The NPR Politics Podcast - If Republicans Don't Solve Their Spat, Congress Can't Pass Laws

Episode Date: October 18, 2023

Rep. Jim Jordan of Ohio was opposed by twenty of his fellow Republicans in a vote before the full House today, leaving him far short of the support he needs to become Speaker of the House. He's called for another vote tomorrow.This episode: White House correspondent Asma Khalid, congressional correspondent Deirdre Walsh, and congressional correspondent Claudia Grisales.The podcast is produced by Casey Morell and Elena Moore. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.Unlock access to this and other bonus content by supporting The NPR Politics Podcast+. Sign up via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Melissa, and I'm getting ready for my wedding here at a llama and alpaca farm in Stockton, New Jersey. This episode was recorded at 6.16 p.m. Eastern Time on Tuesday, October 17th of 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but I will have since walked down the aisle, watched my precious pup be the best ring bearer ever, and have said I do to my best friend, amid friends, family, and all the farm animals. Enjoy the show. Congrats! How cool. Congratulations. Well, hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the

White House. I'm Claudia Grisales. I cover Congress. And I'm Deirdre Walsh. I also cover Congress. No person having received a majority of the whole number of votes cast by surname. A speaker has not been elected. That voice is Congressman Patrick McHenry of North Carolina announcing that Jim Jordan did not have enough votes to become the new speaker of the House. Twenty Republicans did not vote for their colleague from Ohio. That means the House has now gone into recess again, and it is again frozen. So, Deirdre, let's start with this.

Did Jim Jordan fundamentally miscalculate about who was in his corner who was going to vote for him today? I think he knew he wasn't going to win on the first ballot. It was pretty clear last night House Republicans huddled in the basement, and there were enough Republicans who were publicly saying they were likely to vote against Jordan. Remember, there's 221 House Republicans. If all are present and voting on the House floor, he can only lose four. And that many, plus a few others, plus a bunch of others that were undecided or just not talking. So even before they started voting, we got word that the plan was to go to a second ballot if Jordan didn't win on the first one. But I think the size of the opposition and who was part of the opposition, some very senior House Republicans, including the chair of the House Appropriations Committee, Kay Granger. I think that sort of threw a lot of Jordan's allies off. And one I talked to who voted for Jordan said he was surprised by the number.

For listeners who might not be very familiar with Jim Jordan, why is he considered so divisive, Deirdre? I mean, he's been sort of on the far right of the House Republican Conference for pretty much the entire 15 years he's been in the House of Representatives. But he's kind of a barometer of where the party is right now. I mean, he's very close to former President Donald Trump. Even some of his own colleagues have raised concerns about the fact that he's never said that Joe Biden won the 2020 election. Remember, he was one of the small group of House Republicans that was talking to the Trump White House in the lead up to January 6. He was subpoenaed by the January 6 committee about his discussions, and he never cooperated with the committee. Even one Republican who voted against him on the floor today, Ken Buck,

said part of the reason he opposed him was he asked him straight up, did Trump lose the last election? And Jordan wouldn't give him a straight answer. So tell me more about the Republicans opposed to Jordan. Who exactly are they? So I think a big chunk of them are members of these appropriations committees. As Deirdre points out, Kay Granger is a big name. Another is Mario Diaz-Balart. This is the dean of the Florida delegation. He's been in Congress for 20 years, and he is very dug in as a no. And it's just a reminder that Jordan has been a thorn in the sides of these appropriators.

He has fought against funding for a lot of agencies. There's a lot of skepticism that he will support them and their work, especially because they have to work in a bipartisan mode many times. And so that was the worry that with Jordan, that was not going to happen. And so I think it was kind of that skepticism, those members like Mario Diaz-Balart, who were really dug in, that signaled to Jordan that they needed to pull back on this optimism of coming back tonight and voting tonight and instead try again tomorrow. I mean, remember, we are one month away from the deadline when federal government runs out of money, November 17th. So Jordan, as a lot of our audience will remember, he's one of these

far-right conservatives who has a lot of times used the spending fights to have standoffs. There was a shutdown over defunding Obamacare in 2013. He was a big part of that effort. That shutdown lasted about two weeks. And then he was also part of the effort when Trump was the president to have a shutdown over building a border wall. So beyond the appropriators, there are a lot of other House Republicans who are worried about governing and worried that if Jordan's the speaker, how is he going to kind of deal with Democrats and the president to avoid another shutdown? So are these members who did not vote for Jim Jordan fundamentally at all different from those who opposed the ouster of former House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, or are some of these folks the same names?

