The NPR Politics Podcast - Meet Mike Johnson, The Republican Just Elected Speaker Of The House

Episode Date: October 25, 2023

The Louisiana Republican is known as an easy friend among his colleagues, a devout Christian and fervent social conservative who joined the majority of his Republican peers who voted against certifying Joe Biden's presidential election win.He won unanimous party support in a vote before the full House — and now faces the tough job of leading the Republican conference and keeping the government open.This episode: campaign correspondent Sarah McCammon, political correspondent Susan Davis, and congressional correspondent Deirdre Walsh.The podcast is produced by Casey Morell and Elena Moore. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.Unlock access to this and other bonus content by supporting The NPR Politics Podcast+. Sign up via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Tina and Mindy. We are at the airport in Havana, Cuba. We are waiting for our flight home to Michigan and Virginia. This podcast was recorded at 2.58pm Eastern Time on Wednesday, October 25th, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but we are already planning our next adventure. Here's the show. I hope they're ready for that cool Michigan air coming back from Havana. I'm ready for my next adventure, too, to be frank with you. I'm definitely ready to head to an airport soon. It's always an adventure on the Hill, though. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover the presidential campaign. I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics.

I'm Deirdre Walsh. I cover Congress. The Republicans have ended their infighting, at least for the moment, after three weeks, and they've elected a Speaker of the House unanimously. Therefore, the Honorable Mike Johnson of the state of Louisiana, having received a majority of the votes cast, is duly elected Speaker of the House of Representatives for the 118th Congress. He was the fourth nominee for Speaker since Kevin McCarthy was voted out, and Johnson won unanimously and then addressed the House. We know that there's a lot going on in our country, domestically and abroad,

and we are ready to get to work again to solve those problems, and we will. Our mission here is to serve you well, to restore the people's faith in this house, in this great and essential institution. What was his message? Johnson seemed pretty clear that he wanted to bring some levity to the moment, especially after three weeks of what have been particularly ugly and personal Republican politics.

He sort of made a joke at the top about how his wife couldn't make it to be there to see him be elected speaker because they couldn't find a flight to get to Washington because he noted all of this kind of happened very suddenly. His nomination came together very late last night. He also made a point to seem sort of contrite to acknowledge that this has been a problem for Republicans and that they have to show that they have work to do to govern and to prove to the American people that they deserve to be in a bit of a media background. He used to be a talk show host. He seemed to me pretty comfortable speaking, addressing the house like this, knowing that it's probably being carried live. And he also said that the first priority of his speakership is to bring a resolution supporting Israel to the floor. And that could be voted on as soon as today. His message seemed to be, we need to get back to work and we need to do it really fast. Okay. So we know this guy has a wife. We know he's from Louisiana. We know he's coming into this job at a tough time, but tell us more. I mean, what do we need to know about him as a person?

I mean, I think he tried to lay out his personal story, right? The son of a firefighter talked about his own family struggle dealing with losing a father to cancer and his start of his political career. But in terms of his profile in Congress, Mike Johnson's a social conservative. He was elected in 2016. He's a member of the House Judiciary Committee. He's been focused on a lot of issues in that committee and during his tenure know, cultural issues in terms of abortion, other issues that I think are going to come up as Democrats focus on, you know, his record going forward. He is also a top Trump loyalist. He was an impeachment manager, part of former President Trump's team. He also wrote and authored a legal brief around the 2020 election to try to challenge the results in several states, which didn't move, but it was a big part of his, you know, selling point to a lot of Republican colleagues.

He's currently a member of the Republican leadership. Now he becomes the top Republican leader. He also chaired this group, this large group of fiscal conservatives. He appears to have not made many enemies in his tenure in Congress. And I think that is a big bonus for him as he takes on this job because the three Republican nominees for speaker ahead of him that failed sort of dealt with a lot of holdouts that had personal grudges and personality conflicts with the other nominees. Mike Johnson seems to be able to at least relationship-wise unite these very different factions. Whether or not he can bring them together to legislate is a whole other issue. Deirdre, you mentioned Johnson is a Trump loyalist. Something Democrats have been emphasizing

and that people should know is he was among the 147 Republicans who voted not to certify President Biden's election in the House. Now, this unanimous vote was quite a pivot from the chaos of the past few weeks that we've been talking about quite a bit on this podcast. What changed? You know, I don't think you can understate how much exhaustion played a factor here for Johnson. I don't think that anyone would argue that he could have won this race unanimously 20 days ago, right? Like, he benefited from a process in which Republicans did need to see the sort of establishment leaders rise and fail, and how could they find a consensus? And I think Deirdre is totally right when she talks about the fact that he didn't really have any enemies. It might seem simple, but I do think personal relationships actually matter a lot in these leadership elections. And Johnson has credibility with a lot of the really decisive factions within the conference. He has tremendous credibility among social conservatives. He's an evangelical. Prior to coming to Congress, he was, you know, what they would consider a warrior for the cause, fighting for any number of culturally conservative issues as a private lawyer and for activist groups. He comes from a district with a big military installation. He sits on the Armed Services Committee. He provides a lot of comfort to those sort of establishment Republicans that he's not going to mess with the Pentagon or do

