The NPR Politics Podcast - Democrats Are Running Out Of Time To Negotiate On Major Priorities

Episode Date: September 24, 2021

Congressional Democrats are trying to wrap up negotiations on their reconciliation package, fund the government, and deal with the debt ceiling. But with looming deadlines with big consequences, someone is going to have to compromise. The big question: who's it going to be? Plus, bipartisan talks over police reform legislation officially came up empty handed.This episode: White House correspondent Ayesha Rascoe, congressional correspondent Kelsey Snell, and political correspondent Juana Summers.Connect:Subscribe to the NPR Politics Podcast here.Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Listen to our playlist The NPR Politics Daily Workout.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio station.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Jaime Perez Pineda from Long Beach, California. I just finished booking my first trip to Europe. After being eight years on DACA, I finally have my green card and I'm able to travel abroad. This message was recorded at 1221 p.m. on September 24th, 2021. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but my husband and I will still be celebrating this milestone. All right, here's the show. Congratulations. Yeah, that is wonderful.

Have a great trip. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Aisha Roscoe. I cover the White House. I'm Juana Summers. I cover politics. And I'm Kelsey Snell. I cover Congress. So this week, there has been a lot going on, and I cover politics, and I'm confused. I mean, you have every right to be confused. So in Congress, there is this, people keep talking about a $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill. And then there's this, like, infrastructure bill5 trillion reconciliation bill. And then there's this like infrastructure bill, plain infrastructure bill. And then people are talking about funding the government and the

debt ceiling. And there are all these things and factions. So Kelsey, can you just kind of break down first, like, what are all those different things? And why are we talking about them right now? So we have a couple of different things happening all at the same time. One thing, I think the most pressing thing and the thing with the most real deadline is that the government is going to run out of funding next week at the end of the day on Thursday. So at the end of September, the fiscal year ends, And Congress has not extended current spending levels, though everybody, almost everybody in Congress agrees they need to do that. Problem that they're facing is that Democrats decided to include a suspension of the debt

limit. So for people who don't really understand this totally makes sense. But the debt limit is basically Congress has to go and set how much the country's allowed to borrow. It's a cap on borrowing set by Congress. Now, they're getting close to that cap. And the government has been doing what is known as extraordinary measures, things to kind of stretch out how long they could keep making payments on the debt without having to address it. We expect that sometime mid-October, they're going to run out of extraordinary measures. And if they don't suspend the debt limit, well, then the country has a possibility of defaulting on its debts, which could be pretty catastrophic for the economy. Okay, so those two things have

become linked, right? We're all good? Got it. Yes. Okay, I got that. Okay. So separately, over in this other little, you know, corner of Congress, they, Democrats are trying to pass a three and a half trillion dollar spending bill using a thing called budget reconciliation that allows them to kind of go around the filibuster in the Senate to pass a bill with only votes from Democrats. Problem that they're running into there is that, well, they can't get all the Democrats in the party to agree on what should be in that bill, or even if it should be three and a half trillion dollars. Now, these two things kind of get related, because Republicans are saying that they won't vote for the debt limit increase as part of the spending bill to

keep the government open. And they want Democrats to use the same tools they're using for the new three and a half trillion dollars in spending to take care of the debt limit all on their own. And so there are two completely different standoffs happening that have become completely mixed. So you have Democrats fighting among Democrats about their big spending package, and Democrats and Republicans fighting about the debt limit. And you know, the way things are set up right now, they have deadlines on all of that next week. So Kelsey, I haven't been on the Hill regularly for a number of years, but I've heard a lot of talk recently from Democratic leaders Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer talking about a final framework that they've agreed on for that reconciliation

package, but I'm not quite clear on what that exactly means. Well, there's a good reason for not being quite clear on that because we haven't actually seen what this final framework is. They announced a framework, but then didn't give us any details about it. The closest I got to detail was that it was going to be a menu of options for ways to pay for whatever spending bill they agree to. And if that sounds really vague, that's because it absolutely is really vague. The only thing we really know about this menu of options is that Democrats have basically decided, the leadership of the House and the Senate and the White House, have agreed on kind of a mix and match list of different tax and fee and revenue

raising policies that they could kind of blend together, mix up however they need to in order to pay for spending up to three and a half trillion dollars. So once they decide on how much they're going to spend, well, then they can go and kind of add all of the bits and pieces of fees and taxes and revenue raisers to take care of that. Does that make sense? As much sense as anything on the Hill does. Yeah, yeah. I mean, nothing is ever straightforward. One thing I will say is this is actually not an uncommon way to take care of legislation that is Nothing is ever straightforward. different for Democrats to then say, okay, we like this policy, and we want to raise taxes on our own constituents to pay for it. Those are differently difficult conversations. Kelsey, it seems to me

