The NPR Politics Podcast - Law Enforcement Charge Alleged Shooter In Charlie Kirk Killing

Episode Date: September 16, 2025

Utah law enforcement have charged 22-year-old Tyler Robinson with seven counts related to the murder of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. We discuss the investigation into Robinson and what officials allege motivated him.This episode: White House correspondent Tamara Keith, domestic extremism correspondent Odette Yousef, and justice correspondent Carrie Johnson.This podcast was produced by Casey Morell & Bria Suggs, and edited by Rachel Baye. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.Listen to every episode of the NPR Politics Podcast sponsor-free, unlock access to bonus episodes with more from the NPR Politics team, and support public media when you sign up for The NPR Politics Podcast+ at plus.npr.org/politics.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Support for NPR and the following message comes from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. RWJF is a national philanthropy, working toward a future where health is no longer a privilege but a right. Learn more at RWJF.org. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. And I'm Odette Yousaf. I cover domestic extremism. And I'm Carrie Johnson. I cover the Justice Department. It is 3.59 p.m. on Tuesday, September 16th, 2025. And prosecutors in Utah have charged 22-year-old Tyler Robinson with murder in the fatal shooting of conservative activist Charlie Kirk.

Utah County attorney Jeffrey Gray announced the charges at a press conference this afternoon. In all, Robinson faces seven charges. Carrie, what did you learn from that press conference about the charges? Well, aside from murder, he faces some weapons charges. allegations of obstruction of justice, witness tampering, and committing this offense allegedly while children were present. The DA says he wants to seek a capital punishment for Robinson. And he also said that authorities had recovered DNA consistent with Robinson on the rifle and on a towel. The other thing that really stood out to me about this press conference is basically that everyone in Robinson's life is cooperating with

law enforcement, his parents have been interviewed, and his roommate and romantic partner, according to authorities, has been interviewed and shared some very potentially incriminating details, including a note that Robinson allegedly left under his keyboard. The note said, I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk, and I'm going to take it. Police said they found a photograph of that note. And then there were also a serious. of text messages. Here's a little bit of what Jeffrey Gray said about it. After reading the note, the roommate responded, what? You're joking, right? Robinson. I am still okay, my love, but am stuck in Orem for a little while longer yet.

Shouldn't be long until I can come home, but I got to grab my rifle still. To be honest, I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age. I am sorry to involve. you. Roommate. You weren't the one who did it, right? Robinson. I am. I am. I'm sorry. Roommate. Why? Robinson. Why did I do it? Roommate. Yeah. Robinson. I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out. Odette, from what we just heard and from other things we've learned from law enforcement, what can you say about Robinson's possible motivation here? Yeah, I mean, I think this was sort of the clearest evidence that we've heard from authorities so far to point to a motivation. So, you know, Carrie mentioned that everybody so far in the investigation appears to be cooperating. This roommate, who also appeared to be a romantic partner to Robinson, law enforcement says that the roommate is,

is transitioning from male to female. And what we heard were statements that Robinson allegedly was making, accusing Kirk of spreading hatred. And we know that Charlie Kirk has often shared anti-trans rhetoric. And so when we've been thinking about motivation, this, some of the evidence that was shared today

seems to be pointing toward Robinson, basically killing Kirk to, you know, silence Kirk's anti-trans activism. Based on what we know, does this shooting fit into any sort of broader pattern? So based on the allegations that we heard today, you know, if this is, in fact, tied to Robinson's feelings for trans rights or gay rights, this would represent a really significant escalation in the political violence landscape in this country right now. You know, prior to the evidence that was shared at the press conference today, when really we only had the shell casings of bullets that were found near the scene, these shell casings had etchings on them. You know, the motive was still kind of up in the air. You know, I spoke with a number of people who were able to sort of translate the online speak that seems to be sort of the originating source for some of what was etched on to. to those bullet casings, it just was kind of unclear whether they represented someone from the left

or from the right. And there were questions about whether this was an example of something called nihilistic violent extremism, which is a relatively new category of violence in this country that the FBI has designated, which represents the sort of growing trend of violent extremism that's non-ideological. But I would say that if the evidence today does hold up in court, this seems to me, at least, not to be a case of nihilistic violent extremism. We've heard a lot about those etchings on the bullet casings. And I want to listen again to Utah County Attorney Jeffrey Gray. The fired cartridge was etched. No Tice's bulge. Oh, W.O. What's This? The second cartridge, hey, fascist, catch with arrow symbols.

The third cartridge, O Bella Chow, Bella Chow, Bella Chow, Chow, Chow. The fourth cartridge, if you read this, you are gay. L-M-A-O. Odette, what did you learn about those messages or what Robinson was allegedly trying to say with those casings? So, you know, I spoke with four researchers who specialize in online culture. and sort of the intersection of online culture with real-world violence. And all of them told me that the etchings are basically just memes, you know, just online memes that don't inherently carry any meaning.

But, you know, it's been somewhat confused, I would say, since the information about these etchings came out last week because a couple of them, specifically, hey, fascist catch, and also the O'Bella Chow etching, you know, have been perceived by some to indicate leftist ideology, you know, prior to the information that we learned today at the press conference, you know, that was really still very much up in the air because, you know, the video games that these come from in sort of the digital spaces where these things are in circulation are so steeped in layers of irony and jokes that it really can be, inscrutable as to whether they map out onto any single clear political ideology.

