The NPR Politics Podcast - How Harris, Trump Are Angling For Votes

Episode Date: August 27, 2024

Each talks about patriotism. Each talks about their strengths as leaders. But, the visions of America Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump are trying to bring to the country couldn't be more different. We look at how each is trying to win over undecided voters. This episode: White House correspondents Deepa Shivaram & Franco Ordoñez, and senior national political correspondent Mara Liasson, The podcast is produced by Casey Morell and Kelli Wessinger. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Listen to every episode of the NPR Politics Podcast sponsor-free, unlock access to bonus episodes with more from the NPR Politics team, and support public media when you sign up for The NPR Politics Podcast+ at plus.npr.org/politics.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Autograph Collection Hotels, with over 300 independent hotels around the world, each exactly like nothing else. Autograph Collection is part of the Marriott Bonvoy portfolio of hotel brands. Find the unforgettable at AutographCollection.com. Hi, this is Alyssa in St. Louis, Missouri. I'm waiting for park rangers to come open the gates so I can start my six-mile long run and my half-marathon training plan. This podcast was recorded at 1.08 p.m. on Tuesday, August 27, 2024. Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but I'll still be enjoying watching the sunrise while collecting my miles.

Okay, enjoy the show. Why are there so many runners who listen to this podcast? I am jealous. I am jealous. Very cool. It's a lot of hard work to do that. I hope that she listens to this episode during training. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Deepa Shivaram. I cover the White House. I'm Franco Adonis. I cover the campaign. And I'm Mara Liason, senior national political correspondent. Okay, so today on the show, the theories of the case for Donald Trump's and Kamala Harris's candidacies and how they're

campaigning for the presidency. In yesterday's episode, we talked about the presidential race being essentially tied, and there are only 70 days until election day. But in the meantime, some voters will start getting their early voting ballots in as little as 10 days. And Trump and Harris accepted their party's nominations at their respective conventions and each addressed the nation while doing so. And we're going to talk a little bit about what their messages were. So Franco, we'll start with some of what former President Trump had to say in Milwaukee. Together we will launch a new era of safety, prosperity, and freedom for citizens of every race, religion, color, and creed. The discord and division in our society

must be healed. We must heal it quickly. As Americans, we are bound together by a single fate and a shared destiny. We rise together or we fall apart. I am running to be President for all of America, not half of America, because there is no victory in winning for half of America. So tonight, with faith and devotion, I proudly accept your nomination for president of the United States. Thank you.

And we should, of course, point out that, you know, Donald Trump was giving his speech at the RNC while Joe Biden was still the candidate running for president. And of course, you know, we might have seen a different rhetoric if it had been Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket. Franco, what was the central message of Trump's speech? I mean, Trump's central message is, you know, about looking back to a time when, you know, the U.S. economy appeared, you know, or was perceived to be stronger, that rural America had more jobs, that manufacturing was more prevalent. But also, kind of as you heard in that clip there, it was also about kind of framing this race between strength and weakness. It was also a message of fear. You know, he went on in that speech to talk about, or at least to paint a very dystopian picture of American society where, you know,

costs have gotten out of control, illegal immigration is plaguing the country, and that America is on the cusp of World War III, and that he is the only one who alone can address the issues of the day. All right. Let's listen to what his opponent, Vice President Kam, race, gender, or the language your grandmother speaks, on behalf of my mother and everyone who has ever set out on their own unlikely journey, on behalf of Americans like the people I grew up with, people who work hard, chase their dreams, and look out for one another, on behalf of everyone whose story could only be written in the greatest nation on earth. I accept your nomination to be president of the United States. Very different tones, messages, words there to take away from Kamala Harris's

speech. Yeah, I mean, I think for Harris, it was much more about, you know, charting a new way forward, about connecting her story to the greater American public, telling a much more universal story about herself and how it connected with everyone else. It was also about presenting a more optimistic vision for the future. You know, she made kind of a subtle changes from Biden's messages. I mean, Biden would cast Trump as kind of like this existential threat to democracy. She definitely warned against Trump coming back. But it was it was also in a frame, a much more positive, a much more sunny side, optimistic framing of, you know, the future and looking ahead. And also, I mean, she picked Governor Tim Walz as her running mate, whose sunny disposition, I mean, his entire persona is pretty jolly, to be frank. Yeah. And Mara, I mean, both candidates here, like we've been saying, different vibes, right, for lack of a better word, but they use the word fight. They talk about being fighters, but the difference

