The NPR Politics Podcast - Manafort Pleads Guilty & Kavanaugh Is Accused of Sexual Misconduct

Episode Date: September 14, 2018

Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort pleaded guilty on Friday and agreed to cooperate with special counsel Robert Mueller in his investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election. Plus, Supreme Court nominee Judge Brett Kavanaugh strongly pushed back on an allegation of sexual misconduct from more than 30 years ago. This episode: Congressional correspondent Scott Detrow, justice correspondent Carrie Johnson, White House correspondent Tamara Keith, and political editor Domenico Montanaro. Email the show at [e-mail]. Find and support your local public radio station at npr.org/stations.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Nicholas from Cleveland, Ohio, and I'm currently in line waiting to hear Barack Obama speak. This podcast was recorded at 212 Eastern on Friday, September 14th. Things may have changed by the time you hear this. For the most up-to-date news, check out the NPR One app or listen to your local member station. Thanks, and enjoy the show. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort has pleaded guilty to two felonies and is now cooperating with special counsel Robert Mueller. And the confirmation for Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh has taken a surprising twist

with revelations of a letter California Senator Dianne Feinstein received about an incident may have taken place when the judge was in high school. I'm Scott Detrow. I cover Congress. I'm Domenico Monsignor, political editor. And I'm Keri Johnson. I cover the Justice Department. All right. We're going to get to the Kavanaugh news in a few minutes. But, Keri, we're going to start with Paul Manafort. You were in court this morning. What happened?

Yeah, Paul Manafort stood up in front of the judge in a packed, packed courtroom and said, I plead guilty. Specifically, he's pleaded guilty to two conspiracy charges, conspiracy against the United States and conspiracy to obstruct justice. And Manafort now faces five years maximum on each of those charges. Importantly, Scott, he could get less time if the government decides to send a letter requesting leniency to the judge when he's sentenced. What does it mean that he's cooperating with Robert Mueller? Yeah, we don't know exactly what that means. There's been some confusion about it. But what the plea agreement says is that Manafort will cooperate fully, truthfully, completely and

forthrightly with authorities about any and all matters as to which the government deems cooperation relevant. And that includes grand jury testimony, trial testimony, and meeting with the special counsel team, even outside the presence of his lawyers. So Paul Manafort has agreed to cooperate. What exactly he's ready and willing to say, we don't yet know. Well, do you have a sense about whether that cooperation will include information about Russian interference in the election and ties to the campaign? Well, the White House, Sarah Sanders at the White House says this doesn't have anything to do with the 2016 campaign, which, by the way, Sarah Sanders points out was victorious. We know Donald Trump is the president. He won. Wait, he won? Oh, man. For real. For real. But what exactly

Paul Manafort has been telling these government lawyers in what we call proffer sessions in these private meetings he's been having with the special counsel and his lawyers remains unclear right now. And Congressman Adam Schiff from California, a Democrat who used to be a federal prosecutor, has pointed out we don't know exactly how willing Paul Manafort is going to be to cooperate or what he might say. So he had been set to go on trial again for a different set of charges. What sort of headlines would that have maybe produced? Yeah, some pretty ugly headlines, because the focus of this trial in part was going to be his interactions with political party in Ukraine and with pro-Russia government there that tried to make a political rival look very bad. And Manafort admitted today doing some lobbying inside the United States with members of Congress, people in the State Department.

And in fact, one of the prosecutors said today that Manafort got one of his clients in to meet with the former president and the former vice president in the Oval Office to make a pitch on Ukraine, which is about as high level access as you can get. It sure sounds like the uglier trial than what was mostly about financial crimes, right? Yeah, that's right. That other trial mostly revolved around money he earned from these Ukrainian lobbying efforts and how he spent it and then how he hid his losses. This trial was supposed to focus on his work as an unregistered foreign agent. And there were some people who thought maybe the president would pardon Paul Manafort before

