The NPR Politics Podcast - From the pulpit to the political arena

Episode Date: October 2, 2026

In some parts of the country, active clergy members are running for office as Democrats, citing the Bible's parable of the Good Samaritan as part of their reasoning for seeking higher office. It's new political ground for Democrats, who are not usually known for talking about faith on the campaign trail.Plus, a look at how the midterm maps are shaping up for Republicans and Democrats alike, and — as usual on Fridays — Can't Let It Go.This episode: voting correspondent Ashley Lopez, White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez, senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro, and religion correspondent Jason DeRose.This podcast was produced and edited by Casey Morell and Bria Suggs.Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.Support public media with NPR+ and enjoy perks for over 25 podcasts like this one. This show’s perks include bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening. Learn more at plus.npr.org.See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

The midterm map is starting to take shape. Concerns about AI are impacting how people vote. And some Democratic candidates running in Republican states are emphasizing their ties to religion in interesting ways. We'll get into all of it and more in our weekly roundup. It's the NBR Politics podcast. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics. I'm Frank O'Donioz. I cover the White House. And I'm Domenico, Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And a big welcome back to Domenico, who was away for a couple months.

It's really nice to have you back. Thank you. Yeah, on parental leave. So it's been a nice time away. Now that you might be getting just a little bit more sleep, we're going to jump right into how the midterm map is shaping up. And I want to start with the state of play here. I mean, if we're looking at an election held today in the House, how is this looking for Democrats right now? Well, if you're just looking in raw terms when it comes to the House itself, the nice thing about being away for a few months is that it's given me a bit of a bigger picture sort of view as I sort of try to take in the landscape. And not a whole lot has changed in the House. I mean, there are certainly things have tipped more in Democrats' direction.

You see, you know, a handful of seats move from solid into the likely category, according to the Cook Political Report, some from likely to lean, lean to toss up, all in Democrats' direction. You know, you're seeing a dozen or more, you know, seats doing that. But overall, the landscape hasn't tipped a lot when it comes to the House. When you look at the Cook political reports projection, it's only about five to 15 seats right now that they see Democrats picking up. That certainly would be enough to put Democrats over the edge to win the House and pick it up. But it's looking like a narrow majority like we've seen with Republicans. Of course, unless things change, you know, over the next month within the Republican Party, you know, sort of not being able to stem the bleeding in many places, you know, then it could wind up being a higher number. but still, you know, it's not looking like it will be an overwhelming wave. And there's a few reasons for that, right? I mean, the fact is Republicans have been able to insulate themselves when it comes to redistricting quite significantly. The Democratic Party is still very unpopular. And it's just not like 2018 where a lot of those districts were in more competitive places. The districts that are competitive right now are a lot of them in Trump won districts.

Yeah. Well, let's switch to the other chamber where like redistricting is not a factor, the Senate. Are things consistent there? Or are we seeing some swings as we get closer to the election? Yeah, the Senate has been a much bigger story as far as it moving more. I mean, Cook Political Report, when you analyze their data, six seats have now trended more in Democrats' favor, which is pretty significant considering only about the third of the Senate is up. Most of the seats are in the safe category. So when you have that many seats now tipping toward Democrats, you're looking remarkable. at a cycle where Democrats started on the defensive. They didn't have much room to

really grow. It looked like a long shot that they would take back the Senate. It's certainly within reach that Democrats could take the Senate majority. That's not to say that they're favored or that it can definitely happen. But a mix of candidates and the national environment has meant that Democrats do have a legitimate chance now of taking back the Senate. All right. So I want to take through the Senate map. And I want to talk. talk about some of these states that Democrats think might actually be in play this cycle. Domenico, why don't you walk us through that? There are multiple, you know, states that Democrats are targeting now. I mean, North Carolina,

