The NPR Politics Podcast - Leaders of Canada And Mexico Visit Washington To Talk COVID, Trade, And Migration

Episode Date: November 18, 2021

The summit comes after a five-year hiatus spanning the Trump administration. Despite the nations' strong relationship, disagreements over sensitive political issues have sometimes led to heightened tensions.This episode: White House correspondent Asma Khalid, White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez, and international correspondent Carrie Kahn.Connect:Subscribe to the NPR Politics Podcast here.Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Listen to our playlist The NPR Politics Daily Workout.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio station.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Support for this podcast and the following message come from the NPR Wine Club, which has generated over $1.75 million to support NPR programming. Whether buying a few bottles or joining the club, you can learn more at nprwineclub.org slash podcast. Must be 21 or older to purchase. Hi, this is Allie. I'm Wes here. And you're listening to the NPR Politics Podcast. Wes and I are dropping lobster pots in a secret cove in Rockport, Massachusetts. The current time is 12.33 p.m. Eastern Time on Thursday, November 18th. Things may have changed by the time you hear this,

and hopefully one of those changes is that Wes and I will have trapped some lobster. Enjoy the show. I will say I have never had Massachusetts lobsters. I always thought Maine was known for its lobsters. That sounds ambitious. Well, hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. And I'm Frank Ordonez. I also cover the White House. And today on the show, we've got a special guest all the way from Mexico City, NPR's Carrie Kahn.

Hey there, Carrie. Hi. I do not cover the White House. But you are joining us on the show today because today at the White House, the leaders of Canada, Mexico, and the United States are all getting together for the first time in five years. This used to be a regular routine summit, but it went on a bit of a hiatus during the presidency of Donald Trump. So let's start actually just by talking a bit about the history of this summit. You know, Franco, obviously these countries, they neighbor the United States. And so maybe because of that proximity, that is a reason why they all get

together. But beyond that, I mean, what do they usually talk about at these contracts? Yeah, I mean, they talk a lot about security, trade, and a lot, a lot of economic issues. I mean, they have so much in common. So much of their interests are intertwined, migration and security issues to be worked out with Mexico. There are deep economic bonds with Canada. You know, these meetings started a bit informally back in 2005 with a goal of easing trade and other economic tensions. And they've continued almost annually since. And there's a lot of really good reasons to do that. One, of course, is, you know, you have such close neighbors, you want everything to be smooth so that you can put your diplomatic efforts, your energy, your security energy elsewhere in other places. You don't want to be worried about your neighbors when you have so many other issues to worry about around the world.

So, Kerry, is there a different dynamic this year? You know, as Franco was mentioning, it's kind of a reunion tour. There hasn't been one of these summits since 2016. And while Joe Biden and Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau are kind of mainstays of their respective countries' politics, this is the first time that Mexico's president will attend one of these. And Carrie, I know from your reporting, he is a distinct figure compared with past Mexican leaders. He is very distinct. One thing is he never leaves the country. This is only his third time out of the country since he's taken office. He's in the middle of a six-year term. And all three of those trips have just been to the United States. He does not travel outside of the country. He's very nationalistic. He says the best foreign policy is a good national policy. He's very nationalistic. He says the best foreign policy is a good national policy. He's very inward thinking. He's also, some say, a leftist and a protectionist in some of his policies that may come up in the summit. He did have a rocky beginning, start with his

relationship with Biden. He was one of the last leaders in the world to congratulate Joe Biden on his electoral victory. He waited until after January 6th to actually call him up and congratulate him. That kind of got things off to a rocky start. But just the other day, he praised Biden saying that there has been no other U.S. president who has done more for migrants than Joe Biden. I think he's kind of forgetting Ronald Reagan there with that big amnesty bill in the 80s. So Carrie, you mentioned migration. And that to me is one of two particularly thorny issues from the Trump era that remain unresolved. The other one is trade, which we're going to talk about in a bit. But let's start by

talking about migration and some of these border issues. This has famously been a problem for Joe Biden ever since he took office. You know, Franco, what is the situation like now? You have done a lot of reporting on this. You know, the senior administration officials had a call yesterday afternoon, and they acknowledged that this is going to be one of the major talking points that the three leaders are going to have. Obviously, it's a very important issue to discuss with Mexico for all the obvious reasons, Mexico being the route that many Central Americans will take to come to the United States, or not only Central America, but many from South America and from the Caribbean as well these days. And it is a very challenging issue for this administration. And they continue to go back to saying what they're going to be looking at

is the root causes of migration. They say this over and over again. But those are real long-term objectives, long-term goals, I mean, years and years away. And to be honest, it's been years and years in the making with questionable results. So I will be very interested in hearing more about what they're going to discuss about short-term goals. How are they going to address current migration flows, very high migration flows at the moment, as well as I'll be very interested to hear if and how the discussion of Remain in Mexico comes up. Remain in Mexico is that very controversial program that President Trump instituted that required asylum seekers coming to the United States or coming to the border of the United States to wait in Mexico for their asylum cases to be heard. The Biden administration originally,

you know, tossed or ended it, but the court said they had to bring it back. So now it's in the middle of courts and being litigated. But it's an issue that neither Biden wants to really talk about nor Lopez Obrador. But I can assure you that if there's opportunities from the press, that is one of the first questions to be asked about. I mean, how do you really talk about migration and the challenges without discussing the remain in Mexico policy? I just think both leaders will say this is something that's stuck in the courts now. They both don't like to talk about it. It's not popular here in Mexico either. But Lopez Obrador really does want to talk about migration at the summit. That is

