The NPR Politics Podcast - Interview: Vice President Kamala Harris

Episode Date: December 20, 2022

Her life is about to change: with Democrats expanding their control in the Senate, Vice President Harris tells NPR's Asma Khalid that she won't need to stay as close to Washington as she has in the administration's first two years — when she was her party's tie-breaking vote in the chamber. Harris says she will expand her travel in support of activists and organizers working to advance abortion access and voting rights.This episode: White House correspondent Asma Khalid.This episode was produced by Elena Moore and Casey Morell. It was edited by Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Research and fact-checking by Katherine Swartz.Unlock access to this and other bonus content by supporting The NPR Politics Podcast+. Sign up via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. And yesterday afternoon, I sat down in the Vice President's ceremonial office with Kamala Harris for a year-end chat about what she feels the administration has accomplished and how she feels her role evolving in the next two years. In January, Democrats are expected to control the Senate. That means Harris may no longer need to be the tie-breaking vote. So first, I asked her what that changes for her. Here's what she told me. Well, I think one of the things that will change significantly is my schedule. Because as the president of the Senate in a tie-breaking role, I needed to be available and on call, essentially, throughout the week when the Senate was in session in the event that my vote was needed.

And so that had a real impact on the ability to then plan any kind of travel, be it domestic or international. So that might seem like a mundane fact, but it actually will be a big difference in terms of how I'm able to do my work as vice president. But I will tell you, there were times when, as president of the Senate, I would go to the Senate because the issue itself was one of, I think, major concerns. So, for example, on voting rights, being there, knowing that, sadly, we did not have the votes, but being there to make the point that this is something that we should pay attention to, because the issues that were at stake are so fundamental to who we are as a democracy. So more travel, hopefully, in the next two years, you think? More travel is probably one of the next two years, you think? But what does that fight look like now? Democrats don't have the numbers in the Senate to overturn the filibuster.

I want to know what happens next. I mean, what happens to the promise to codify Roe? A lot has to happen. I very much think of this as a movement, and certainly picking up on the movement that was started generations ago that led to the passage of Roe v. Wade and the meaning of that in terms of the court's decision there. We have to pick up where those leaders left off and do it in a way that is about continuing to organize around the issue

so that we can empower people and also have an impact on what's happening in the states. The Dobbs decision made very clear that this issue is very much until we get a national and a federal law going to the states. That's why I traveled the country and convened state legislators in red states and blue states, and let me tell you, we have some real stars out there who are doing the work of attempting to fight back on oppressive legislation or to uplift what we can do to strengthen the right of an individual to make decisions about their own body. So there's the work we need to do to strengthen and support state leaders and local leaders. There is the work that we need to do to continue to appeal to the common sense and goodwill of members of the United States Congress to pass the Women's Health Protection Act with a recognition that this issue is fundamentally about the issue of freedom and liberty, foundational issues for our nation. And what we have seen

with the Dobbs decision is a deprivation of the right of every person in our country to be able to exercise self-determination in the spirit of freedom and liberty to make decisions about their own body. And so there is going to be that piece. There is the piece that has to happen, which for health care providers to do the work of providing reproductive health care, laws that are intended to punish women, laws that create no exception for rape or incest. I, as a prosecutor, in my years as a prosecutor, specialized in crimes of violence against women and children. The idea that any state and a so-called leader would suggest that after an individual has endured such a violent act that is a violation of their body, and then suggest that that individual after that does not

have the right to make a decision about what happens to their body next, it's immoral. I want to ask you about the job, the job of being vice president, because you've now been doing it for about two years. By definition, this feels like a tough job. I mean, you are someone's number two by definition. Do you feel like you found your own lane? And I'm curious what the toughest aspect for you has been these last couple years. Well, let me say this. I started out being the first woman elected district attorney of a major city in this country, the first woman of color in the entire state of 40 million people as district attorney. I ran the second largest department of Justice in the United States as Attorney General of California. By the way, I was the first woman, first person of color.

And then I was a U.S. Senator where I represented one in eight Americans. The work that I have done my entire career, I think many would say is tough work, where you have to make tough decisions because the work directly impacts human life and the lives of so many people. So the work that I do as vice president is equally important, and one could say tough because the consequences of the work we do can be and should be for the benefit of millions, and to the extent we have global impact, billions of people. And I take the work very seriously. So the work we have

done, for example, that's been about uplifting small businesses in America. I love small businesses. I was raised by my mother, and I was raised by a second mother who ran a daycare center and we lived on top of that daycare center. She was a small business owner. My first experience with a small business owner was early in my life, knowing that small business owners are not only business leaders, they are civic leaders, community leaders, and what we can do to then give them greater support through access to capital. So that's been a lot of the work I've been doing. I love that work because it is about understanding it's an investment in the economic lifeblood and health of a community, but it is also about the character and the culture and contributing to the vitality of that in our communities.