for example, is like the top one. I think that Democrats and most Republicans feel like is headed in Democrats' direction. It's now lean Democrat, according to the Cook Political Report. Then you have states that are in this other category like Maine, Ohio, Alaska, Iowa, those are all toss-ups now in the Cook Political Report. And we think about a state like Kansas, it had been solid Republican for a very long time and is now lean Republican. It's really quite something that that's even on the map. You know, and you think about places like Nebraska and South Carolina that nobody was talking about that are now kind of in the periphery a little bit. You know, this is a really interesting thing because when you think about places like Georgia,

which was a big Republican target at the beginning of this cycle, that's now moved to likely Democrat from lean Democrats. So that's almost off the table for Republicans. And then they have two other targets, Michigan and New Hampshire, both are toss-ups. And if Republicans can pick off one or both of those, it certainly makes the map harder for Democrats. But the map here, as we're talking about, has certainly widened fairly considerably for Democrats, you know, over the last few months. Franco, this is not great news for Republicans, I'm guessing. And it's looking as we get closer to the election, bleaker for them. I'm guessing this is why we saw President Trump holding rallies in deep red, Texas, and Oklahoma. Yeah, I mean, certainly when it comes to Oklahoma, I was on the trip and felt like I was basically living through the scenario that Domenico is describing right now. And basically a very, very delicate dance that Republicans are trying to have. with Trump. I mean, they want to keep some distance from him because Trump is not very popular right now in many circles, but they also can't distance themselves too much or risk turning off, you know, Trump's diehard base. I mean, Oklahoma, he's telling them to pretend he's on the ballot as he does in other places. And, you know, that's clearly a very big asset for MAGA voters, but it's also a very dangerous message when it comes to Republicans. And of course, he did stop.

in Texas as well. And while it has been a very, you know, red stronghold, it is, you know, there are questions about that race right now. And he went there to support Ken Paxton, who the Republican candidate, AG, who's running against James Taylorico. And Trump, you know, praised Paxton. He said he traveled to Texas to help Paxton. But he didn't bring Paxton on the stage. There was no, you know, photo of the two together. And I think that does kind of speak. to that dance that some Republicans are having. And, you know, the New York Times reported that Paxton even told donors that Trump's midterm, you know, convention may have been a drag on some of the Republican support. Well, it's always been this double-edged sword when it comes to Trump for the Republican Party. You know, when he's on the ballot, he certainly fires up the right and MAGA and he's able to bring out more conservatives, which Republicans need, right?

But when Trump is the face of everything, he also is toxic for the middle. And that means independents are very turned off by him. And increasingly, we're seeing in polling and in some elections, Latinos who are a key group and as swing group still. And, you know, it's not clear which direction they will go if they will actually show up, if they will stay home. But a lot of what Trump's policies have been, whether it's the economy and prices or these harsh immigration tactics, have certainly been something that Latinos have viewed overwhelmingly as a negative and not what they thought they were buying into when Trump won a record share of Latinos in the 2024 presidential election. So these are all warning signs for Republicans and especially those swing district Republicans. who aren't sure exactly how to deal with Trump when it comes to Trump being the national face of everything. Yeah, at the same time, they can't totally, like, distance themselves from

because they need those MAGA voters. They need that support to get them over the edge. And Trump is just, as, you know, Domenico's pointing out, he's just so tied to the Republican Party. I mean, they're just connected so much at the hip. They can't entirely distance them themselves. And, you know, MAGA voters are, you know, tied to Trump. They're very loyal to Trump. And if they think Trump's being dissed, they're going to respond. Here's the thing, though, that I do think we need to talk a little bit about. And that's the national environment that Trump has created because midterms are largely a referendum on the president that's in office. And right now, when it comes to an average of the polls, you look at the New York Times aggregator, for example, Trump's approval rating is at 37%. It's not that far off from the sort of lows of Obama and. Biden, who are in the like kind of low 40s when it comes to pre-midterm approval ratings. But the only person who he's tied with in pre-midterm approval ratings is George W. Bush in 2006, just before the 2006 election when Iraq was spiraling into civil war. That's the same environment you've got right now for Trump.