this trial because of how ugly it could be. I wonder if he's cooperating. Obviously, we don't know what he's cooperating on, if it makes it more or less likely the president will pardon him. You know, we don't know right now. Rudy Giuliani, the president's lawyer, has said that he has discussed pardons or clemency with the president, but he's advised the president not to do it until the whole Mueller investigation ends. As to whether Paul Manafort is more or less

likely to get some kind of clemency, we don't know. We don't know what he's going to tell the special counsel, what he might testify to, and how that's going to affect the president. And we know that when President Trump talked about this publicly, the thing he praised Manafort for was not reaching an agreement with prosecutors, which he now has. Carrie, a couple more questions for you. First of all, obviously, Manafort had been found guilty about a month ago in a separate case. Does this plea deal affect that sentence in any way, or is that a separate matter? Yeah, Manafort faces about eight to 10 years in that case. Remember that jury deadlocked on

something like 10 charges for all intents and purposes as part of this deal today. Manafort has acknowledged guilt as to those deadlock charges, so the government isn't going to try him again on those things. And importantly today, Scott, Paul Manafort agreed to forfeit a huge amount of his holdings, his condo in Trump Tower in New York, his palatial estate in the Hamptons, a number of other properties in New York, some bank accounts and insurance policy. He is not only pleading guilty and facing a maximum of 10 years in D.C., he's also giving up a huge source of his wealth. Wow. So last question for you. We had been looking forward to this trial. Is there anything else now that we know is coming in the ongoing Mueller investigation or we just go back to that world of of murkiness and waiting to see what's filed next? One of the lawyers for the special counsel, Andrew Weissman, and Manafort's defense lawyer, Richard Wessling, agreed to report back to the court on November 16th how things were going with Manafort's case and his cooperation. We also, of course, have to see Michael Flynn, President Trump's former national security advisor, sentenced at some time or another. As to whether the special counsel is pursuing new avenues, all we can go on

is reports from witnesses to his grand jury. We know that they're interviewing a lot of people related to Roger Stone, a longtime friend and advisor to Donald Trump. Roger Stone denies wrongdoing, has not yet been charged with anything. Domenico, this comes a little less than a month after that, that shocking news day where you had Manafort being found guilty and Michael Cohen, another top Trump advisor, his longtime lawyer, pleading guilty to separate crimes in a separate courtroom. That made a lot of headlines. This is another guilty plea.

Do you see this elevating this into something that could affect how voters vote in the midterms? Well, we're less than two months away from those midterms and any of these kinds of headlines are certainly not going to be positive for the Republican Party and for the president himself. I mean, one Democrat told me that this certainly hangs like a dark cloud over this election. They feel like they don't even need to talk about it. They're focused on health care and wages, for example, because they realize they believe that the president will lash out.

He'll talk about these things and it will only hurt him with independence. All right. NPR Justice Correspondent Kerry Johnson. Thank you very much, Kerry. Good to see you guys. All right, Domenico, you stay put. You, Tamara Keith, and I are going to try and figure out this Kavanaugh development. Let's do it.

All right, we'll be right back. Support for this NPR podcast and the following message come from the Ford Foundation. Working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide to address inequality in all its forms. Learn more at FordFoundation.org. Hey, it's Guy Raz here. And on the latest TED Radio Hour, how to talk about death candidly. Being able to accept that someday I will decompose. There is something comforting to me about that. You can find the TED Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts. Okay, we're back. And NPR White House correspondent Tamara Keith is here. Hello. Hello.

So there's a lot to sort out here. And let's start with this cryptic statement that California Senator Dianne Feinstein put out yesterday. I will read it and we will go from there. I have received information from an individual considering the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court. That individual strongly requested confidentiality, declined to come forward or press the matter further, and I have honored that decision. I have, however, Court. That individual strongly requested confidentiality, declined to come forward or press the matter further, and I have honored that decision. I have, however, referred the matter to federal investigative authorities. That was pretty cryptic. We learned more about what this was about this morning with a report in The New Yorker. Can you

fill us up to speed, Tam? So The New Yorker article, which is written by Jane Mayer and Ronan Farrow, outlines allegations of something that happened when Brett Kavanaugh was in high school. According to this article, and there's a young woman who, well, frankly, isn't that young anymore, but was young in the late 1970s, early 1980s, when they were in high school, she sent a letter to Senator Diane Feinstein, the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee. That letter contains allegations that during an encounter at a party, Kavanaugh held her down and attempted to force himself on her. This is what The New Yorker is reporting. The article goes on to say she claimed in the letter that Kavanaugh and a classmate of his, both of whom had been drinking, turned up music that was playing in the room to conceal the sound of her protests and that Kavanaugh covered her mouth with his hand. But she was able to free herself and nothing else happened.