is still pretty stark, right? The subtext to all of that is not exactly the same. The contrast is stark. Two extremely different theories of the case here. Kamala Harris in her speech showed that she believes she cannot win with the Democratic base alone. She was reaching out to the center again and again. She didn't focus on her racial or gender identity. She talked about herself as being the child of immigrants, which is something that millions and millions of Americans can relate to. She also gave a 38-minute speech as opposed to Trump's 92-minute speech. She seemed to understand that undecided people might not listen to more than 38 minutes, and you better give them a reason to vote for you before they start going to the fridge for a snack. Donald Trump, on the other hand, seemed to think that all he has to do is give a typical rally speech.

There were some scripted moments for him at the beginning and the end. You just heard one of them. He didn't seem to have a lot of energy in there. But once he was back to ad-libbing and riffing, he was back to his usual stream of consciousness rally speech, which lasted 92 minutes, because that's what people who come to his rallies love. He doesn't seem to think that he needs to expand his reach beyond the MAGA base to win.

And we'll see whose theory of the case is correct. Let's also just remember for Trump, you know, his speech was just a few days after the attempted assassination on his life, which became a central theme. And he he said, fight, fight, fight. All of his so many of the speakers on stage spoke, you know, said that same theme. It was really part of his message and the Republicans' message throughout the week. Another theme I think I wanted to get at with both of you, patriotism was a big part of both the RNC and the DNC. Talking about, you know, love of country, dedication to America, American flags being a symbol that were everywhere.

It was pretty expected, I think, at the RNC, but it sort of came across in this very, very big way for Democrats that we maybe haven't really seen candidates in the Democratic Party lean into as much in recent years. Let's play a piece of tape from Trump's speech kind of speaking to this. Under our leadership, the United States will be respected again. No nation will question our power. No enemy will doubt our might. Our borders will be totally secure. Our economy will soar. We will return law and order to our streets, patriotism to our schools, and importantly, we will restore peace, stability, and harmony all throughout the world. I mean, Trump's entire, you know, so-called MAGA movement is intertwined with patriotism. He's infamous for kissing the flag before, during speeches, at, you know, consequential moments. You know, he calls, for example, the January 6th rioters who stormed the Capitol, patriots. I mean, it is a huge, huge part of Trump's persona. But at the DNC, Adam Kinzinger, the former Republican congressman from Illinois, you know, turned to kind of Republican viewers and said, hey, Democrats are as patriotic as many Republicans. It was kind of a fascinating moment. Mara, what do you think?

In 2016, I remember sitting in the skybox and talking about how many flags Hillary Clinton had brought out. This isn't new on the part of Democrats, but there's no doubt that historically, Republicans have been the one that kind of owned the patriotism mantle. But it's not new for Democrats. They've been trying to get this back for years. And Kamala Harris worked really, really hard to do it. I mean, she's facing a big hurdle. She has to get people outside the hall, independent voters, swing voters, to imagine her as the commander-in-chief.

We've never had a female commander-in-chief. But when she talked about what she was going to do, she did it in the toughest possible language. As commander-in-chief, I will ensure America always has the strongest, most lethal fighting force in the world. And I will fulfill our sacred obligation to care for our troops and their families, and I will always honor and never disparage their service and their sacrifice. there. She's saying, I'm willing to be a killer, which is what lethal means, on behalf of my country. And she also went on to talk about being an American is the greatest privilege on earth, the privilege and pride of being an American. She really stressed that. I don't know if it's going to work, but this is something that was part of her effort to appeal to voters who aren't part

of the Democratic base. Right. All right. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be back in a moment. And we're back. And a quick reminder, hit the follow button in your preferred podcast app to get notified whenever we have new episodes out. That way you don't miss a beat. We're going to pick up where we left off talking about this commander in chief narrative from Kamala Harris, really trying to show her leadership on a world stage and try to bring in voters from across the aisle, not just the Democratic base. Mara, I want to go back to that point because part of that messaging was also somewhat a way of downplaying, you know, other parts of her identity, like you