what he wants to talk about. That is his leading foreign policy issue. He has been pushing for years for there to be some sort of economic development program, some, if you would, Marshall program for Central America and Southern Mexico to really tackle the root causes. And I think what's different is that you didn't hear a lot of that language in the Trump era. There was no talk about, it was all about enforcement and crackdown and at the border. And Lopez Obrador has always tried to steer that back toward a more general look at immigration. And he wants this billion dollar plan to happen in Central America and Southern Mexico. But it hasn't

really gotten a lot. I don't know. What do you think, Franco? It hasn't really gotten a lot of play by the administration other than this language change that the Biden administration also likes to say we need to attack the root causes, but they're not really embracing Lopez Obrador's plan, which includes planting millions of trees in Central America. I do think it's an open question as to how much of that vision President Biden and his team really is wanting to adopt. But I am thinking back to Vice President Kamala Harris trip. The first international trip she took was to Mexico into Central America, where she did focus on development aid to the area. And,

you know, again, maybe it's a catchphrase, but we did hear her and we hear the administration often talk about trying to get at the root causes of migration. Yeah, I mean, it's almost like a buzzword now to focus on the root causes of migration. And that's not to diminish the importance of it. There's no question that it's so important to address those factors that are driving people. But again, these are long-term problems that need a lot of money, and they also need a lot more commitment from the leaders of those countries themselves. As experts and former officials have told me over and over and again, the United States cannot want change in those countries more than the leaders of those countries want the change themselves. All right. Let's take a quick break and we'll talk more about these meetings in just a moment.

And we're back. And Franco, I am newer to this White House beat. You covered the White House under the former President Donald Trump. And so I'm curious to hear your take on whether you think the United States relationship with either Mexico or Canada has shifted in a pronounced permanent way because of the former president. You know, I would say pronounced, yes. Permanent. I mean, I think that's to be determined. Let's take Canada, for example. There's no question that the relationship is better with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. Justin Trudeau was one of the first world I can't even imagine Biden ever even thinking of calling Trudeau, quote, two-faced as Trump did in 2019 after, you know, Trudeau was caught on video mocking Trump. I mean, that is absolutely a profound difference. But there are still very strong lingering concerns

that Trudeau and the Canadian leaders have about what is going on. And there are concerns about particularly some of the policies that President Biden is pushing for, you know, on energy, on auto manufacturing. And there are some concerns that Biden has kept some of the protectionist direction that Trump had. I mean, he's not giving that up yet. And that's a big concern of his. You know, under former President Trump, there was another shift, though, in policy, and that is this revision to NAFTA, the so-called new NAFTA, right, this new trade deal, USMCA, the United States-Mexico-Canada agreement that was forged. And it seems that from both the standpoint, there are still some unresolved trade tensions. And Franco, what are those sticking points right

now? I mean, I think the big tension points on trade for the Canadians particularly has to do with autos. There are tax credits, and this is in Biden's policies in the Buy America programs, which are, you know, I guess remnants of some of the things that President Trump was pushing for, that these tax credits would go for those who purchase electric vehicles. But the sticking point is that the tax credits go to those people who purchase electric vehicles that were made in the United States by union workers. Auto manufacturing is a huge part of the Canadian economy, and for that matter, as Mexico as well. And there's a big process in North America where some parts are built in Mexico, some parts are built in Canada. They kind of fly over, they're transported to other parts, and they're put together. So this is a huge issue and it's going to be hard to get around. Carrie, in addition to migration and trade, these leaders are expected to talk about the pandemic.

What are we expecting to hear from them around vaccines? Well, they do want to talk about economic recovery from the pandemic and how to fix some sort of problems in the supply chain and how to revitalize their economies. But also there's a millions of doses of vaccines. Those vaccines actually were initially loaned to them from the United States to both Canada and Mexico. And this is sort of a pay forward back on that loan. Franco, the return of this summit fits into President Biden's broad diplomatic vision, his insistence that America is back and it wants to work with its allies. You know, this is the same message that the president took to Europe, and it was not a particularly easy sell there. But do you feel like this vision of America is easier to sell to our neighbors. I mean, I think it's definitely going to be something that

is going to be one of the messages for this summit here. The America is back issue. And the White House is already kind of describing those same thing, you know, seeing this as a kind of a turning of the page from President Trump. I mean, there are some differences, you know, the interests of the United States and Europe, you know going to cover who's back, who's going to contribute. The economic interests are a little different. For North America, the interests are so almost obvious. Security, fighting drug, narco-trafficking, the economic trade, the number of trucks that go across the border every day, the intertwined interests in North America are so important and so obvious. You would think that this would be an easy sell because it is so important. But the scars are still very, still very much there. And there are questions like in Europe of how back America is under President Biden. So I think that's really,

you know, time will tell. But I think there's some skepticism there. All right. Well, let's leave it there for today. Carrie Khan, thank you so much, as always, for joining us. We really appreciate it. Oh, I like hanging out with you guys. It's nice to talk with you all anytime. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. And I'm Frank Ordonez. I also cover the White House. And thank you all, as always, for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.