The NPR Politics Podcast - Midterm Update: Voter Suppression In Georgia; Trump Stumps For Former Rival In TX

Episode Date: October 23, 2018

Half a million voters were purged from the voter roll by the Republican candidate for governor in Georgia. How are voter purges influencing elections this year? And in Texas, the president rallied for his former rival Senator Ted Cruz. Why does the president need to rally for a candidate in a heavily Republican state? This episode: White House correspondent Tamara Keith, national political correspondent Mara Liasson, political editor Domenico Montanaro, WABE reporter Johnny Kauffman, and KUT reporter Ashley Lopez. Email the show at [e-mail]. Find and support your local public radio station at npr.org/stations.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hello, this is Mark from Des Moines, Iowa, where I just finished voting in the election. This podcast was recorded at 4.06 p.m. on Tuesday, the 23rd of October. Things may have changed by the time you listen to this. Enjoy the show. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. With less than two weeks to go, we're going to look at key races around the country. In Georgia, the Republican candidate for governor is responsible for purging half a million voters from the rolls. And President Trump headed to Texas to stump for his old rival, Ted Cruz. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

I'm Mara Liason, national political correspondent. And today we're bringing in Johnny Kaufman from member station WABE in Atlanta. Hey, Johnny. Hello. You've been investigating this voter purge in Georgia, along with APM reports and reveal. What did you find? In July of 2017, this is a few months after the Republican secretary of state, Brian Kemp, declared that he was going to run for governor. In July, there were about 100,000 people removed from Georgia's voter rolls for not voting.

And this is part of the voter purge process. It's regular. It happens every two years. There was a total of over half a million people removed at that same time. And so you say that voter purges are a regular thing. Is that a regular thing in Georgia or is that a regular thing everywhere? Voter purges are normal everywhere in terms of people who have moved. They're removed from the rolls or people who have died. Those people are removed from the rolls. Felons in some states are removed from the rolls. But there are only, I think, at least nine states, including Georgia. Ohio is another big one that remove people for not voting. This is use it or lose it is the idea.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Use it or lose it. Mara, what does it mean to be purged from the rolls? What it means is that you have to register all over again. And it means that it's harder for you to vote. Sometimes you don't know if you've been purged. This is something that has happened in other states, generally states that have Republican administrations. The risk here is that somebody could be removed and not know that they've been removed. And in states like Georgia and a number of others, there's not same day registration.

So somebody gets excited about the election, but they're not on the list. They show up at the polls and they can't vote. They're just out of luck. And they had no idea that they were purged. Johnny, is there any pattern to who is being removed? Do you have any sense of who these folks are? What we did find is that in some counties, there was a disproportionate number of people of color who were removed from the rolls for not voting. That finding, we couldn't take it to the state level, but in those individual cases, we could say that in some counties. So basically, the number of people of color that were removed was disproportionate to their share of the electorate. One of the interesting things about these numbers, actually, is that this year, in that 2017 bunch, in Georgia, at least, there were if you

say if you registered, and you voted for the first time in 2008, you were really excited by President Obama, and you decided to cast a ballot in that race. And then you didn't really pay attention to politics after that, and you didn't vote and you didn't respond to notices from the state. This in 2017, that's the that's the purge where you would have been removed. So guess who that affects more? Young people and minorities. Seven years later, they aren't as young as they used to be. Right. But there's still people who voted for Barack Obama. Well, and when you talk about in particular particular, people of color having access to voting, there's this thing called the Voting Rights Act that used to be pretty robust.

And then the Supreme Court ruled in a obstacles to African Americans voting, particularly in the South. And if you are a Voting Rights Act state, you are under strict supervision. They wanted to make sure that you didn't institute some kind of literacy test or a poll tax or any of those things that we heard about in history books that were designed to stop African Americans from voting. Now that these states have been removed from the supervision of the Voting Rights Act, because the Supreme Court decided that this kind of racial discrimination was a thing of the past, states are free to come up with different, more creative obstacles, certain kinds of voter ID. Maybe they close a bunch of polling places in rural areas, areas where there's a big minority population, or they make it so you can't vote on

a college campus. So all of these things that might have been ruled a violation of the Voting Rights Act are no longer. And I thought that in part, the court sort of turfed it to Congress and said, Congress, if you feel like this needs to pass an updated Voting Rights Act. Right. And Congress simply hasn't done that. Why does everything get left to the court? Congress can't do its job. But that's another podcast. This governor's race in Georgia, where you are, in some ways seems to be all about voting rights and who can vote and who's on the rolls and who's not. Can you sort of explain why it's become such a central part of this campaign? Yeah, there are like a couple of levels to that. The first one is, so we have Republican Secretary of State Brian Kemp is running against Democrat Stacey Abrams. So Kemp is responsible for overseeing elections in the state and in this race that he's currently running in. Abrams and Kemp have sparred, fought over voting

access, who can vote, since at least 2014. Kemp was Secretary of State at the time. Abrams founded this group called the New Georgia Project, which was all about registering people of color, these low propensity voters, registering them and getting them to the polls. And there were some applications that her group filed that got held up by Kemp. It went into the courts. Abrams eventually, that case was thrown out by the judge. But they've continued to fight over this thing, right? Abrams eventually that case was thrown out by the judge. But they've continued to fight over this thing. Right. Abrams lost that that court case. Her group would say that, well, they still eventually got some of those applications on the rolls.

