The NPR Politics Podcast - In South Florida, GOP Candidates Debate While Trump Rallies

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

Five candidates — former New Jersey governor Chris Christie, Florida governor Ron DeSantis, former South Carolina governor and U.N. ambassador Nikki Haley, businessman Vivek Ramaswamy, and South Carolina senator Tim Scott met on a debate stage in Miami, each trying to pitch themselves as the alternative to Donald Trump. The former president, meanwhile, skipped the debate — as he has with each held so far this year — and led a rally with his supporters in nearby Hialeah. This episode: senior White House correspondent Tamara Keith, political correspondent Ashley Lopez, and senior political editor & correspondent Domenico Montanaro.The podcast is edited by Casey Morell. It is produced by Jeongyoon Han. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.Unlock access to this and other bonus content by supporting The NPR Politics Podcast+. Sign up via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Support for NPR and the following message come from the Kauffman Foundation, providing access to opportunities that help people achieve financial stability, upward mobility, and economic prosperity, regardless of race, gender, or geography. Kauffman.org Hi, this is John in San Luis Obispo, California. I recently retired after a 41-year career in software and have found new passion volunteering at Woods Humane Society. This podcast was recorded at 10 21 p.m. Eastern time on

Wednesday, November 8th. Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but I will still be giving Grayson, McKinney, Wren, and all the other dogs here at Woods. Lots of love until they find their forever homes. Okay, here's the show. Forever. Gotta love the doggos. Honestly, after this debate, I think we all need a puppy to hug. Yeah, what about debate dogs? We didn't do debate dogs tonight on Twitter or Instagram. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. It was another split screen night for the Republicans running to be president.

In Miami, five candidates met for a debate. Just up the road in Hialeah, Donald Trump held a rally. So Ashley, you were at the rally. Domenico, you were at the debate. Let's start there. It was a smaller field up there on stage. Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis,

former South Carolina Governor and UN Ambassador Nikki Haley, businessman Vivek Ramaswamy, and South Carolina Senator Tim Scott all on the stage. I feel like I should get a prize for saying all those so fast. And NBC's Lester Holt and Kristen Welker moderated along with conservative commentator Hugh Hewitt. So, Domenico, let's start with you. What were your top takeaways? Yeah, you know, the winnowed field really was very apparent, and there was a clear two tiers in this debate. I mean, there was Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis and sort of everyone else. You know, I mean, Chris Christie was far more subdued than we've seen him in the past.

Tim Scott, a bit of an air of desperation, clearly aiming for evangelical voters. And that means Iowa, where more than 60% of Republican caucus goers are generally identify as white evangelical Christians. And then there was Vivek Ramaswamy, who really was kind of stirring up trouble all over the place, was in the middle of everything, got personal a couple of times. You know, not many fireworks, although there was one exchange about high heels that, you know, took Ramaswamy and Haley in different directions. And let's hear that tape from tonight's debate hosted by NBC News. Do you want a leader from a different generation who's going to put this country first,

or do you want Dick Cheney and three inch heels? All right, Mr. Ron Aslami. In which case, we've got two of them on stage. Yeah, and Haley, of course, Sean Pack. Yes, I'd first like to say they're five inch heels, and I don't wear them unless you can run in them. We got two of you on stage. The second thing that I will say is I wear heels. They're not for a fashion statement. They're for ammunition. Ashley, former President Trump held a rally that you attended not far away. But did the debate come up?

Yeah, he did, actually. So he asked the crowd. I mean, this is very classic Trump. He asked the crowd if he made the right decision by not going to the debate. And he got applause for that. He had mentioned to everyone, he's like, you know, this is much harder standing in front of all you guys and doing a speech all by myself is much harder than a debate, sort of like, you know, uh, shirking, uh, like criticisms that he is not doing the debate because it's like too hard for him or something is what he said. So, um, yeah. And he

did talk about his opponents. He went pretty hard on DeSantis, which, um, you know, he has been doing for a while now, but, uh, he has also turned his aim to He went pretty hard on DeSantis, which, you know, he has been doing for a while now. But he has also turned his aim to Nikki Haley, which I guess is not surprising. Vivek Ramaswamy's moniker for her was maybe a little better than his. I think Trump's been referring to her as Birdbrain, which I think took the audience a little while to figure out who he was talking about. But, yeah, that's the Haley moniker now. The nickname from Trump is birdbrain. You don't need a poll to know that Nikki Haley is doing well. When you've got Donald

Trump attacking her. That's all you need to know about the positioning in this race. Yeah. Foreign policy was a big part of the debate tonight. And I want to get into that. It really dominated the first hour. China, Israel, Ukraine, Iran, all big topics. And let's go to Iran because the candidates on stage were extremely hawkish. Here are some clips from this NBC News Republican presidential debate featuring Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswamy, and Tim Scott. We need to be very clear-eyed to know there would be no Hamas without Iran. There would be no Hezbollah without Iran. What I would tell Bibi is that Israel has the right and the responsibility to defend itself.