Yeah, Carrie, it really stood out to me in this press conference. They, Gray, read another one of these text messages from Robinson to his roommate about those engravings. Remember how he was engraving bullets? The FN messages are mostly a big meme. If I see Notice, Bulge, UW on Fox News, I might have a stroke. Here's the thing. You know, in the many years I've been covering criminal investigations, often authorities had to speculate as to why people did what they did. And in this world where people text each other and post in chat rooms very often, that's important contemporaneous

evidence of people's intent and motivation. And if these text messages do, you know, hold up in court. This evidence has not yet been tested in a court of law, and that's very important. It's the prosecutor's burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Robinson committed these crimes for which he's been charged. This kind of evidence could be very powerful for a jury who will be, of course, considering the death of Charlie Kirk, a man with two young children in his home. This is quite interesting because it aligns with what researchers told me about these messages on the shell casings. You know, this one in particular notices bulge, oo-woo.

Like, that is a reference to a lewd meme that has been in circulation for maybe a decade or so. It originated on Tumblr. And it's a joke about erotic role-playing in the furry community. I mean, it has nothing to do with politics. and it's just so prevalent, you know, for somebody who is extremely online, which it appears Robinson may have been, you know, that's just sort of like locker room banter taken online. And so the thing that really struck the individuals who I spoke with who study all this is that these things are sort of meaningless, they're sort of inside jokes, and that to them

suggests that this act of violence was performative. And that's a really disturbing thing, I think, to talk about. But it is something that we have seen in acts of mass violence in the past, especially mass shootings, is that the perpetrators of the violence are, like, obsessed with how the discourse around that act of violence will unfold. They want us to be scrutinizing the meanings of the memes that they're drawing on. In many cases, they leave behind writings so that we talk on news shows about them. And all of that is part of the sort of performance of violence and a culture of performance of violence, which is real. One thing that struck me is that according to the Utah authorities, after this suspect's parents confronted him

with the video evidence, the suspect allegedly talked about wanting to, and end his own life. And instead, here we are talking about this now, and we're going to be talking about it for some time to come. All right. We're going to take a quick break, and we'll have more in a moment. Support for NPR, and the following message comes from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. RWJF is a national philanthropy, working toward a future where health is no longer a privilege, but a right. Learn more at RWJF.org. And we're back. This morning at a Senate hearing, FBI director Cash Patel was asked about the investigation into the killing of Charlie Kirk.

He told lawmakers that the FBI is interviewing more than 20 people who he said were chatting online with Robinson on Discord. Carrie, what would investigators be looking for and how would they go about this line of inquiry? Law enforcement in cases like this one are looking for advance notice that anyone may have had that a suspect was about to carry out. some kind of violent attack or even a murder. And whether anyone helped that person, say, in the acquisition of a firearm or other aid and comfort, or that they helped after the fact to help obstruct justice lie to authorities. And there's no sign yet that any of those 20 or more people involved in Discord chats with Robinson broke any law whatsoever right now. Local authorities and federal authorities just want to hear what they know and when they knew it. It's important

in part because after tragedies like this one, sometimes the feds do decide that people had information that could have helped prevent a crime like this one or that kind of frustrated law enforcement after the fact. I'm thinking here of the 2015 very tragic shooting at the African Methodist Church in Charleston, South Carolina, where Dylan Roof shot and killed nine parishioners who were at a Bible study there at that historically black church. And after the fact, one of his friends was actually charged with crimes and convicted for lying to the FBI about it after the fact. Wow. Odette, Discord keeps coming up related to recent mass shootings. Now, in this case, it's a social network that is popular with gamers and

others, but what should we know about Discord? Well, Discord is not like inherently, you know, a place where you have people with, you know, violent ideations gathering. There's nothing about Discord that necessarily predisposes it to be a platform where some of these people have been active. Discord's used for gaming, as you mentioned, and it's used for many of other uses as well, people that want sort of the chat capacity that that platform has. I think the thing that's notable about Discord is that it offers a level of privacy in the chats. So, you know, often you can't really join a Discord chat unless you're invited to join that channel. And so it's been interesting to see some of the reporting that's come out

about some of the Discord chats that Robinson allegedly was participating in because, you know, reporters are having to be shown some of those chat logs by other people that are in those chats already. And I think when it comes to this investigation, that's going to mean that law enforcement is going to have to legally request from Discord the company access to the logs that they believe Robinson was involved in. Yeah. And as a matter of fact, Capitol Hill today, the FBI director Cash Patel basically mentioned needing to go through that kind of legal process to get those chats. It also brings to mind to me the seditious conspiracy trials of some of the oathkeepers and the proud boys where they were in closed chat channels. The problem there was that

people sometimes took screenshots of those chats and saved them in very unsophisticated ways that law enforcement was able to use eventually in those trials. Yeah, I think that there's still a lot of investigating to be done. Yeah, it could be weeks, if not months. Certainly we haven't seen federal charges yet and they may still come and the feds may be moving more carefully in part because Robinson is in custody and will remain in state custody for the time being. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think that the really big question now is, you know, was he a quote unquote loan actor or was there any organizing or foreknowledge that anybody else had about this attack? Yeah, that is a very big question and one we don't have the answer to yet. But we're going to leave it there for today.

I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. I'm Odette Yousuff. I cover domestic extremism. And I'm Carrie Johnson. I cover the Justice Department. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast. R.WJF is a national philanthropy, working toward a future where health is no longer a privilege but a right. Learn more at RWJF. jf.org.