Domenico, what has Brett Kavanaugh said about this? Well, through the White House, Kavanaugh has responded saying, I categorically and unequivocally deny this allegation. I did not do this back in high school or at any time. So pretty categorical there from him. Tam, there's a lot to fill in here. First of all, when this matter first arose, how Dianne Feinstein learned of it and what she did or did not tell fellow lawmakers. Right. I mean, that first statement was cryptic, and this whole thing is a little bit hazy. But one thing that's very important is that the woman making these allegations

wanted to and has continued to remain anonymous. And that is no doubt part of the calculation here. Dianne Feinstein, she got this letter back in July. So well before Kavanaugh's confirmation hearing. And, you know, now now just this week, we know that she gave the letter to the FBI on Wednesday night, Thursday, according to a source that I've spoken with, Thursday around noon, the FBI sent to the White House an addendum to his background investigation that added that letter. That was sent to White House counsel Don McGahn. So this letter has now been seen inside the White House. And McGahn immediately sent it to the Judiciary Committee to Chuck Grassley, Senator Chuck Grassley.

And we've heard from Grassley since this all came out this afternoon, haven't we? Yes, we have heard from Grassley. And he is really trying to downplay it. He also distributed a letter that was signed by 65 women who knew Brett Kavanaugh in high school. And this letter has echoes of other letters that have come out in the last year or so as part of the Me Too movement, where high profile men are accused of very terrible things. And then women who know them and love them and have worked with them for years put out letters and statements saying, but that's not the person I know. And what the sort of the culture has been through over the last year makes this moment for Brett Kavanaugh a little bit more fraught and complicated than it would have been three or four years ago, probably.

And just to refresh everybody on the timing here, the confirmation hearings were last week. The Judiciary Committee met earlier this week to vote on Kavanaugh's nomination, but Democrats delayed that for a week, which is one of the few tools Democrats had to delay Kavanaugh's nomination. Republicans have wanted to get him confirmed in time for the beginning of the fall term, and he's scheduled for a committee vote next week. And in his statement, Grassley said that committee vote is proceeding as planned, right? Right. The Judiciary Committee, which has been split along party lines, really everything has been basically 11-10 out of this committee, and that's where it would be expected to be next Thursday. But Grassley has said that it's going to go forward. And if anything is going to come out on this in a more concrete way or more, it's going to be over the next four or five days. John Kyle, the former Arizona senator who's filled his vacant seat. Susan Collins has been a key voice all along, a key vote.

She had indicated that she was very pro-Judge Kavanaugh, but that she was going to wait until after the hearings until she announced whether or not she would vote for him. So this is the type of development that I think her reaction would be key to look for. And Collins and Murkowski, Lisa Murkowski from Alaska, have said that they still have some lingering questions about Kavanaugh and that they want him to answer. Part of that has been some of these committee confidential documents that have been released by some of the Democrats on the committee. So they have some questions about his past testimony, for example, on his role with prepping various judges.

So they're going to have some questions for him. And there's a lot of politics around whether or not some of these Democrats are going to get on board Kavanaugh's nomination, because there are a lot of Democrats running in pretty red states for reelection this year who have to make a political decision on whether or not they're going to support or oppose Kavanaugh. Yeah. All right. So we will we will be following this and we will talk about it in the podcast as soon as there's a new development, as soon as we know more. And that's it for today. I'm Scott Detrow. I cover Congress. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, political editor. And a reminder that our new radio show starts this weekend. You can catch the politics show from NPR on your local public radio station. Go to your station website to see what time it airs. Thanks for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.