like this is, if you take all of these things together, we're talking about a lot of things that are a huge part, not just of the agenda that candidate Biden ran on, but also, you know, he ran as somebody who kind of projected this return to normalcy that Washington would work as it should. This doesn't necessarily sound to me like Washington working as it should. It sounds like we're kind of in this governing from crises to crises mode yet again. Yeah. And that is one thing that I think a lot of Democrats are worried about is they basically feel like they need to deliver on all of the things that are in this package. And they can't agree on even some of the things that

are in this package. It's really, I mean, they are in a serious bind here. And like you said, this is basically the bulk of Biden's domestic agenda here that they're talking about. This is the Democratic agenda, right? Like, right. If they don't get this passed, next year is midterms, you're not going to get anything passed. They're weighing between getting something done and nothing. I would imagine maybe some have different ideas on what matters to them. Maybe some would rather get nothing than to get something that's too small. Yeah, I mean, there are a number of progressive members who say that they committed to doing much more than this and that they don't want to than to get something that's too small. Yeah, I mean, there are a number of progressive members

who say that they committed to doing much more than this and that they don't want to agree to some watered-down version. This is kind of the central tension for Democrats, right, is that they were elected as this big tent party, as they always said during the election, that they were proud to be a party that had fiscal moderates and progressives who all shared common ideals and goals about policy. But that is, you know, a double-edged sword.

The flip side of agreeing on the policies but not necessarily the fiscal approach is that you can't really get policy passed in Congress if you don't have some agreement on how to pay for it, if you've decided that you're going to pay for it. Your options are either drive up the debt or pay for it. And this is the bind that Democrats kind of there's going to be some brinksmanship, there's going to be some standoffs, and there are going to be some deadlines. Is there anything in particular that you're looking out for? People are going to have to give if they want to move any of these bills forward. And a lot of people have made very, very, very firm commitments that will be very difficult to walk away from. And I'm going to be watching exactly how and who, exactly who moves and exactly how they do it. All right, let's take a quick break. And when we get back, attempts at police reform legislation have stalled out. And we're back. So we were talking about this make or break moment earlier for all these financial things that are coming up, but there

was this kind of make or break moment this week around police reform. After the death of George Floyd last summer, there were these huge protests and Democrats and Republicans really said that they would try to work on getting some type of legislation passed. And that didn't happen last year, but they picked it up again this year. But instead of being made, it seems like the talks broke down this week, right, Juana? Yeah, that's right. We learned this week that the parties are parting ways and there hasn't been a deal. Like you said, these negotiations had been going on for months after the killing of George Floyd in May 2020. And I have to say that both Republicans and Democrats that I had been speaking to at the time were very eager to find a bipartisan compromise after the national outcry that we all

saw to address the broader issue of racism in this country. Wanda, can you give us a sense of why the talks broke down? Why those talks broke down really depends on who you ask. Two of the leading Democratic negotiators, Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey and Congresswoman Karen Bass of California, essentially made the point that they kept compromising, they kept paring back what their ask was, what they wanted to do, but that Republicans continued to seek more concessions, to seek more compromises, and at a certain point, there just wasn't enough there to make it work. Take a listen to what Karen Bass told our colleagues at Morning Edition. The signals that we were getting from Senator Scott was

very, very hopeful, very encouraging. And I felt that we were definitely going to get there. I was optimistic up until about the last month. So some optimism there from Congresswoman Bass. She says talks just broke down over the last month. But if you talk to Senator Scott of South Carolina, who was leading negotiations for Republicans, he says Democrats walked away from the table. He blamed Democrats. He said that this was all about what he described as a push to defund law enforcement that made it impossible to agree on any reasonable legislation. He says he's going to keep working on this. And just to point out and be super clear here, Congresswoman Bass and Senator Booker have both rejected the notion that he's talking about this idea of slashing police departments' budgets.

Just to be really clear, in the versions of this bill that existed beforehand, Democrats were actually increasing money for police, right? Yeah, that's absolutely right. It seems like one of the big sticking points here when you talk to people involved with the process is the issue of qualified immunity. It's a legal doctrine. Democrats wanted to see officers face expanded civil or criminal accountability. And that's something that was a non-starter for many Republicans as well as law enforcement unions. This issue of police reform was something that was very important to civil rights groups, very important to people of color, and it has now crumbled. Voting rights is facing a very uphill battle to get anything done. Juana, it seems like there is some frustration right now about these objectives not getting any traction. Yeah, I think that's fair to say. And frankly, that frustration is being aired pretty openly these days. When I talk to civil rights leaders and voting rights activists in

particular, they remind me of something that then candidate Biden said when I covered his campaign. When Black voters essentially resurrected his campaign in South Carolina, he promised that he would have the backs of Black Americans. He spoke candidly a number of times during the campaign about the debt that he owed to the African-American community, who are a loyal constituency for Democrats, but also so key to Biden's own campaign. And some civil rights leaders were openly saying, now, they're just not sure if that's true. Now, if you talk to folks in the administration, as you know, Ayesha, they will point to a number of things that the administration has done on issues such as this. They talk about that big speech that

