The NPR Politics Podcast - Explaining Trump's New Travel Ban

Episode Date: June 5, 2025

President Trump issued a presidential proclamation Wednesday that bans citizens of 12 countries, and severely restricts citizens from seven others, from entering the United States. We explain the ban and how it compares to similar attempts made in Trump's first term to limit entry to the country. This episode: voting correspondent Miles Parks, White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez, and immigration policy reporter Ximena Bustillo.This podcast was produced by Bria Suggs and edited by Casey Morell. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.Listen to every episode of the NPR Politics Podcast sponsor-free, unlock access to bonus episodes with more from the NPR Politics team, and support public media when you sign up for The NPR Politics Podcast+ at plus.npr.org/politics.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Shortwave thinks of science as an invisible force, showing up in your everyday life. Powering the food you eat, the medicine you use, the tech in your pocket. Science is approachable because it's already part of your life. Come explore these connections on the Shortwave podcast from NPR. This is Zayana from Ithaca, New York. We just got done trying 19 different mac and cheeses at the Mac and Cheese Bowl fundraiser to support our local Foodnet Meals on Wheels. This podcast was recorded at 12.36 PM on Thursday, June 5th, 2025. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but we certainly will have had our filling of mac and cheese for a while.

Enjoy the show! Wow. I mean, I got two kids. I didn't know you could have 19 variations of mac and cheese. I need a nap just hearing about eating that much mac and cheese. I stopped my lunch to tape this pod, so that made me hungrier. Triggering. Hey there, it's the MPR Politics podcast. I'm Miles Parks, I cover voting. I'm Ximena Bustillo, and I cover immigration policy. And I'm Frank Ordonez, I cover the White House.

And today on the show, the Trump administration has issued a new travel ban starting next week, targeting people from almost 20 countries. Ximena, let's just start there. What does this new ban say, and who does it affect? So the executive action targets 12 countries for a full ban to come to the United States, and that includes countries like Haiti, Somalia, and Afghanistan, and then it also is a partial ban on seven countries, including Cuba, Laos, and Venezuela.

And that partial ban really changes depending on the country and what category of visas or way of traveling to the United States are limited. But then for all of these countries, there are some exceptions, right, Franco? Yeah, there are some exceptions to the ban. If, for example, you have a green card, if you are a dual citizen, if you have some existing visa members, such as connection to family

members, actually certain athletes are able to get in. Also refugees who have been granted asylum, and also Afghans who helped the United States in the war in Afghanistan. And that's actually a bit of a controversial aspect because now the Afghans who helped the US during the war, they have a carve out for them, but their family members do not necessarily have a carve out. And that is likely to impact like tens of thousands of people who were on a pipeline to get to the United States are maybe gonna be excluded from that opportunity now.

And what's the justification being made for this pretty massive travel ban? Yeah, I mean, it's extremely sweeping and the administration's rationale for putting this in place. One is that, you know, it's just fulfilling a campaign promise. I mean, the White House says that, you know, they campaigned on a promise to keep Americans

safe and they needed to do this to protect Americans from terrorist attacks. And they said that a lot of these countries lacked, you know, proper vetting capabilities. And look, most of these countries are largely ones that have adversarial relations with the United States. And in his executive order, President Trump really relies on this idea of visa over a state. And he signals out a few different types of visas. I think this is a good moment to remind everyone that there are dozens of visas and ways that someone can come into the United States. You know, there's multiple types of educational visas, such as FM or

J visas, and those are in some cases mentioned in this executive order as being something that people overstay from particular countries. And he alleges that also the B1 and B2 visas, which are for business, coming here for work, or tourism for the B2, are also visas that some of these countries, he says, they overstay. I mean, when we talk about a full ban from a number of countries, that sounds like a lot of people impacted. Is there any sense on the number of people who are going to be impacted by this? I mean, not yet, Miles.

I mean, this is such a sweeping order. I mean, we're just talking about tens of thousands of Afghans alone being limited here. So the number could be exponentially higher. We're talking about 19 countries in total, 12 being a full ban, seven being partial ban. It's a lot, a lot of people. Well, one of the interesting things

is it does seem like this travel ban is being pegged to the recent terror attack in Colorado. But that person who is alleged to have done that attack is not from one of these countries, right? Yeah, he was from Egypt. And the president actually cited that attack in his video statement yesterday when he announced this travel ban and said that it was cases

like this, which he said justify why this needs to be done, that there are too many people overstaying their visa. But like you said, that person was from Egypt. It was not on the list. And Trump was actually asked about that today. And he basically said that Egypt has been a country that they've been dealing with very closely and that they have things under control and he said the countries on the list don't have things under control. I mean what's been the reaction from the immigration policy community to this new ban? I mean they've been pushing back I mean I mentioned Afghanistan those on the special immigrant visa category they were very concerned that those who worked

for the United States during the war would not be allowed to enter the United States. The administration, again, did have a carve out for them, but they are very concerned right now about all the family members. We're talking tens of thousands of people who are already on a pipeline to come to the United States. And they're saying it sends a very, very wrong message about what the United States stands for when you're not helping the family members of people who helped the United States in such a...in a war. Danielle Pletka I think a lot of the immigration policy advocates really looked at the first Trump administration as a blueprint for what might