And back then in 2006, Democrats were able to take back the House, take back the Senate. and it's looking very similar to that environment except for the fact that we have a way smaller universe of competitive to potentially competitive seats. Yeah. Looking at all this, I guess it's not so surprising to see the Senate map look the way it is. Like the Republicans also just don't have a lot to run on right now. Like the economy gets worse and worse every day. Like it's really a tough, like just atmosphere for them, which is why I guess maybe we shouldn't be so shocked. But I am pretty shocked to see like states like Ohio, like that Senate race look the way it does when I mean, especially when you're looking at like states that you would assume would be better for Democrats like Maine and Michigan. Like it's a very interesting picture. But, you know, Ohio has been a Republican stronghold for a little bit now. Like what is happening there?

Well, let's look at Ohio in the big picture first. John Eustadt is the incumbent Republican. Most people in this country probably don't know a whole lot about John Euston except that he's a Republican. And when you're seeing. as a generic Republican or a generic Democrat, you're very closely tied to the leadership of your party. So whatever Donald Trump says and does is going to be very clearly translated to John Houston. And it's something that he's going to have to depend. Now, this is a right-leaning state, as you noted. But the person he's running against, it's this weird situation where Democrat Sherrod Brown is on the ticket. And a lot of people think Sherrod Brown is the incumbent because he's served for so long in the Senate. But when it comes to something like, you mentioned the economy, presidents usually get more blame and credit than they deserve for

the economy. But with the war in Iran, Trump's tariffs, these were choices that led directly to increased prices on goods and energy. The economy is also increasingly bifurcated. And you're talking about the Midwest, former Rust Belt places that are dependent on, you know, domestic manufacturing and having that base being offshoreed or put overseas and AI getting more attention here, there's such a backlash to artificial intelligence that Trump is now doubling down, though, on artificial intelligence, trying to rebrand it as superintelligence, calling it SI. But look, when I talked to Democratic strategists this week, they said, you've got to lean into AI in a street fight here because the polling is clear. People are against data centers. They want more regulation.

And maybe in the long term, it'll help the economy. But it's really helping right now, wealthy people, because their portfolios are dominated by AI companies. The stock market is continuing to increase when it comes to that because of that. But regular Americans are struggling because inflation's outpacing wages. The labor market is pretty middling. Interest rates are creeping higher. And that's making it harder to do things like borrow for houses and cars. And that's why I seeing Sherrod Brown try to make John Houston the face of AI data centers.

Yeah. I mean, Franco, I would love for you to explain like the president's thinking here because like, I mean, I hear from swing voters month after month. And this is a huge part of their anxiety, not just, you know, what AI is going to do like to education, raising already high energy prices. It is a big source of stress for people. I wonder, like, how you see the administration, like, navigating this. Yeah, definitely high stress about the energy costs, the, you know, unwanted development. Trump is really doubling down at a time when the politics on this are really just getting harder and harder. He's, you know, promoting these data centers, you know, as big economic engines. He met this week with AI executives.

And the case he's making is that America cannot afford to slow down during the AI race or they're going to get beat by China. And he argues that the data centers actually bring jobs and tax revenue. Trump often talks about these 80, 20 issues and that he is usually on the side of the 80% issue. This is not one of them. This is such a huge. political challenge for Republicans because it is another very controversial issue that Trump is, you know, basically owning right now just before the midterms. And it's because of those high electricity costs, because of the unwanted development, because of the noise and because of the very big fear that this, you know, technology is going to take people's jobs away. You know,

Trump's going to do what Trump wants to do. He'd be making a lot of different decisions if he was really, really concerned about, you know, how Republicans would do in the midterm. I think, you know, he's focused on his own agenda first and foremost. All right. We're going to take a quick break. Franco, go get a cup of coffee. We'll see you in a bit. See a bit.

When we come back, the curious case of the campaigning clergy. Welcome back. And NPR religion correspondent Jason DeRose is with us. Hi, Jason. Hello. All right, Jason. So you've been doing some reporting on how there's been like an increasing number of Democrats who are leaning on faith and their ties to their religion as actually part of their like campaign messaging. We know James Talleyco, obviously, very closely watched Senate race in Texas.