So a lot of those who voted to oust McCarthy were actually supporters of Jordan. They were the ones trying to rally their colleagues to vote with them, such as Tim Burchett or Matt Gates from Florida, and Burchett is from Tennessee. And so that was the interesting moment here is that we're seeing these really difficult moments for House Republicans to elect a speaker in January for Kevin McCarthy, most recently the ousting of McCarthy, and now with this move with Jordan. and they're very different groups in each of those cases. It's also bizarre for me as someone who has covered McCarthy for a long time to see the former speaker who was ousted two weeks ago stand up and vote for Jim Jordan, who was the biggest thorn in his side not that long ago, and vote for Jordan to take his place. You know, as some of his California colleagues and others who were still mad about, you know, the group that ousted McCarthy voting

for him. So it's just a very strange place. House Republicans are super divided. And I think there's a real concern about how bad this looks for governing right now. And that's not just the folks who voted against Jordan. It's just the fact that this has gone governing right now. And that's not just the folks who voted against Jordan. It's just the fact that this has gone on so long. Yeah. And another group that was key to vote against Jordan today were members of the House Armed Services Committee. This includes Don Bacon of Nebraska and also Carlos Jimenez of Florida. Those members are those that hinted to us ahead of time that they could be no's. Jimenez is very dug in. And it's interesting because we were not clear if the chair of the committee was going to come on board, Mike Rogers, and he did. So the assumption was others would fall in line, but not quite. Well, I've got a lot more questions for both of you, but we are going to take a quick break first and we'll be back in a moment. And we're back.

And Jordan managed to sway some holdouts over the weekend, some of his fellow Republicans, but he needs to win over almost all of those remaining holdouts in order to become speaker. So a question for both of you. Do you see a path for him to do that? I think it's going to be really hard. I mean, Jordan is one of these people who campaigned against swampy Washington. Back in January, Kevin McCarthy could offer some of his the holdouts positions on key committees, or future votes on the floor for things, maybe even

an earmark in a spending bill. Jim Jordan campaigned against earmarks. That's special projects for members in their districts. He's not one of those people who's used to wheeling and dealing because most of his career he's been attacking and trying to defeat legislation as opposed to bringing people together to pass it. So I don't know what he has to give out. I think he will pick up some support. But there's also a chance that people in this break see no path for him to win and decide to vote against him on the next ballot. And he could bleed support. And that's a real problem for him. There was one member I spoke to after the vote who voted for Jordan. This is Bill Huizenga of Michigan. And he said that it's going

to get very difficult if they're trying to do a vote a day. That's going to drag people out and it could flip some yeses to noes instead. Is there anyone else waiting in the wings? Do you all see any other Republican who could win over enough votes to become Speaker of the House? Right now, no. I mean, a lot of House Republicans said, I don't know who can get 217 votes right now. I mean, I think there is, there has been over the last few days, this movement to potentially empower the Speaker pro tem, Patrick McHenry, who's presiding over this election as Speaker. How do you do that? There would have to be a vote on the floor. There would have to be some kind of agreement to basically give him the power to essentially run the House for some set period of time. I don't know that people are ready

to elect him the next Speaker of the House, but there is a lot of concern about some of these big things coming up, like the government spending deadline, November 17th, aid to Israel. So could he preside over some business as they sort this mess out? Do you hear from Democrats that they would potentially be on board with something like that? Yes. The Democratic leader, Hakeem Jeffries, said this this evening. He said that Democrats would be open to helping Republicans do this. And some of those members, such as Carlos Jimenez, one Republican who is pushing for this. Others are saying that it could be a period of time. It could be 30 days. It could be 45 days to get us through that government shutdown deadline and these other critical demands right now. But there's a lot of Republicans who say they will not go along with this. They will not work with Democrats to empower McHenry. And some Republicans themselves have said they've talked to McHenry about this. They mentioned it today after the vote. And McHenry himself is

opposed in terms of expanding his powers unless that's what the Republican conference wants. And why are Republicans opposed to him? They philosophically, some of them don't agree with him or they just don't see him as a good option as speaker? So many said that if McHenry wanted to be speaker, he should run for speaker. So they think that this is just a workaround to a disagreement within the conference

that needs to be sorted within the conference. And I think some of the conservatives who back Jordan are concerned that if he was open to it, or if there was any sort of opening of the door to electing someone like him, it would be electing another establishment Republican. And a lot of conservatives don't want someone like him to be the speaker. And McHenry has said he has no interest in the job. A lot of people think he would be good at it. He's not as polarizing as someone like Jim Jordan. All right. Well, I guess we will see what happens tomorrow. Also, a note, we are, of course, keeping an eye on the situation in Israel and Gaza.

President Biden is en route to Israel as we tape this podcast. So we will be back in your feeds soon to discuss the politics of all of that. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. I'm Claudia Grisales. I cover Congress. I'm Deirdre Walsh. I also cover Congress. And thank you all, as always, for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.