anything there. And he's voted pretty consistently conservative on across the board. And he Trump likes him, right? Like Trump was also a big factor here in this race. Trump could not guarantee that he could get you the nomination, but his opposition could certainly tank it for you as it contributed to Tom Emmer here. So of all the people that you need to keep happy, Mike Johnson was a really palatable guy. He's also really untested. I'm not sure that someone is elevated to the speakership with as thin a leadership resume as he has. He's entering it with goodwill. I think a lot of Republicans will give him an initial ability to sort of navigate and negotiate these things. But as we've said many times, this speaker, the new speaker faces all the same problems that the last speaker did.

And we just don't know how he's going to navigate what is an immediate intense legislative pressure and agenda that he's going to have to resolve over the coming days and weeks. He's also developed a reputation as a policy wonk. A lot of people respect him and think that he's thoughtful. A lot of members were him and think that he's thoughtful. A lot of members were saying that last night as sort of people fell off the list in these multiple ballots. People who sort of came back to him as sort of a solid choice. I also think that it's going to be a big test for him politically with such a slim margin that House Republicans hold. Part of the job of the speaker is to go out around

the country and be a national figure and raise a lot of money to keep the majority and to be able to help candidates in swing districts. His profile is a lot more conservative. Democrats are already kind of nicknaming him MAGA Mike. Will that be a factor? And will they really be able to paint him as any sort of foil when he has such a low profile now? I mean, I think that's still to be determined. So you've mentioned his alliance with Trump, his relationships across the conference. You know, he even managed to win over folks who had voted to oust Kevin McCarthy, setting off this whole thing. How much do you think this was about Republicans actively choosing Johnson, seeing somebody who could sort of bring the party

together? And how much was it the fatigue that we were talking about? I think that Republicans realized that if Johnson couldn't get there, then the next realistic path was going to be for a group of moderates who had been increasingly agitating to resolve this, that they were increasingly willing to cross the aisle and work with Democrats to try to find some sort of consensus governing path. And that was not palatable to the vast majority of Republicans. And I think that the longer this went on, the more realistic that seemingly unrealistic scenario became. And I think he benefited from that as well. The challenge, I think, for Mike Johnson is, you know, can he work with Democrats? No clue. You know,

he has built his reputation in Congress as being sort of a stalwart conservative with maybe collegial relationships across the aisle. But substantively, there's not much you can point to. I will say that in his speech, he sort of made a point to say to Hakeem Jeffries, I think you're, you know, a good American who's fighting for the good of the country, and I will work that in his speech, he sort of made a point to say to Hakeem Jeffries, I think you're a good American who's fighting for the good of the country and I will work with you. That remains to be seen because, look, there is no way, there is no way to pass 12 annual spending bills and aid packages to Israel and Ukraine without Democratic votes. Full stop, period. And so I honestly have no idea how Mike Johnson keeps the commitments to the right to keep spending levels low, to make all sorts of policy changes in these spending bills. There's a lot of skepticism on Ukraine aid. A lot of Republicans don't want to write

as big a check as Joe Biden is asking for, how he actually gets something signed into wall that doesn't create the same amount of internal Republican governing problems that it caused Kevin McCarthy. I think there'll be a little bit of a grace period for Mike Johnson because people are relieved that the House can actually function again. A lot of members I talked to in the last three weeks were saying it was embarrassing to go home. And people were like, just get somebody in there, get back to work. So I think, you know, if he's able to do that and pass bills and avoid a shutdown, I think he'll get through potentially the first big test. But then the rubber meets the road, like Sue said. I mean, how do you negotiate 12 annual spending bills with

the Democratic Senate and a Democrat in the White House, where what Republicans want, which is major spending cuts to all domestic programs, essentially, are really kind of dead on arrival in the Senate. So it's sort of postponing, potentially, if he's able to get a stopgap bill through in mid-November, postponing, you know, the reckoning for him potentially to early next year. All right. With that, we're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll take a closer look at what those next steps might be. And we're back.