He's a Democratic candidate. He's a seminarian. But there were other folks that you followed as well. Can you talk to us about what you heard from them, about why they're running? Right. Well, there are actually five people who are either in seminary or are clergy running as Democrats. As you mentioned, Tala RICO in Texas, but also Frederick Haynes, who's also in Texas, running for a house seat in the Dallas area. He's a Baptist pastor at a large congregation there. He's been there for more than 40 years. In Iowa, there are two clergy people running for two U.S. House seats there. Seratron Garriott is a Lutheran pastor in the Des Moines area. And Lindsay James is a Presbyterian chaplain in the Dubuque area in northeast Iowa. There's also Adam Hamilton. He's running as a Democrat in Kansas for the Senate, and he's a Methodist pastor at a large congregation there. Now, each of them says they have different reasons.

for running in Texas, redistricting was a big issue in Iowa. They talk a lot about opposing the big beautiful bill because of what it meant to rural health care. Neither of those is actually a explicitly religious issue, but one big theme around these clergy or seminarians running as Democrats is the story of the Good Samaritan, that story from the Gospel of Luke about being a good neighbor. And what it means to be a good neighbor means to help those in need. And these candidates see running for office as a way to serve their neighbors. I wonder how prominent their religion is and how they're talking about their campaign, their messages, what they want to get done. Is it at the forefront? And I guess I wonder for a Democratic

audience, which is like mostly the voters they're trying to get out, like how are they navigating that where, you know, Republicans are usually, you know, the sort of folks who have like more ease talking about mixing religion and politics on the stump. I'm not sure that they see their religious message explicitly. as the winning message. I think they see their concerns, political representation, rural health care, economic opportunity as the winning message, but those aren't explicitly religious. In fact, these Democrats have needed to thread a needle to talk about religion because less than a third of Democrats, according to Pew Research, say religion is very important in their lives. So they've come up

with ways to talk about their own faith and what inspires them and how that leads them into public life and onto certain topics, without alienating a largely secular base. But you know who does say religion is important in their lives? Republicans, at more than twice the rate as Democrats. So when clergy talk about religion, there's also something of an appeal to people of faith who might be, say, willing to cross the aisle, also perhaps appealing to independence. And remember, in Texas and Iowa, where I did most of my reporting, these are in the South and the Midwest, places where religion is somewhat more central.

to the conversation than, say, on the East or West Coasts. Yeah. Domenico, I mean, how do you see this playing out for Democrats? Because secular voters, by and large, tend to be more aligned with the Democratic Party. If you're going to find a group of folks who identify as non-religious, they're not likely to be Republicans at this point. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when you look at Pew Polling on religious nuns, as they call it, and I'm not talking about the Catholic nuns, this is no religion, not affiliated. 28% of people in 2024 said that they consider themselves a religious nun up from 16% to decades ago. And 62% of those who said that religion wasn't a big part of their life were Democrats. 31% only were Republican leaning. So yes, this could have some potential for appeal to independents who might lean Republican or be more moderate. And a lot of the places, as Jason is alluding to, these are really.

red states, right? Texas, Iowa, Kansas, all places that Trump won by significant margins in the 2024 and 2016 presidential elections. So look, when you think about that, that is, it is possible. However, I'll say, like, in the Kansas Senate race, Hamilton has been, you know, derided about his religion and his church being a quote, woke church by, you know, Roger Marshall, who he's running against the incumbent senator there. So there's been this sort of push against some of these Democratic, you know, seminarians who, you know, by Republicans to sort of dismiss their religious teaching as too liberal or too woke. But look, this is the kind of thing that, you know, has been at odds within the Democratic Party for a long time, you know, and where Republicans have

