The NPR Politics Podcast - Democrats Launch Probe Into Trump's Firing Of State Department Inspector General

Episode Date: May 18, 2020

Congressional Democrats announced Saturday they're requesting all records and documents regarding President Trump's decision to fire State Department Inspector General Steve Linick, the fourth government watchdog Trump has fired or sought to remove in the last six weeks. Plus, former President Obama addresses 2020 graduates and says the United States lacks the leadership to fight the pandemic. This episode: White House correspondent Tamara Keith, White House reporter Ayesha Rascoe, and national political correspondent Mara Liasson.Connect:Subscribe to the NPR Politics Podcast here.Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio stationLearn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Heather from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I want to send congratulations out to everyone who is graduating. Holla! Today is also both my and my husband's birthday. At 39, I now am officially too old for homework. This podcast was recorded at 1.40 p.m. on Monday, the 18th of May. Things may have changed since it was recorded at 1.40 p.m. on Monday, the 18th of May. Things may have changed since it was recorded. Enjoy the show and cheers!

That's pretty great. Congratulations. Yeah. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. I'm Aisha Rosto. I also cover the White House. And I Ayesha Rosto. I also cover the White House.

And I'm Mara Liason, national political correspondent. And President Trump has a problem with government watchdogs, and he doesn't really hide it. Did I hear the word inspector general? Really? Inspectors general. And I love the plural. Inspector general is inspectors general. It's one of those fun plurals.

They're independent investigators meant to keep government agencies and their leaders honest. You know, they find failures and shortcomings and they bring them to light with these reports in theory so that they can be fixed. And in recent weeks, President Trump has been systematically clearing out Inspector's General that he doesn't see as loyal enough. It happened again over the weekend. Yeah, this this time, President Trump, he's given Congress 30 days notice that he's basically removing Steve Linnick, who is the State Department inspector general. And this is, you know, caused a bit of a firestorm. Because as you said, Tam, this is a part of a pattern and congressional Democrats are looking into why Linick was fired and if it's because Linick was investigating

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. What we know is that Democrats in Congress say that at the time President Trump decided to fire Linick, he was investigating Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. What our own Michelle Kellerman, who covers the State Department, has reported is that that investigation was about whether Pompeo misused a political appointee, a staffer at the State Department, to do personal errands for himself and his wife. Now, Congress, if they want to, it's highly unlikely, but if they want to, they could step in in the next 30 days and try to stop this. But that would require some bipartisan cooperation and outrage. And although some, Aisha, some Republicans and a lot of Democrats, but some Republicans have sort of tepidly said, maybe the president shouldn't do this.

It doesn't sound like there's a groundswell. No, it's not. Certainly Democrats are very fired up and they're saying they're going to look into this. You know, on the Republican side, you have Senator Chuck Grassley, who's kind of like the, you know, the patron saint of whistleblowers and inspectors general. Did I get that right, Tam? Inspectors general. You got that plural. I love, I just. I love it. Yeah, so he did raise some concern about the letter that Trump sent to announce that he was getting rid of Linnick.

And in this letter, President Trump basically says that it's vital that he has the fullest confidence in appointees serving as inspectors general. And that is no longer the case with regard to Linick. And basically Grassley said, well, that's not specific enough. I mean, this was like a three paragraph letter. It's like you've lost confidence in him, but why? Yeah. And defenders of the president would say he doesn't have to tell you why, because inspectors general are part of the executive branch and the president gets to hire and fire them. Now, the reason why this gets complicated is this is yet another norm that the president has thrown out the window. Just like the FBI director has a 10-year term

to give him some measure of independence, he is also part of the executive branch. And that's why Donald Trump has been able to get rid of the FBI director, which he has done. And Donald Trump chafes at any kind of independent oversight of the executive branch, even if it's inside the executive branch itself. And this is something that Congresses and future presidents are going to have to wrestle with. How much oversight do you want of the executive? One just little interesting side note here is that after this letter went out and the news broke that President Trump was firing the State Department inspector general, a White House official started circulating and including to me and other news organizations that Pompeo had recommended that Linick be removed and that President Trump agreed. And in a way, to me, that sort of seemed like the White House was trying to

say, oh, this is Pompeo's gig. Like this was his idea. It was also the White House totally making their opponents' arguments. That's the whole purpose of the inspector general, that the person who's being investigated doesn't get to fire the investigator, or doesn't get to recommend that the investigator be fired. And Democrats would say that's exactly why we need independent inspectors general, because he was investigating Pompeo.