I wouldn't imagine now that Mike Johnson will get to enjoy much of a honeymoon period or grace period, like Deirdre said. But, you know, he is up against a November 17th funding deadline to keep the government open. As we said, has to work with a Democratic-controlled Senate on that. The effort to work with Democrats, as we all recall, is sort of what doomed Kevin McCarthy in this job. Sue mentioned that Johnson is untested. Do we have any sense of how he might navigate that? And, I mean, what are the chances that the government shuts down on November 17th? short-term stopgap funding bill. I think you'd have to be a real nihilist in the Republican party to think that you could have no speaker for three weeks and then three weeks later be

seen as the party that shuts down the government. But we live in curious times. Right. Definitely. That was part of Mike Johnson's pitch, even when he was inside the House Republican conference saying, here's what my plan would be. He admitted the thing that got them into this mess was something he was going to have to push, which was a continuing resolution, a stopgap bill to fund federal agencies as House Republicans continue would try to pass a CR through sometime in January, maybe early next year, and then try to move all the individual spending bills through. They're even putting one on the agenda for this week. After they do a bill focusing on support for Israel, they're going to actually move one of their own spending bills. And then they're going to try to get back together and figure out how to move the rest of them, because that really tied up House Republicans for a lot

of time before they ousted Kevin McCarthy. So, you know, I think we'll have to see. But I mean, these are the kinds of, you know, detailed decisions at a time where Speaker Johnson stressed the idea of a decentralized House of Representatives. We'll have to see how that works when a lot of different people from a lot of different factions are pushing different kinds of cuts that they want in these spending bills. What does a decentralized House of Representatives even mean? I think he means that when they say that, that they want more power to be outside of the Speaker's office and within the committee chairs, and let the committee chairs and the people on the committees of jurisdiction drive the agenda versus party leadership deciding what everything is and then trying to jam votes at the very end of the process.

And does that work? If it worked, it would happen more frequently. You know, oftentimes speakers have to rein in committee chairs who are trying to do things that might not be able to pass on the floor of the House. But, you know, that is actually one of the big confrontations that's going to be so complicated to navigate these 12 spending bills and the stopgap is that the Senate has maintained their end of that bargain and they have passed their bills out of committee with huge bipartisan margins, sometimes unanimously out of committee. And the Senate is working through the first sort of tranche of those spending bills at those levels. Now, the House is passing all of their spending bills at fiscal years like fiscal year 2022, like way below what the Senate is doing. And they're saying they won't budge. And those are two really unreconcilable positions. Either you have to believe that Senate Democrats in the White House are just going to agree to walk away from the terms of a bill that was signed into law.

Or you have to believe that House Republicans are going to have to budge and get some Democratic support to advance their spending bills. That was the problem that was facing Kevin McCarthy, although Kevin McCarthy arguably created that problem for himself. But can Mike Johnson navigate that process? I really don't know, because I don't know what happens to any speaker who brings bills to the floor that have to pass with 150 Democratic votes in this political environment. And let's not forget, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think the rules have changed, right? I mean, Johnson is up against the same rule that allows one member of his conference to call for a vote to oust him. Sure, it absolutely does.

Exactly. They haven't changed that at all. So as the Congress tries to move forward with funding for some of these key priorities, like aid to Israel and Ukraine, potentially. What do you expect from Johnson? This is going to be a huge challenge for him. There's a $105 billion ask on the table from the Biden administration for aid to both of these conflicts. Mike Johnson has voted against additional aid for Ukraine. The House Republican Conference is split down the middle on this issue.

There's pretty close to, you know, overwhelming bipartisan support for additional aid to Israel. And there's a whole debate right now about whether to split those issues apart. And that was a big issue in the speaker's race for the last three weeks. You know, I think Johnson is going to try to move Israel aid alone, but he has members of his own conference that are very concerned about Ukraine falling off the table or missing out as this package goes through. I thought it was really interesting in his speech as he took the gavel where he did talk about how important it was to preserve America's role in the world. He didn't say anything specifically about Ukraine, but that, to my ear, seemed to be a way where he was trying to walk the line and show,

you know, members of his own conference that he hears them, and this is going to be something they're going to have to work out. One thing I'm also watching for, too, is not just what do Republicans have to negotiate with Democrats, but what are they trying to get from them? And also in his speech, he made a point to talk about the U.S.-Mexico border and the situation on the border there. And this has become a huge priority for Republicans. The Biden administration has included money in that supplemental spending request for the border. But I think Republicans might want even more than that or at least more policy concessions. So you can see the negotiating space where Republicans want more border and the

White House wants more Ukraine. There is a navigable, negotiable space on a lot of this stuff. But it's just a matter of that a lot of people at that table are going to be very tested. And then there's going to be Mike Johnson, who is very untested. All right. I think that's where we'll leave it for today. Let's end it there. Hoping this is our last podcast on speaker fights for a while or maybe forever. Maybe at least for the year. I'll take at least the rest of the year. Well, thanks, Susan and Deirdre, for all of your hardworking and relentless reporting on this. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover the presidential campaign. I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics. I'm Deirdre Walsh. I cover Congress.

Thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.