything, but to keep talking, and they see that as important. And Asma, Harris's team was pretty quick to clarify what her position is on the idea of an arms embargo. That's right. Vice President Harris, we've been told, does not support an arms

embargo to Israel. But, you know, what I think is has been the real big distinction between seeing her at the top of the ticket from when Joe Biden was at the top is this change in tone, in rhetoric. And, you know, there have been a couple of key moments of this. There was that speech that she delivered some months ago in Selma, Alabama, that got a lot of attention because she just spoke in detail about people in Gaza not having enough to eat. Then there was this moment she spoke after meeting Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu just recently, and she referred to seeing images of dead children, desperate, hungry people. And what I hear from folks within the uncommitted movement, Arab American voters, Muslim voters, people who had largely become very disenchanted with Biden,

is they feel like she gets it to some degree, that there is a sense that she at least understands and empathizes with what is going on. This was a big point of criticism that I heard about President Biden for some months from Arab Americans, is that they don't feel he has shown an equal degree of empathy for Palestinian lives that have been lost. And this is about, you know, tone, rhetoric. It's also about policy. But I remember there was an interview I did with a doctor who met in a small group private setting with the president during Ramadan, a meeting that she had. And after she came out of that meeting, she told me that she did not feel like the president could show empathy in the same way for Palestinians. And that, to me, is the distinction I've been hearing.

So I also think that what was really notable about that meeting, just in a photo line, but that these uncommitted leaders, are leading opposition were invited backstage to meet with the vice president. And I think that is it's the fact that she's holding these large rallies. You know, I remember speaking to someone that attended the very large rally she had early on in Atlanta. And this is someone who said to me in passing that they hadn't been to a rally in quite some time because they didn't think they could get through the screening process to attend anything that Joe Biden was doing. And, you know, Joe Biden was holding these very small, intimate events. There was quite a screening process for these. And, you know, Joe Biden was holding these very small, intimate events. There was quite a screening process for these. And Harris is holding very large events, you know,

well over 10,000 people. And so there is a sense that people who attend these events may not all agree with her. But I think that there is an openness to at least having this dialogue and conversation. Also, if you're having a rally with 15,000 people, a handful of protesters is a much smaller problem than if you're having an event with 500 people. And Tam, there were indeed protesters at that rally, pro-Palestinian activists who started chanting and they disrupted Harris during, you know, what was her campaign speech. She was just kind of like getting into a passage about Project 2025 and all the threats that that would pose. And then you could hear the pro-Palestinian chants. And here's what she did. First, she let it play out for a moment.

She kind of paused and let it go. And then when it persisted, she finally did cut them off with this. You know what? If you want Donald Trump to win, then say that. Otherwise, I'm speaking. She also gave a look. It was a look that said, like, I'm done. But, Tam, that look, I think, translated differently in different communities because,

you know, I think there were folks who saw Harris as having this real sort of moment of power here, quieting down the conversation. But that snippet also in social media within, you know, aspects of the Arab-American community, folks who have been really disenchanted with Biden did not translate well. And I think that's why we've seen Harris sort of moderate how she's handled protests moving forward. Yeah, I mean, she has very much toned it down from there. But in a way that she was, I don't know, speaking her truth, saying at this point, it's a binary choice. This is a general election. It isn't the primary anymore. All right, we're going to take a quick break. And when we get back, more on how uncommitted voters are responding to Harris's campaign. And we're back. And Don, you've spoken to several voters who were uncommitted,

who voted uncommitted in their state's primaries. What are they saying now? Well, remember, Uncommitted was for the primary. The general election is a different story. And what we heard from people is kind of a mixed bag. I've heard everything from elation and support for Harris, but I've also heard people say they can't vote for Trump or Harris because both parties, both candidates are simply in the wrong place. I also heard a lot of comments like this one from Michigan voter Jill Schlitt. She's glad Harris, she says, is at least using tougher rhetoric with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. But I would feel a lot better voting for her if she did follow up with those words that she spoke to Netanyahu about and came out in favor of something that

respects the right to live of the Palestinian people. So you can hear in her voice as she's trying to figure it out. She kind of knows what she wants to do, but she's not quite there yet. This level of cautious optimism is something I've also been hearing, Don, you know, in conversations I've had with some people in Pennsylvania and in Georgia. And I do think that there are, you know, divergent opinions within those folks who did vote uncommitted. I was speaking with Salima Suswell. She's an African-American woman from Philly who runs this organization called the Black Muslim Leadership Council Fund. And they've come out and officially endorsed Harris as of this month. So she told me that she has appreciated the VP's change in tone and rhetoric on Gaza from what she saw earlier on.

But she also told me that there's domestic concerns that her community has, that a number of Black Muslims in this country face, that she thinks Harris will be better equipped to deal with than her opponent, Donald Trump. And I guess that is worth noting that while there are some single issue voters, there are also a lot of voters who are taking in the entire context, you know, of lots of issues and not just this one issue. That's right. And I do hear from voters a deep concern about what might happen with the Supreme Court, what might happen with reproductive rights. At the same time, though, I will say that the war in Gaza has exposed a deep division in the Democratic Party that I would argue

we haven't seen on really, frankly, any other issue this election cycle in the same way that is dividing the party itself. And I think the Harris campaign is attuned to that. We've learned that the Harris campaign is bringing on a dedicated person to lead outreach to Muslim and Arab American voters. She starts the job today. And to me, just bringing her on is a recognition to the fact that they do think that there is work to do and that they need to try to strategize and reach these voters in a distinct way because, you know, the approach that the Biden campaign was using for a number of months was not effective. Well, and because nothing is simple, they also are bringing on someone to liaise with the Jewish community, because in terms of just pure politics, this

issue that is dividing Democrats is a real challenge. And there are pro-Israel Democrats who see it differently than some of the uncommitted voters. And Republicans are eagerly trying to drive a wedge and portray Harris as weak on Israel. You know, when you have a big tent, as the Democratic Party does, there are competing coalitions. That's right. There are certainly competing coalitions within the Democratic Party on this issue. You know, that being said, I think there's a lot of unknowns in the weeks ahead.

We've been tracking this idea that the administration is really pushing urgently for a ceasefire hostage deal. There are talks that are expected to take place this week in the Middle East. But there's also potential threats of a retaliatory attack from Iran and what may happen if this war escalates into a wider regional conflict. And really, Tam, I mean, this seems to be almost timeline wisewise tracking with the Democratic convention that is kicking off next week in Chicago. Cook County, home to Chicago, has the largest population of Palestinian Americans in the country. I just think there are a lot, a lot of unknowns. And frankly, this is different than a lot of policy issues because

the voters I talk to see this as a deeply moral issue. They think it's bigger than just sheer policy. Right. Don, how do you think this might play out? How do you think the uncommitted voters and delegates might make themselves known? And certainly we're also expecting protests, right? We know they will make themselves known. That we know for certain. There will be protests outside. We can expect them to be large, visible, and very heated. We know that there will be uncommitted delegates inside. We should not be surprised to see protests break out on the inside of the convention hall. And as Asma said, there are real world events that could be playing out in real time as the convention takes place next week. All right. Well, we will leave it there for now.

And just a quick programming note. Next week is the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. We will be in your feeds late all next week bringing the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. We will be in your feeds late all next week, bringing coverage from the convention. I'm Tamara Keith, I cover the White House. I'm Asma Khalid, I also cover the White House. And I'm Don Gagne, National Political Correspondent. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.