Pompeo shouldn't be able to just call up the White House and says, please remove this guy. But I do think that in the big picture, down the road, if there ever is a Democratic Congress and White House, it's possible that some of these norms that have been respected by previous administrations, not this one, will be turned into actual laws. In other words, there was a law passed that said the FBI director serves 10-year terms to make them a little more independent. In other words, there was a law passed that said the FBI director serves 10-year terms to make them a little more independent. In the future, you could imagine a law being passed

to say presidents have to release their tax returns. Presidents have to defest themselves from their business. Right now, all those things are norms, not laws. And they're being undermined, you know, almost every day by President Trump. That is not the State Department that you're hearing in the background. Although there might be future State Department officials that you're hearing in the background. There may be future diplomats in the background. But right now they're warriors and they're fighting each other and my time at work. Those are my kids. It doesn't sound like they're being very diplomatic. No, not right now. Well, we are going to take a quick break. And when we get back,

former President Barack Obama addresses the graduating class of 2020. companies selling your data. DuckDuckGo can help. They help millions of people like you take back their privacy online. With one download, you can search and browse privately, avoiding trackers. DuckDuckGo. Privacy simplified. Making something original and creative is hard, but sustaining that is even harder. I'm Guy Raz from How I Built This, and I just want to say congratulations to NPR's Planet Money for 1,000 episodes, and it's still so smart and surprising and delightful as ever. Just check out Planet Money's episode 1,000 celebration to see what I mean. And we are back, and congratulations to the class of 2020. It's been a weird way to end your high school slash college careers. And as part of all this weirdness, there were virtual commencements over the weekend,

including one that was this big combined commencement for graduates of historically black colleges and universities. And former President Barack Obama gave an address to those graduates, focused in part on how the pandemic has disproportionately impacted African American communities. The timing is not ideal. And let's be honest, a disease like this just spotlights the underlying inequalities and extra burdens that Black communities have historically had to deal with in this country. And he didn't stop there. He made a little bit of news by not specifically naming President Trump,

but he made some comments, and it was pretty clear who he was talking about. More than anything, this pandemic has fully finally torn back the curtain on the idea that so many of the folks in charge know what they're doing. A lot of them aren't even pretending to be in charge. If the world's going to get better, it's going to be up to you. This isn't the first time the former president has spoken out indirectly against President Trump. He did it when he endorsed Joe Biden in a videotaped message. He did it on what was supposed to be a private conference call with around 3,000 Obama administration alumni. You can't really keep anything private if you're on a conference call with around 3,000 people. 3,000 of your closest former employee friends.

Of your closest former employees. And then, of course, here in the commencement addresses. I mean, so it does seem like Obama is taking veiled shots at President Trump. President Trump did say in response when he was asked about these comments, he said he hadn't heard them. But he said that Obama was an incompetent president, grossly incompetent. And beyond that, Trump has obviously bucked the norm of like not accusing your former former presidents of committing crimes. And, you know, I don't even think that's a norm. That was just like that was just something that people didn't do. And, you know, all the things that he has gone after Obama with a vengeance. So Obama is still in some ways not, I mean, he's not going after

Trump in the way Trump has gone after him. I think, I mean, it would be hard. It would be hard for Obama to go after him that hard. It would be it would be difficult. It is this interesting thing where former President Obama occupies a lot of space in President Trump's brain. Well, he lives rent-free in his head. There's no doubt about it. Yes, that's the phrase. Yeah, it started with birtherism. His political career started with birtherism, and the latest iteration of this is something that the president calls Obamagate. He's got the branding before he's got the product, because when asked what crime President Obama committed,

he hasn't been able to say. He told Phil Rucker, a Washington Post reporter, you know what the crime is. It's just not in your paper. So he's decided that going after President Obama is a good thing to do in this election year. Well, and, you know, the Trump campaign strategy is turn out the base, get keep them angry, keep his supporters upset. And, you know, President Obama is somebody who riles up President Trump's base. I mean, as you say, like from the very beginning, opposing Obama is part of how Trump built his political career. But Aisha, what happened to the Trump campaign's stated goal of appealing to African American voters? You know, that's really, it's interesting

because I've talked to some, you know, black supporters of President Trump. And one thing that they have said is that they want the campaign to be careful because when they attack President Obama, that is going to make it even more difficult for them to make a pitch to African American voters. And there was never this thought that they were going to get a lot, that the Trump campaign was going to get a lot of African American voters. But the thought was maybe they could get some on the margins and it could make a difference. And so that this campaign of going kind of scorched earth against Obama seems to run counter to that. All right, that is a wrap for today. We will be back tomorrow. Until then, send us your timestamps for the top of the show. Just record yourself on your phone and send the file to NPR politics at NPR.org. I'm Tamara Keith, I cover the White House. I'm Ayesha Roscoe. I also cover

the White House. And I'm Mara Liason, national political correspondent. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.