The NPR Politics Podcast - Fact Check: Trump's Freewheeling Friday

Episode Date: June 15, 2018

President Trump began Friday by giving a wide-ranging interview to Fox News, and then he answered questions for a pool of reporters. In both he covered major topics like North Korea, a DOJ Report, immigration legislation, and his feud with the NFL. The NPR Politics team sets the record straight on his comments. This episode: Congressional correspondent Scott Detrow, justice correspondent Ryan Lucas, Congressional reporter Kelsey Snell, and White House reporter Ayesha Rascoe. Email the show at [e-mail]. Find and support your local public radio station at npr.org/stations.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Matthew. And this is his husband, James. And their adopted son, Ian. We are moments away from our finalization court date to officially make Ian part of our family. This podcast was recorded at... 314 Eastern on Friday, June 16th. Things may have changed by the time that you hear this. I know they will for us. Bye!

Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. This morning, we heard a lot from President Trump. First in a TV interview on Fox News, then in a rollicking informal press conference that went on for quite a while. And the president said a lot that needs some context and some fact checking. And that is what we are here to do. I'm Scott Detrow. I cover Congress. I'm Ayesha Roscoe. I cover the White House. I'm Ryan Lucas. I cover the Justice Department. And I'm Kelsey Snell. I also cover Congress. It's Friday, but we are back potting again.

Ayesha, often when we hear from the president at the White House, it's a formal setting. It's in the East Room. It's fancy. There are chairs. There's a lectern. This was not any of that. No, it was not that at all. President Trump tweeted that Fox and Friends was on the North Lawn of the White House and that he might go down. And everyone knows that Fox and Friends is one of his favorite shows. And so he did go down and talk to Fox and Friends for a long time. And then as he was walking back to the White House, he took another round of questions from a bunch of reporters, from a bunch of outlets. So this was kind of a moving, roving, big crowd of reporters yelling questions.

Yelling questions. And President Trump, you know, he was game and he went with it. Right. So here's what we're going to do. We are going to listen to several clips, and after each time we hear the president, the various expert in the room on that particular issue is going to walk us through what else you need to know when you're talking about that topic. Does that work for you guys? Yeah. Works for me. Great. All right.

So we are going to start with the Department of Justice Inspector General report on the FBI in 2016. Ryan, not that long ago, you and I were sitting in the studio talking about it. It was less than 24 hours ago, in fact. And you made a bold prediction at that time. I did indeed. We actually were talking at 530 yesterday afternoon. I said there has been no comment from the president yet, no tweet from the president yet, but we are likely to have both. And how right you were. How right I was.

Let's listen to one of the many, many, many things that President Trump said about this report and James Comey in 2016. Look, you have 13 angry Democrats. There are 13, I call them 13 angry Democrats, and others worked for Obama for eight years. I mean, you have no Republicans. You have no, it's a very unfair situation.

But the IG report totally exonerates. I mean, if you look at the results and if you look at the head investigator saying we have to stop Trump from becoming president. Ryan, walk's not true. It's not true for a couple of reasons. One, the Inspector General's report looked at how the FBI and the Justice Department handled the investigation into Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server. This IG report has nothing to do with the Russia investigation. It did not look at the Russia investigation. It did not look at the special counsel's office. That is a totally separate issue and not something that this IG report dealt with. So it can't exonerate him if it doesn't deal with it. Now, it does say in the IG report that FBI agents exchanged anti-Trump text messages, says that that's something that may have impacted the Russia investigation. It's something that they will look at down the road. But this IG report, not about Russia. Full stop. And the makeup of the Mueller

investigation. That is another talking point that we have heard repeatedly from the president. And each time it's good to remind people that he's muddying the waters here. So a couple of things. One, what he's alleging is that members of Mueller's team donated to Democrats or Democratic causes. There is some factual basis in that. Yes. But remember, the men making decisions, the bosses of this investigation, Special Counsel Robert Mueller is a Republican. Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, the man who is overseeing the investigation, is a Republican and was appointed by President Trump. The FBI director, Chris Wray, is a Republican and was appointed by President Trump

to say that there are one, no Republicans on this investigation is wrong. And two, this is an investigation that is being carried out by career professional investigators. And when hiring people, you cannot take people's political views into consideration. And the big actions that James Comey took in 2016 that this report really rips into are actions that by and, the Justice Department, and specifically James Comey took over the course of 2016 leading up to the election certainly hurt Hillary Clinton, and they certainly did not hurt Donald Trump. Let's talk now about immigration. Trump said a couple different things. He was asked about the story that's becoming an increasingly huge story, and that is the fact that at the border, people trying to enter the country, parents are being separated from their children who are being housed at separate facilities. There's been a lot of really gripping reporting on this and it's touched a lot of nerves.