I would tell him to smoke those terrorists on his southern border, and then I'll tell him as president of the United States, I'll be smoking the terrorists on our southern border. If you want to stop the 40 plus attacks on military personnel in the Middle East, you have to strike in Iran. I mean, that was really unbelievable to hear because, you know, Republicans have kind of walked this line. They have always been very hawkish toward Iran, very much supportive of Israel. But to go so far as to say the United

States should bomb within Iran is a step that goes a little further than the usual talking points from Republicans. And I think really does just show some of the desperation that some of these candidates, in particular, Tim Scott, have in this race right now, as they try and need to get attention to build fundraising to be able to even qualify for the next debate, which is in less than a month and the polling and fundraising standards are even higher for that debate. So you're talking about somebody like Scott, who might not even be on that stage. Yeah, I certainly got the feeling watching this debate tonight that this is probably the last time we're going to see

some of these candidates on a debate stage. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think that it's winnowed, and it's going to winnow further. And I think it's really going to be clarifying for a lot of people about what this race really is and who it's really coming down to. And, you know, it just in some respects, though, this debate without Trump on the stage kind of felt like watching the like play in game for the NCAA tournament, you know, like the 65th versus the 66th team, you know, with the who trying to play for the right to play against number one seed Kansas or something, you know, and that's what it really does kind of feel like. They're all sort of vying to be the alternative to Trump.

You know, 16 seeds don't often beat ones. And that's what it looks like they're trying to go up against here with when it comes to the really the elephant who wasn't in the room with Trump. Yeah. And I got to say tonight, it didn't seem like Trump was really sweating this at all. I mean, he seems like, you know, usually when you feel there's a fight in front of you, you kind of have some fight in you, and this was a pretty low energy, I would say, event for Trump. He seems to not be sweating at all what the competition looks like ahead of him. Did Trump mention Israel at all at his rally, or what is his sort of position? He did. It was sort of a typical Trump, you know,

if I was president, this wouldn't have happened because big wars didn't happen when I was president. That was sort of his argument that he thinks, well, you know, in general, he will say that, you know, Biden's presidency has sort of pastured America sort of weaker in the international world. And all of this stuff is happening because America and its allies appears weaker during a Biden administration. But Mosse's argument is that, you know, this wouldn't have happened if he was president without really giving any specifics as to why. Well, this certainly is a moment with a huge amount of global chaos and multiple fronts and a lot of worry among the public about what's going on with foreign policy. But I also wonder, just before we head to the break here,

this debate was dominated by foreign policy, but typically voting decisions are not really dominated by foreign policy. You know, I talked to a lot of people about this who were waiting in line for Trump today. And the thing that I mean, obviously, I'm talking to Trump based supporters. So that is a very specific subset of the Republican Party. But what I heard a lot was like, people really didn't like Nikki Haley specifically, because, you know, I heard this a lot, which she's going to get us in a lot more wars. I think people seem to be pretty frustrated that America is, you know, contributing money in big ways to, you know, I heard this a lot, which she's going to get us in a lot more wars. I think people seem to be pretty frustrated that America is, you know, contributing money in big ways to, you know, international wars when they feel sort of economic pressures

at home. So in like a way that it's sort of like based in domestic fears and sort of like just sort of pocketbook issues, people do have a lot to say about what's happening on an international stage. And mostly it seems like a lot of people just like kind of want America to stay out of some things. But again, this is a, you know, like very specific subset of the Republican base, more America first type voters. And this is very specific to Trump and something that he's done to the Republican Party because, you know, he really has brought this sort of MAGA isolationist populism

where he's really sort of channeling people's exhaustion with wars overseas and has really brought something that we had seen on the left to now this populism on the right. And it really has shaken up and split some quarters of the Republican Party, which used to be very hawkish and very interventionist. And we saw a lot of that hawkishness on the stage tonight. And a candidate like Nikki Haley would have been the mainstream of Republican views on defense not that long ago. But now there's real division there and a real question about whether she is part of the Republican mainstream or whether she's too hawkish for Republican voters.