really ramped up the use of religion. to say that they kind of own religion, you're seeing a little bit more where Democrats here are trying to push back and own that. But within the Democratic Party, it's a little bit of a, there's a little bit of a tension point there too. Because because of how much Republicans have used it and made it a forefront issue, a lot of Democrats don't want to see a religious candidate or somebody who puts religion and their faith forward. And I think it's a really interesting debate and going to be, I'm very curious to see how these races. play out because of that. Yeah, I'm, I got to say, Jason, like I was a political reporter in Texas for nearly a decade and issues like abortion. Like right now, there's a law about, you know, posting the Ten Commandments in public schools. These are the kind of issues that tend to really inspire and mobilize Republican voters, but they really

outraged Democrats. I wonder what kind of feedback you've gotten from Democratic voters as they see, you know, maybe in a different way, but religion, again, sort of playing an important role. role in the way like candidates campaign? Well, I found a real range. You've got the Democrats in the Pughes who say they're thrilled that candidates are finally talking about faith and they hear somebody talking about faith that sounds a lot like their own. But you also have people in the pews who say, I'm leery about this because of the way that Republicans have talked about the intersection of religion and politics. And then you've got this large group of Democrats for whom religion isn't important. And I would say

they fall into two categories. There are the ones who say, well, I'm not religious, but it's fine if folks want to talk about that. I talk to many people in that category, especially at a lot of James Tala Rico events who are like, oh, I'm secular. I go to the gym. That's the only thing you do religiously. But I'm happy with the people who are interested in Tala RICO because he's a person of faith. But then there's this other group that really do want a separation. I would call them the strict separationists who say they do not want to hear about faith stories.

from their candidates. They do not want to hear appeals to scripture, but they might still vote for that candidate, then probably they will vote for that candidate probably because they're Democrats and they want to vote for the Democratic nominee. And of course, you have these clergy candidates' opponents who are also spending, as Dominico said, a lot of time questioning whether these pastors and chaplains and seminarians are really Christian or really pastors. In fact, in Iowa, Lindsay James' opponent, Joe Mitchell calls them Pinos, pastors in name only. Of course, they are real pastors and they are real seminarians. Some of them have spent 20, 30, 40 years in ministry.

They just have a different view of what the commitments of Christianity mean in public life. You know, it's funny because we all have different inspiration for our values, you know, whether that came from our parents, our communities. and a lot of that for many people is a religious background. That doesn't necessarily mean that your religious values are going to translate exactly to policy and what you think that, you know, the Bible tells you is what you're going to then put in place as your policies. It's more of a statement of values, right? And I think for someone like Tala RICO, I think it's really interesting because we're talking about the idea of separation of church and state. There's been a viral clip that I've seen going around where Tala Tala.

Rico is telling another representative from Texas, who's a Republican who wants the Ten Commandments put into schools, why the Ten Commandments shouldn't be put into schools. And he's basing that on the Constitution and the writings of James Madison. And, you know, he seems to trip up this representative who thinks he's talking about Thomas Jefferson, for example, who wrote the Declaration of Independence. So it's not quite so clean cut as this person is religious. So they're going to use the Bible to then create policy, which is, you know, I think the fear on the left a lot of times when it comes to, especially those on the right, where they've heard that more explicitly, you know, particularly from Southern Baptist. You know, Domenico, in fact, James Tilarico came to prominence and I interviewed him years ago, not as a candidate for anything, but he was just talking out against Christian nationalism. He was a state legislator who was publicly speaking out against Christian nationalism. And that's how he sort of came to prominence among those of us who cover religion.

and then suddenly he became the Democratic nominee, and he's in seminary. So people sort of assumed he might be more interested in less separation, but he's actually quite interested in separation of church and state. Well, and if you think about why he gained as much attention as he did in speaking out against Christian nationalism, you could argue that because he's a seminarian or a pastor in training, that he had some authority in being able to talk about scripture and being able to say, no, these are, what they're doing is bastardizing my view of the Bible and that that's a fundamentalist view that's inappropriate and shouldn't be used for public life is arguable that,

you know, somebody who is a pastor has more authority in being able to make that argument than somebody who considers themselves secular. Yeah. Yes, maybe more authority, but also just more ability to do it because they have spent their lives publicly talking about their faith in ways that many people just sort of have a private faith that they don't really talk about that much. But, you know, one thing that I found with a lot of these people, especially the Presbyterian chaplain, she said it's not just about the preaching. It's about the ministry of presence. It's about listening to people, being present with them in their most important, most difficult times, whether it's the birth of a child or the death of a parent, and that a good politician should be able to be present and listen to the people that they want to serve as their representative.