President Biden gave in Philadelphia, tolling the test of voting rights being the test of our time and speaking about it with such urgency. They'll point to actions at the Department of Justice and elsewhere to combat the scourge of gun violence in this country, which we know disproportionately impacts communities of color. But these activists say that they want to see the president stick his neck out more and for Democrats in Congress to do more to make sure that these things become law. And a big thing that they talk about a lot and that Kelsey probably hears a lot about, this is probably going to add a lot more fuel to the fire and a lot more pressure on House and Senate Democrats to get rid of the Senate filibuster so that the party can pass things like voting rights or policing reform on a simple majority vote, something that is probably

unlikely to happen given that not even all Democrats agree with it. Yeah, I mean, that was, I'm glad you bring that up because that was one of the things I was going to mention is that, you know, this isn't like the, you know, the spending bill we were talking about before. It can't be done in reconciliation. They can't do anything to get around the filibuster for police reform. So this is one of those things where they either have to reform the filibuster or get rid of it if they want to get it passed with this current makeup of Congress? This is something where Biden and White House officials will say that they really wanted police reform passed. And they say now that this, you know, now that these talks have failed, that they're going to look at their other options. They're going to look at what could be done via executive order, whether there are other ways to get legislation passed. But there really isn't a whole lot that they can do via executive order to actually to deal with

the issue of policing. And, you know, it's already difficult to do things on policing because much of it is a local issue, even at so trying to do things at the federal level so they they are making the case that they are trying to do something it does seem like on issues like voting rights though and policing what the white house has done is said this is what we want congress has to get it done and if you're mad about it, go to Congress. But I don't know if that carries any weight with these like civil rights groups and with these activists who want more from the White House. Like, Juana, does that carry any weight? Based on my conversations, it really doesn't. They again point back to the fact that they believe that this president as a candidate made

promises and has failed to deliver. I think that, I mean, you've seen civil rights leaders on the Hill in recent weeks speaking to key lawmakers, not just Democrats, mind you. They've been seeking meetings with Republicans, too, to talk about these key pieces of legislation that just seem to be stuck in Congress and are unable to be passed. But I think that, frankly, many of them tell me that it's pretty cheap rhetoric when they hear White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki say, your anger is misdirected. That frustrates a number of them. They feel like they stuck their necks out, that many Black voters stood in line for hours during the 2020 campaign to support this president. And they feel like,

the thing that we keep hearing is, they feel like he should use the full power of his office to make sure that these things are passed. Now what that looks like, as you point out, I'm just not certain. And just like when we talked about earlier with, you know, the spending bills, part of this is having something to show voters if the Biden administration, if Democrats want Democratic leaning voters to come out and vote in the midterms, like that's why this sort of legislation not getting through, it then raises questions of how do you get these people to the polls if they're not seeing the fruits of their votes already. Yeah, that's one of the things that like Democratic strategists have said to me is that basically, it's really hard to spend one election cycle saying if you deliver power to Democrats, we will make good on XYZ promises and then come back to them during the midterms and say, well, you didn't give us quite enough Democrats. It's not an easy thing to sell in a campaign. All right. Well, we'll leave that there. And we're going to take a quick break. And

when we get back, it's time for Can't Let It Go. Support for this podcast and the following message come from Southern Company. Southern Company is making energy smart and sustainable for their nine million customers across the country. From modernizing infrastructure to achieving their interim carbon reduction goal 10 years early, Southern Company is committed to building a clean, resilient energy future today and for generations to come. Learn more at southerncompany.com slash future. Southern Company, building the future of energy. And we're back.

It's time to end the show like we do every week with Can't Let It Go. The part of the show where we talk about things from the week that we just cannot let go of. And there's a lot of things I cannot let go of this week. But let's start with Kelsey. What can you not let go of? Okay, so I also had a number of things I could not let go of this week, but there's a late entrant to my list, and so I'm going to go with it. I am going with Vice President Kamala Harris was on The View today. She flew all the way to New York to be on The View.

She was supposed to be doing this big in-person interview, and then they basically stopped. And there seems to be something happening here that I'm not 100% aware of. Can someone please apprise me of the situation? I need the two of you to step off for a second. Okay. Anna and Sonny have to leave. And we'll tell you why.

More information later. It's a tease. We'll tell you why in a couple of minutes. So shall later. Have to leave. Yes. And we'll tell you why. More information later. It's a tease. We'll tell you why in a couple of minutes. So shall I introduce the vice president? Yes. Okay. So, vice president. No.