Trump was asked about that. Mr. President, is it humane to separate children from their families? That's the Democrats doing that, not the Republicans. That's the Democrats doing that. Kelsey? That's not true. Democrats aren't really, they don't have a role to play in this very much because they are not in control. And this is what is happening here. The separation of families at the border is the result of an interpretation that the White House is taking of a court ruling.

It's called the Flores decision. And they are interpreting that as requiring them to separate children from their families because their parents have technically committed a crime and are being prosecuted for that crime. Now, there are some people, including House Speaker Paul Ryan, who say that the best way to fix this problem is for Congress to pass a law that says families should stay together. And they are in the process of trying to attach some language to one of these immigration bills that are supposed to get a vote next week that would require that families that are brought into custody by the Department of Homeland Security would be kept together. Now, again, this is not about something that Democrats are doing and not really something that Democrats can particularly control.

So it's an old court decision that the administration has chosen to interpret in this way. Correct. And one thing that I thought of immediately was the interview that Trump's chief of staff, John Kelly, did with NPR a couple of weeks ago, where Kelly said he viewed this policy as, among other things, a deterrent. So it seems like this was a decision that the Trump administration made. And it is also not a decision that all Republicans agree with. We mentioned Speaker Ryan.

He said that he doesn't think families should be separated. I talked to a number of Republicans throughout the week this week about this issue. And most of them said they don't think that this policy is the correct policy. And that's why it's being added to these immigration bills, which are an issue entirely separate and also confusing today. Trump said that had a lot of repercussions on Capitol Hill. So first, let's listen to what the president said. It sounds like they're going to take a vote on a couple of different bills on immigration, probably next week. One of them, the good light bill, the other is something more moderate. Would you sign either one of them? I'm looking at both of them. I certainly wouldn't sign the more moderate one. What does the bill have to have in it? I need a bill that gives this country tremendous border security. I have to have that. We have to get rid of catch and release.

Does that mean the wall? We have to have the wall. If we don't have the wall, there's no bill. We have to have catch and release. So he followed up after that saying that, listing off the things that the bill had to have in a tweet, he said any immigration bill must have, in all caps, full funding for the wall and catch and release, visa lottery and chain, and go to merit-based immigration. Go for it.

Win! Exclamation point. All caps. So we had talked a lot about this. House Republican leaders were working really hard to find some sort of compromise to head off this this revolt from moderate members. They work on two different bills with the White House. There was a lot of conversation with the White House. Not just conversation with the White House. Stephen Miller, who is Trump's immigration adviser, and Mark Short, who is the person who is the kind of liaison between the White House and Congress, were in the building in negotiations. They were very active in this. At one point in time, Speaker Ryan referred to this as them working hand in

glove with the White House to write these bills. So, Ayesha, the White House works to craft these bills, and the president goes on TV and says, I wouldnha, the White House works to craft these bills and the president goes on TV and says, I wouldn't sign the more moderate one. I mean, it just keeps coming back to no matter how close you are with the president, no matter how much you work with the president, it comes down to how he feels often at any given moment, it seems. I think that this is what makes it difficult for Congress to negotiate with President Trump? Because when he gets in these interviews, you don't know what he will say. And he may have been reacting to this idea of calling something moderate. President Trump is very keen on words. You know, he talks often about how he didn't like tax reform, like tax cuts. And so he calls it tax cuts because no one knows what tax

reform is. So I think when you say moderate to President Trump, he doesn't like that. That doesn't sound strong. And to be clear, though, the bill that the moderate bill, as it is being kind of more commonly called the compromise bill, has all of the things that he listed in this tweet as being necessary. And they has all of those things because the bill was written specifically to conform to his policy demands. And that has been the kind of starting point for this negotiation and the compromise in the first place. There has been some reporting that maybe he didn't hear the question correctly and that he does support the bill. So the next topic we're going to talk about is the one we began the week talking about,

and that is North Korea. The week began with President Trump in Singapore at an unprecedented meeting with Kim Jong-un, the head of North Korea. They reached this agreement. Ayesha, at the time when we were there really early in the morning, East Coast American time, Trump and his top advisor said this is the beginning of a process. It's going to be a very long process. But ever since then, the president has been referring to this as a done deal, as he did again this morning. The way you have described things, it sounds like you feel that he's on the road to denuclearization.

Oh, absolutely. It's in the agreement. It says he will denuclearize. He repeatedly says that he has great chemistry with Kim and that they reached what he feels like is a very substantial agreement. The issue is, is that at points, some of the things that the White House is touting, like that there will be verification that North Korea is getting rid of this nuclear program is not spelled out in the agreement. But what the White House is saying is that when North Korea set an agreement, it agreed to complete denuclearization, that that covers it. that has broken agreement after agreement after agreement like this in the past, particularly when some of the agreements that they reached with the Bush administration or the Clinton administration had a lot more spelled out than this initial early thing did. And there's a legitimate question of if you guys agree, if North Korea and the U.S. agree on what is supposed to happen, why not put it in writing?