I do want to talk, though, a little bit of where things might get a little trickier for them. I'm thinking on issues like abortion where, you know, the Democratic platform may not always align with certain religions. How are these Democratic candidates navigating that? Well, it depends on how your religion talks about an issue like abortion. And for these Democrats, they all come from denominations, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist, that have many different points of view on abortion. and those are all sort of encompassed in a big tent. There is no one dogmatic church teaching on the issue, on many issues, in fact, for many Protestants, especially mainline Protestants like these folks. Now, that's very different from, say, the Catholic Church, although it's important to remember that, you know, while the Catholic Church teaches that abortion is a sin, very large numbers of self-identified Catholics, roughly, I think, six and ten, according to Pew Research, do favor abortion rights.

It's not always the religious chivaleth that some religious leaders want to make it out to be. Look at a Presbyterian congregation or a Lutheran congregation or a Methodist congregation. You're going to have a whole variety of views about abortion there. Similarly, these candidates in Texas and Iowa have all voted against bills in their state legislatures that restricted rights for transgender people, the bathroom bills, the youth sports bills that were passed in recent years. And their opponents have actually taken them to task for that, saying that those, aren't Christian stances, but within Christianity, there is a whole host of views about trans rights from conservative to liberal and everywhere in between. And I think these candidates are

demonstrating that Christianity is not one thing, but many things in America, and that no one party has the market cornered for people who call themselves Christians. All right. Well, thanks so much, Jason, for sharing your reporting with us. Happy to do it. One more break, and then it's time for Can't Let It Go. And we're back. And so is Franco. Hey, Franco. Hey,

there. Okay, so it's time for Can't Let It Go. This is a part of the show where we talk about the things from the week that we can't stop thinking about politics or otherwise. I'm going to go first. I cannot stop thinking about this moment in a town hall. Yes, this is, I'm sorry, guys, it's more politics for you. So in Florida, my lovely home state, Byron Donald, he's the Republican nominee for governor.

He held this campaign event where. He took questions, and there's this exchange that happened that we're going to listen to, which went a little viral and was posted on social media. Here, take a listen. Florida does not protect grandparents' rights if a regular parent and a regular grandparent or grandparents that they argue, they don't agree, the parents can cut the grandchild out of the grandparents' life. And that has happened to me. I have not seen my grandson since August 7th of this year.

And I want to know what can happen to get the fix because it's because of pettiness because I refuse to babysit because I had plans. Okay. Okay. I mean, I obviously feel very bad for this woman. She's obviously going through something very emotional. But man, oh, man, do I also feel for Byron Donald? This is a tough one, man. Like, what do you do as a politician when, you know, like a town hall is really, it's a great, like, lowercase D Democratic service to have.

voters talk to you about, you know, what's going on in their lives. But man, oh, man, could sometimes that really take a left turn. Yeah, I'm, I definitely, so many different emotional swirls going on, you know, but certainly understand why politicians often are kind of reluctant to have these town halls because of that. But man, I can't imagine the family dinner conversation in that family next level of imagine. Like, mom. Poor thing. Yeah, but, you know, I mean, I do think that these kinds of towns. are a test of whether or not a politician is skilled to be able to handle these kinds of things, right? I mean, if you can't handle a constituent of yours who's clearly going through something very difficult and meaningful in her life, then how are you going to, you know, do well at a debate on the House or Senate floor?