No. Nope. Okay. Shall we dance? Let's do a tap dance. Let's do a tap dance. And when they came back from commercial, Joy was like, well, two of the hosts just tested positive for COVID, so we're going to have to figure things out.

They spent like a really considerable amount of time having to vamp while they figured out what to do with Harris because she couldn't come onto the set with two people who had tested positive. So she had to do this interview from some other room in the building with like one iPhone headphone on. And it was just a really weird look. I feel like as people who are in the business of like live radio and live production, I kind of cringe for those producers who are trying to figure out, oh, we've got the vice president. It's a big get. And what the heck do we do with this now? And the hosts that are there, they have to sit there and take questions from the audience.

Like, what Broadway show you want to see? And you know, and like, oh, I love Wicked. What is going on? But I think we've all been there where we've had to, like, feel some time on the air. And that's tough to do. But the good thing is that, you know, Sunny and Anna are, they are vaccinated. And so they should be fine.

It wasn't like they were showing any symptoms. So they're probably just asymptomatic they should be fine. It wasn't like they were showing any symptoms, so they're probably just asymptomatic and should be fine. So shout-outs for vaccines. Yes, yeah, yeah. For sure, and we hope they're feeling okay, too. Yes. All right, so I'm going to go next because, you know, I just feel like I got to get this off my chest.

We're ready. I'm ready for this. Bring it on. Bring it on. I just feel like I got to get this off my chest. So we're ready. We're ready for this. Bring it on. Bring it on. There have been on the run in a county that I live in, Prince George's County, Maryland. Oh, I know where this is going. There are zebras, they escape from an exotic animal trader who has a license in Maryland to have zebras. But some of them done got free. Have you seen the zebras?

I have not seen the zebras. PG County is very big, so it's not really close to where I am. I'm just marching through your lawn. They have been on the loose for like three weeks. First of all, I've learned a lot about zebras that I didn't recognize. Please enlighten us. What have you learned? Okay, so the first video of the zebras, they showed someone had, you know, they had a picture of the zebras walking in the backyard in the greenery. I did not realize that zebras really are like camouflage because you think black and white, that doesn't seem like, that seems like that would stand out. That's like my entire wardrobe and I'm

not blending in anywhere. But it seems like a zebra would stand out, but seeing them walking through the greenery, it was really hard to see them like I don't know it's like an optical illusion or something because like the black and the white really blends in right wait are they fast they are fast and I they're they haven't caught them I just did and they they are there was a video from yesterday that was posted of seeing a zebra crossing the road. And so I'm kind of like, why not? What's the punchline to that joke? Look, why not leave the zebras out?

You're like, this is an attraction for PG County. If they've survived this long, maybe the zebras can just stay and survive and thrive in Maryland. Maybe they can just do that. Like, why do we have to capture them if they're running free? See, the thing that really blew my mind about this entire story was I was not aware that zebras are like a legal pet in Maryland. I have so many questions. I didn't know that either. And my husband was like, well, what if they mate with some, like a horse or something?

But I don't think that's really an issue. They're just like breaking into stables mating with horses? We don't know what these zebras are doing. That's why they on the loose. We don't know. We don't know what they're doing. But I think it would be cooler to see zebras than just regular old deer, right? Like have zebras just running around. So that's what I can't let go of now wanna what can't you let go of this week oh i got a lot to get off my chest too but instead of doing that on this podcast i want to talk about the thing that has probably brought me the most joy this week and it's a piece of music it is a cover by the artist little nas x who i'm assuming that some of you all are probably familiar with.

And he just covered one of my favorite songs. He covered Jolene by Dolly Parton for Live Lounge. Yeah. It's so hard to like distill down into a couple words why I love this. Like, it's Black, it's queer, it's country, and it's just so beautiful. And I swear that I listened to it like five or six times the first day that I heard it. Since he came on the scene with Old Town Road back in 2018, he's just played with genre and really pushed the industry to talk seriously about racism and homophobia. And he's just so joyful and authentically himself.

And the song is is it's beautiful and this song has been covered so many times by so many different kinds of artists but the graveliness of his voice and the way he does it is just so unique and kind of captivating to me that i think it's just, I don't know, it's just so cool having watched him kind of emerge as this artist kind of out of nowhere. Nobody really thought back when Old Town Road came out. It was all over the internet. Weren't really quite sure what his staying power would be. And then to hear him cover this iconic song as he just released his debut album, Montero, it's just been amazing. And I just have loved watching him.

He is having such a year. Like, such a, like, it's been really fun to watch. So fun. That's a wrap for today. Our executive producer is Shirley Henry. Our editors are Mathani Maturi and Eric McDaniel.

Our producers are Barton Girdwood and Elena Moore. Thanks to Lexi Shapiro and Brandon Carter. I'm Aisha Roscoe and I cover the White House. I'm Juana Summers and I cover politics. And I'm Kelsey Snell.

I cover Congress. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.