And by the way, half of America's workforce works for a small business or runs a small business. So I've been doing that work. Doing the work of dealing with maternal mortality, something that you and I have talked about. Bringing that to the stage of the White House, literally. An issue that has impacted millions of women in our country and their families, that has really not received the level of attention it deserves, given the urgency of the issue. When, for example, black women are three times more likely to die in

connection with childbirth, native women are twice as likely, rural women one and a half times likely, recognizing that it's just a matter of dealing with the issue, knowing that the solutions are pretty obvious, improving access to health care, addressing the issue of bias in the health care system, and training on that, the kind of work that we've been doing. I've been doing as vice president to lift that up in a way that I know has profound impact. And then, of course, the work we are doing on the international stage. That has been about focusing, for example, on our relationship with our friends and allies in the Indo-Pacific. Just convened the U.S.-Africa summit with the president. And what we are doing to put better focus on a continent which has a median age population of 19.

All right. It's time for a quick break. We'll be back in a moment. And we're back with more of my conversation with Vice President Harris. You know, I am a fairly avid user of social media. I know by following your accounts, you also use quite a bit of social media. Your team uses social media. And there has been a lot of chaos, drama going on over at Twitter. And I've seen a number of people leave the site in recent days. Some of them journalists have been kicked off the site. And I'm curious for you, is there a point where you decide, I'm not going to use this platform anymore? I think about the issue a bit differently,

which is my deep and profound concern about how misinformation and disinformation has infiltrated information streams in our country. For example, for the four years that I was a member of the United States Senate, I was a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. And I was actively involved in an investigation we did of Russia's interference in the 2016 election. We produced a report, both a classified report and a public report. And what that report tells you is there was a profound amount of intentional disinformation and misinformation, targeting specific demographics to take advantage of what might be pre-existing disparities and skepticism about the role and importance of government, and doing it in a way that was absolutely designed and intended to weaken our democracy.

When I see how social media is used in that way, it causes me a very deep level of concern as someone who has a responsibility and a first priority to consider and protect our nation's security, including the security of our democracy. So what I would say about any social media site is this. I fully expect and would require that leaders in that sector cooperate and work with us who are concerned about national security, concerned

about upholding and protecting our democracy, to do everything in their power to ensure that there is not a manipulation that is allowed or overlooked that is done with the intention of upending the security of our democracy and our nation. Those are the things that concern me most of all. Before I let you go, I know you are an avid chef. I would say I'm a good cook. So I think our listeners would be curious to know what is on the menu this year for both Hanukkah and Christmas. Are you going to be the cook for both? I am definitely.

Well, you know, we had a bunch of folks over yesterday for Hanukkah, and the number was large enough that I did not. But we had latkes and we had for Christmas. My mother had and I have, a recipe every Christmas morning. She'd make chili relleno. So I'm making my mother's chili relleno. And then, so that's what I, it entails chilies and cheese. And it's just absolutely delicious. And my family loves it. And it's part of delicious and my family loves it

and it's part of our tradition, Christmas morning. And then I'm actually going to try, I've not made it before, but I love it. I'm going to do a beef wellington for dinner. But New Year's Day is the other tradition that we have. So Christmas morning for sure, New Year's Day for sure, and I make black eyed peas for good luck, collard greens for sure, New Year's Day for sure, and I make black-eyed peas for good luck,

collard greens for prosperity, and then I fry catfish, and then a few other things like macaroni and cheese. And then all the kids come over, they're friends, and just kind of open house at our house. And you cook that whole menu? I cook it, yes. I love that. Second gentleman is your sous chef? Second gentleman is my sous chef. He will sometimes,

let me just taste this for salt. But really, he's just like trying to dip a spoon in everything I'm making. Yeah, no, I love to cook and my husband loves to eat. It works out quite well. Well, thank you very much for taking the time. And I hope we get a chance to speak again soon. Thank you. I look forward to it. Thank you. All right. Well, we'll have much for taking the time. And I hope we get a chance to speak again. Thank you. I look forward to it. Thank you. All right. Well, we'll have some more of the conversation with Vice President Harris on the show tomorrow, including her thoughts on immigration policy. Until then, I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. And thank you all, as always, for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.