come in this administration, looking at things like limiting the refugee program or completely pausing it in this case. And then seeing that a travel ban was instituted during the first administration and what that might look like this time around. And so it's one of those things that I think groups were gearing up and waiting for, but you just didn't exactly know what the specifics would be, who would be on the list, what the justification would be. And it's those like kind of nitty gritty details that you just didn't exactly know what the specifics would be, who would be on the list, what the justification would be. And it's those kind of nitty gritty details that you just have to wait until that orders out

in order to react to it. But I think Franco is completely right. Either way, the argument is kind of the same in that you now have thousands of people who are already on a valid pipeline to come to the United States. Maybe they'd already gotten started on their paperwork, started on their background checks,

even been in the interview processes. And in recent months, we've really just seen this administration pull that back. People who had plane tickets ready to come on the refugee program, now those flights are canceled. Prospective international students who are in the middle of interviewing, now those interviews are canceled. You know, prospective international students who are in the middle of interviewing, now those interviews are canceled. And so now this is like in addition to all the various

ways that he's curbing legal forms of migration. All right. Well, we're going to talk a little bit more about how this does compare to that first ban back in 2017, right after a break. And we're back. So Franco, we mentioned that there was a travel ban during the first Trump administration back in 2017, kind of went back and forth with the courts, but they did end up landing on a ban that was found to be legal by the Supreme Court. How does this current ban that's just been announced compared to that one? Yeah, I mean, I'd say it's a lot more expansive. That experience with that first ban is why this ban is so controversial. I mean it has such a lengthy backstory. I mean

Trump campaigned in his first go at trying to be president on a Muslim ban and when he got into office he signed an executive order you know targeting seven Muslim majority nations. It got wrapped up in the courts. There were lawsuits. There were also lots and lots of protests. mayhem at airports. It was a very big deal. I mean it really kind of defined much of the early days of the administration. And you know he did make a lot of revisions. It did go to the court, the courts blocked it, he made more revisions, they blocked it again. It was like the third iteration of

the ban with exceptions such as allowing green card holders as well as allowing people with pre-existing visas. I'll note those are some of the same exemptions that are being allowed now so you could argue that the Trump administration has learned from that first experience. Are we still expecting some sort of legal action from this ban? Look, I have not seen lawsuits filed yet, but I think there is no doubt that we're going to see lots of lawsuits or we're gonna certainly see a targeted lawsuit.

I did talk with advocate and lawyers in advance of this administration. Let's remember that Trump did do an executive order to look at these things. It was planned. It was expected. The advocacy, the groups such as ACLU have been preparing for this and said they have their own day one plan. We talked a lot about what would Trump do on day one. They told me they also have a day one plan. So I highly anticipate they are, you know,

dusting off their playbook, looking at this very closely. This is a very long proclamation, so it's going to take some fine-tooth reading and looking into and pencil, writing in the margins to figure out exactly what they want to do. But I highly anticipate some lawsuits, and it'll be very interesting to see how it goes forward. Any idea, Jimena, how this is going to impact people from these countries that are already in the United States? I think part of that is still yet to be determined in the how far reaching, you know, the impact of this policy could be, you know, folks who are here with citizenship or with green card status, you know, seem to be, for now, pretty protected by this executive order.

Folks who are here on temporary visas, you know, there could be broader questions about travel restrictions, confusion at airports. You know, advocates are already warning that this is just naturally gonna create broad confusion about who counts where, when, and for how long, and what abilities they have. But then also, there's just kind of the broader concern with those who have family members

that are living in these other countries that were hoping to come to the United States in any capacity as a tourist to visit family, as a student, or maybe under a refugee or some other protected immigrant visa status. And so that is now effectively on pause. And for a lot of families that have watched these programs be paused since January, this is just another thing to add to the list in the confusion. I wonder about, Franco, you mentioned a second ago

that the first trial ban really, and I remember it pretty vividly, the kind of backlash that immediately followed that, right? I mean, it really was. You could turn on any TV, and you could find the kind of backlash that immediately followed that, right? I mean, it really was, you know, you could turn on any TV and you could find the video of people who were protesting or these huge lines at airports. Are we expecting that sort of backlash to this new order at all? I mean, part of the backlash at that time is you had people who were being stopped on flights.

I mean, there was such chaos and confusion at airports. So people were getting on flights and landing in the United States, and then all of a sudden learning of this new travel ban. I anticipate that they learned from that experience as well, and that you're not gonna see that kind of chaos at the airports. That said, I think we'll see.

Trump was re-elected. It was a big part of his campaign. I mean, I think it is a very much a legitimate question, but I certainly do believe that they learned a lot from that at first experience, and I think we're going to see how much they did learn because I really, really do anticipate this to go to the courts, and I think that is going to be the most fascinating thing to watch is under what grounds are lawsuits filed and how much did they dot their I's and cross their T's and how many iterations potentially will it take to get this one through because again it is a very sweeping

proclamation. All right well we can leave it there for today. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting. I'm Jimena Bustillo and I cover immigration policy. And I'm Franco Redonias, I cover the White House. And thank you for listening to the MPR Politics Podcast.