I mean, I do think that these two things are are not completely unrelated and, you know, I think it's good practice for these politicians to be able to show they can feel people's pain. but also be able to, you know, push back if they need to push back and talk about what the law is or talk about what openings there could be or referring people for help. You're like, you know, whatever it is, right? I mean, it's part of showing your humanity. Yeah. I will say it's only been two months, kind of the nuclear option to go to a town hall and ask a lawmaker to solve this for you. Anyways, okay, Franco, you're up next. What can't you let go of this week?

I'm going to go back to the faith theme and a little bit of sports because we got Domenico over here. My can't let it go is that Pope Leo and whether he actually sought some divine intervention to help the Chicago White Sox make it back into the playoffs. You know, Pope Leo's Chicago born, a lifelong fan of the White Sox. and he was actually asked playfully if he had anything to do with the White Sox surprise return to the playoffs. And he just smiled and said no comment. He's a big White Sox fan, no doubt about it. Remember there's the old video of him at the 2005 World Series. I'm sure he probably said a prayer or two.

Yeah. Why not? Probably. It's a risky prayer to make because it was just a little while ago. that he really riled up some soccer fans, especially Barcelona fans, when he acknowledged that he personally roots for Real Madrid. So I will say here in the U.S., I expect Cubs fans, Chicago Cubs fans, and frankly, all baseball fans will give the Pope a little bit of a pass here, considering it is his lifetime

team. Yeah, and God's got a lot going on, right? I mean, so he may or may not have heard the call. And the White Sox could use any help they can get. Nice. Domenico, what can't you let go of this week? I can't let go of probably the one thing that's more controversial than politics. Taylor Swift.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. That is politics. What are you talking about? This is like the third album in a row. People are not happy. So there's that, but I think I'm kind of more focused on the VMAs, which I actually caught this past week because I thought it was interesting. She unveiled her new, gauzy video after getting the first.

artistic, you know, director or artist director award from the VMAs. And look, it's a really interesting video. It's got Dakota Johnson in it. It's got Colin Farrell. The thing, though, that kind of got me a little bit is what does everybody know about Taylor Swift that happened over the past year? She got married. Yeah, yeah.

Right? Married at Madison Square Garden. It's supposed to be this love story. Your English teacher married, your gym teacher, blah, blah, blah. That's what she wanted to make it sound like, right? And what is this video about? It's about another X who she's dragging. So I don't know.

If I'm Travis Kelsey, I'm feeling like I'm on the clock. Like, because can Taylor Swift, my question here is can Taylor Swift have a career that doesn't involve dragging an X to be able to make music? I mean, he apparently she had one song that was like kind of about love in a positive way. And it wasn't very well received. Yeah, you know, I think actually this is a volume problem. I think Taylor just needs to take a break. Like maybe she needs to find something to write about in her life as it is. Because I think she's just working too much.

I mean, look, one of the best albums that came out this year was, in my opinion, Phoebe Bridger's new album. She took years to make that. And Taylor is pumping out a record like every year or every other year at least. I think like she has to go back to the hits because I don't think she has enough time to come up with new ideas. Each one of those records is blowing up. Every tour is blowing up. It's fair. Travis Kelsey knew exactly what he was doing when he handed over that little friendship bracelet.

He knew what he was doing. He knew the relationship he was getting in. Oh, 100%. I don't think he cares. I mean, you know, I think that that's all good. But I'm just artistically curious if she'll move on from dragging X's now that she's married at some point. Yeah. I mean, I got to say Franco just because, like, you know, we're a journalistic outfit.

And I'm not a Swifty, but I do know this. He never actually got to give her the little bracelet. The story is that he wanted to. And then he got on his podcast and he was like, I wanted to give Taylor Swift this little bracelet with my number. And she heard it. And that Russ was history. So he just left it in his, he just has it in some like drawer or something?

I'm sure he eventually gave it to her. But yeah, interesting times. Okay, that's all for today. Our executive producer is Methoni Matery. Our producer is Brea Suggs. Casey Morel edits the podcast, Special thanks to Dana Farrington. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics.

I'm Franco Ordonez. I cover the White House. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.