were talking about earlier. Right. She isn't running on being the first woman or the first African-American South Asian woman as president. If anything, her identity is as a child of immigrants. And I think that's really important. People are not going to vote for you because you're the first anything. They're going to vote for you because you're going to make their lives better. And that's what she understands in a way that I think Hillary Clinton didn't. And it's also a huge contrast with Trump, who never talks about his upbringing or his family. She paints this picture of how she was raised by a community. She talked about how her mother lived in an apartment with her and her sister above a daycare center. She said she lived in a beautiful working class neighborhood of firefighters, nurses, and construction workers, all who tended their lawns with pride,

and they all loved her as a family. And that's something, that's real old-fashioned Democratic rhetoric. We're all in this together and we help each other. Yeah. Franco, I want to turn to a different element here. I mean, Republicans and Democrats are always going to have different contrasting visions on how to govern. None of that is breaking news here. But the presentation of those visions, of course, very different. What I want to get at, though, is, I mean, how does a campaign get these undecided voters to buy into what they're selling in a very short timeline like we've been pointing out? Yeah, I mean, I think you're right.

I mean, neither of these candidates even dug deep into policy at all during their convention speeches. And I think both campaigns recognize that policy doesn't necessarily move voters during campaigns. Certainly, Trump feels that way when he's, you know, the marketing TV guy. He talks about, you know, these kind of platforms as boring white papers. No one wants to know that. They want more of the bullet points. They want to know what how things are going to change. And I think Harris, you know, is kind of feels similar, at least or at least presented herself similarly in this case. I mean, she has really not gone into many specifics either in the speech or before. I mean, she did obviously enter an economic plan. She talked about controls on food prices. She's talked about dealing with the housing shortage and opportunity economy. And I mean, when it comes to Trump, I mean, sometimes, you know, you kind of question whether he is trying to tack to the center. You know, you have his running mate, J.D. Vance, coming on TV saying that he would veto a national abortion ban.

That is obviously one of the biggest vulnerabilities that Trump and the Republicans have for reaching the middle. So there are those efforts to go to the center, but they are, I would argue, far and few between considering the amount of personal attacks and red meat and focus that Trump has had on Harris's ethnicity, gender, and all the personal attacks that we've heard over and over and over again. I would say Trump is not making much of an effort to convince people who are on the fence, but he is repeating his greatest hits, which is that under his leadership, everything will be fixed. He said, we will restore peace, stability, and harmony all throughout the world. And he'll fix inflation. He'll fix illegal immigration. He doesn't tell you exactly how he's going to do it other than to deport millions of people. But this has been a

theme from him all along that, and I guess he assumes it'll work with undecided voters as well as his base, which is that I alone can fix it. And things were great when I was president. They've been absolutely horrible now, but we're going to make America great again. Okay, before we wrap, which is that I alone can fix it. And things were great when I was president. They've been absolutely horrible now, but we're going to make America great again. Okay. Before we wrap, I want to ask one more question. In the short time that there is left before election day, do both of you anticipate, you know, these candidates, the RNC Trump and the DNC Harris being these campaigns and these candidates in their final form? Or do you think there's still some wiggle room? I mean, I think when it comes to Trump,

we're absolutely seeing big wiggle room and maybe some more dramatic moves in the near future. I mean, we've already started to see some of those moves Trump is bringing in his former campaign advisor, Corey Lewandowski. I mean, it is clear that they are concerned about the momentum that Harris has and with good reason. Obviously, she just came off this very successful convention. She's raised $540 million since launching her presidential campaign. That's a heck of a lot of money. Yeah, I think that just based on these two speeches, it's Trump that we should expect something different. Only because Republicans, including his own campaign, thinks that he squandered the opportunity of that speech, that he didn't take advantage of the moment. Democrats think that Kamala Harris did what she needed to do in that speech.

Now she has to build on that and she has to get over the next big hurdle for her, the next big test, which is that debate on September 10th. Yeah, there's still a lot of politicking to be played. We're going to leave it there for today. I'm Deva Shivaram. I cover the White House. I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the campaign. And I'm Mara Liason, Senior National Political Correspondent. And thanks for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.