OK, more in a moment. We're going to take a quick break. And we're back. And Ashley, I'm wondering what else Donald Trump may have had to say in his rally? Well, I mean, like a lot of his rallies, it's a lot of the old hits, anti-immigration stuff, you know, criticizing Democrats for, you know, many of his ongoing legal issues. But I will say the thing that really stuck out to me was a little bit he had about how some of the smartest people he knew and sort of the people best in their game were over 80. Interesting. Right. Interesting. Right. I was just like, is he getting ahead of like criticism that is probably coming for not just Biden, but probably him?

It's almost like he's setting up like a critique that might be coming his way. He's like, you know what? Some of the smartest and best business people I've ever met are in their 80s. Can you believe that? I thought that was really interesting. Well, and I can imagine that the Biden campaign will gladly share that clip with anybody who wants to see it. Oh, people in their 80s, they can handle anything. So Ashley, though, at this rally, as you said, you were talking to voters talking to Trump voters, super fans, maybe, but did they show any willingness or inclination to vote for any of the people who were on that debate stage? Not at all. And I mean, again, like I talked to people who were waiting in line, you know, starting at like 10am. So these are like, as you mentioned, the super fans. But you know, these are also I talked to people who were waiting in line, you know, starting at like 10 a.m.

So these are like, as you mentioned, the super fans. But, you know, these are also I talked to a lot of Floridians. I like I specifically asked if people lived in Florida because I was curious what they made of their governor, Ron DeSantis, who won a pretty big election not too long ago. He won it by a landslide. And a lot of them told me that they had voted for DeSantis and liked him, but feel very betrayed that he had sort of run a campaign sort of against Trump. So I thought that was pretty interesting that, you know, their support for Trump was so strong that they were pretty, I guess, disappointed in Ron DeSantis now and felt like he probably didn't have a political future in Florida after this, because the Republican base is now just kind of angry at him in a pretty visceral way. It is notable that even in Florida,

Trump is able to pull in a lot of support, even though this is DeSantis' home territory. DeSantis did, though, seem pretty energized on the debate stage, maybe feeling a little bit of that home state juice. He really did seem to kind of bring a lot of energy. And it really was, it seemed him and Nikki Haley, who sort of stood above the rest of the crowd. The Domenico, I'm thinking about Senator Marco Rubio of Florida, who thought he would have a home state advantage, and he did not. It didn't work out so well when he tried to take on Trump. And he failed. Yeah. And, you know, the debate stage does keep shrinking. There were eight people on stage the first time, seven, now five. But Donald Trump continues to lead in polls and also continues to refuse to show up to these debates. So how can or will the opposition coalesce? Look, the clock is ticking here.

I mean, no question about it. And Trump has got huge leads in polls. Polls are not votes. Right. But the campaigns know this. The campaigns are polling. The numbers are showing up for them. When I talk to people who are involved with the campaigns and with super PACs, they know that Trump is the guy to beat. And they're all vying

to be the alternative and looking to really leapfrog each other. And really, right now, it's looking at DeSantis and Haley, who are really sort of in this bit of a grudge match to be the principal Trump alternative. And it's really going to come down to those first early states and whether or not one of them can really distinguish themselves and if the others drop out and endorse one or the other. How can they do it? Well, one person who's involved in Haley's Super PAC tonight, who I was able to talk to on the sidelines here, was saying that really they're having to target Iowa and New Hampshire. They're pouring tens of millions of dollars into both states and TV ads in particular. And really, the key here is going

to be for Haley in particular, to try to leapfrog DeSantis have to really show that she can beat him in Iowa and in New Hampshire. Really, Iowa is the place where DeSantis is really focused, and then light that match. And we've seen in other elections where voters in South Carolina can kind of move very quickly. And she is the former governor of South Carolina. And if that were to happen, that is sort of the path for Nikki Haley. For DeSantis, he's got to be able to win or do well in a place like Iowa, show that he can beat back Nikki Haley and that he really is the principal alternative to Trump and recapture some of that momentum that he had early on in the campaign.

Yeah, well, we will continue watching and following. I just want to give a quick shout out to Ashley's mom to thank her for letting Ashley record the podcast. Are you in the kitchen? Where are you? Oh, my gosh, I'm in my dad's old office. My poor mother. My stuff is everywhere in her house. You can never really get rid of kids, I guess. Never. And you can always go home. All right. That's it for tonight. More tomorrow. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics. And I'm Domenico

Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.