Why not spell it out if everyone agrees? And so that is the question that they would like that as well. Treaties are hard to pass, but having this all in writing would avoid all of these questions that we're having right now. Now, President Trump said something else about North Korea that's getting a lot of attention. Let's listen to that. He's the head of a country. And I mean, he is the strong head. Don't let anyone think anything different. He speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same. Trump later said he was kidding. But it struck a lot of people over the past week that Trump has repeatedly basically praised Kim Jong-un, saying they had great chemistry, saying that he's talented. This is a guy who has atrocious human rights records. And that kind of praise, particularly after Trump was so confrontational with the prime minister of one of our closest allies, Canada, has a lot of people scratching their heads. And I think that part of what stood out from that statement, which he says is a joke, is the fact that President Trump has been so complimentary of Kim.

And now he makes this argument that the reason why he was doing this is because he's trying to avert nuclear war. He's trying to save millions of lives. And he said that again today. The question is, is there any middle ground between praising Kim as this very talented leader or just kind of not necessarily saying things to make to upset Kim or that could upset the negotiations that you're doing? Is there any kind of middle ground there? All right, last thing we're going to talk about, as he has done many times before, and I'm sure will continue to again in the future,

President Trump weighed in on the National Football League. And I told the NFL players, I mean, indirectly, I said, you have somebody that's aggrieved, because they're saying people are aggrieved. Okay, let me know about it. I'll look at it. If they're aggrieved, I will pardon them. I'll get them out.

I'm shocked you haven't heard from a single one. Maybe they've called the staff, but I have not personally heard from one. Speaking of the staff. Because I don't know if it's a real issue. I don't think it's a real issue. So President Trump is saying that NFL players have not reached out to him personally. They may not have his phone number. They may not be able to easily get in contact with him. But just to back it up, so before President Trump left for the G7 last week, he had just issued a pardon for a woman who had a life sentence for a nonviolent

drug conviction. And he was talking about this and he was saying he wanted to do more pardons. And while he was talking about it, he was talking to reporters, he told them that if NFL players wanted or knew of someone who needed clemency, that they should reach out to him and he would consider it. And so then he was asked about this today. And that's what he said. He said, basically, they haven't reached out to me. Now, it's kind of not clear at the end when he said this is I don't know if it's a real issue, as often happens with President Trump. It's not clear that exactly what issue he was referring to. He seemed to be kind of conflating different things. So players are a lot of NFL players were kneeling because of police brutality and that black people were dying at the hands of the police and they felt like they're what justice was not being served that some of these people were unarmed and so that's why a lot of people were kneeling and then there is an issue of mass incarceration and an issue of the fact that black people make up a very large part of the prison population much larger than they do of the U.S. population

and how black and brown people and what can be done about that. Now, as far as President Trump pardoning people, that doesn't really get at the systemic issues that a lot of these players are talking about. He's kind of dangling this fruit in front of them or like, look, if you come to me, I'll I'll help you out. But that doesn't necessarily get to the root of this issue. I'm not sure. Maybe some NFL players will reach out to him. But he seemed to be saying because they haven't personally reached out to him, that must mean they don't care about reform. I have to say I'm a bit confused about why he's putting these two issues together in the first place. I mean, has the White House given any clarity as to why he's lumping the two issues together?

It's not clear why he's lumping them together. It does very much put President Trump at the center of all of this instead of putting it out and saying, let's look at how this is happening on a system-wide basis. Let's look at reform throughout the justice system. There's a normal path for fixing some of these issues, and that would be through criminal justice reform legislation, not through the magic wand of a presidential pardon. That doesn't deal with structural issues. Criminal justice reform is something that Congress has been talking about since I've been covering Congress, and I imagine for a long time before that.

It's not a simple thing. And it's definitely not something that even the Republican Party internally agrees on. His own attorney general has been in an arm wrestling match of sorts with Congress. And the White House has not supported sentencing reform. They have supported reforms that would help prisoners once they get released or to get released earlier if they take certain training programs, but they have not supported sentencing reform at this time. All right. We could sit here in the studio adding context to the president's remarks today for hours longer,

but I think we have run out of context for this week. So we're going to end it there, but we'll be back in your feed early next week and throughout next week. But for now, that's a wrap. I'm Scott Tetreault. I cover Congress. I'm A, that's a wrap. I'm Scott Detrow. I cover Congress. I'm Ayesha Roscoe. I cover the White House. I'm Ryan Lucas. I cover the Justice Department. And I'm Kelsey Snell. I also cover Congress. Thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.