So they won. I mean, there's even contention over how that whole tiff like ended up. That's amazing. This is a rivalry that goes back to 2014. Yeah. And there was investigation into voter fraud, into Abrams's group fraudulent applications. None of that was substantiated. But there are some cases of individual canvassers who are working for contractors who their cases are as secretary of state because they say he can't be an honest broker. Like this is right on the face of it. That's an interesting question.

How can you run for governor and oversee the mechanics of your own election? We're talking about Georgia. But is this something bigger than Georgia? Oh, it's much bigger than Georgia. This voting access, ballot access, I think, is the civil rights issue of our day. And that is certainly how Democrats feel about it. It's a rallying cry for Democrats around the country. In a lot of these states that are heading toward being majority minority, like Georgia, Republicans have, and many of them have said this in public, and as a matter of fact, Brian Kemp was even quoted as saying, look, what's happening, they're going out there and they're registering all of

these African Americans, and that's bad for Republicans. The fact is that the more people who vote, the worse it is for Republicans in most of these races. So the question is, should it be easy to vote or hard? And that's the big debate. I mean, Democrats wanted to be as easy as possible, obviously, with protections against fraud or against tampering. And Republicans, when they get into office, tend to enact these laws that make it much, much harder. There's been a debate going on in Georgia for years, particularly since I think Obama was elected over voting. And there's no debate that Republicans in Georgia, it's been a Republican-controlled legislature for a long time, have erected more obstacles to voting. They would say that those obstacles are important to prevent fraud, like you said, Mara.

But there's no evidence of fraud, at least voter impersonation fraud, which is the thing they say they're protecting against. That's somebody going to the polls and pretending to be somebody else. So this brings us back to this issue, right? Is voting a right or is it a privilege? And it's pretty clear in Georgia that voting is a privilege, at least like the way that it's set up right now. And I wanted to kind of get into this a little bit more. So I spoke to a Republican strategist. His name's Brian Robinson, who's worked with members of Congress. He's worked with our current governor here. And he really told me, he told me straight up that voting is a right and a privilege. So like in particular, when it comes to these purges and people who are removed for not

voting, Robinson says, well, there needs to be this bar in place. Someone needs to be engaged enough and aware enough of the registration rules that they get signed up before the election and they know what their status is. If the presidential election and in fact two presidential elections don't get you out, I don't know what it's going to take to get you out. And I don't care what color you are, what your partisanship is. I think that's a fair standard. Robinson says people who are removed for not voting, they're not really voters. He doesn't consider them voters. And he thinks that for citizens to vote, they need to show this certain level of engagement. And otherwise, he says it creates what he called, quote, distorted electorate, which he wasn't able to explain to me more.

But that's his words. This is so interesting to me because this is going to become a bigger and bigger issue. When Democrats get back into power, whenever that may be on the federal level or the state level, they're going to be looking at all sorts of ways to make voting easier, whether it's making Election Day a holiday, whether it's automatic voter registration. So the thing that's so interesting is up until now Republicans have said we have to have these restrictions to prevent against fraud but when the president tried to set up this commission to find the so-called three million illegal aliens who voted in 2016 for Hillary Clinton it fell apart because they couldn't find any evidence of

that. Now they are reverting to this new argument that you just heard Brian Robinson give, that it's a special privilege that if you don't vote, you lose your chance to vote. Abrams would be the first African-American woman elected governor, right? And her whole strategy is focused on boosting turnout amongst people of color and boosting turnout amongst these low propensity voters. So not only have Abrams and Kemp fought over these laws and policies before, it's sort of key to her campaign and her ability to win, she would say, to be able to turn out as many of these voters as possible. And so that just kind of raises the stakes around some of these policies and some of these obstacles. And I think it makes the obstacles almost more consequential,

especially because there's not a lot of undecided voters. So it's really about who can motivate their supporters enough to overcome those obstacles to take the time and actually cast a ballot. But is there early voting in Georgia? There is, yes. People are voting right now. Wow. There have been really long lines and early voting turnout has been really high here like it's been in other parts of the country. And what's so interesting is despite all these battles about voting access, we are heading toward perhaps a historically high turnout election for a midterm. We are going to keep an eye on this race all the way through to

election day and after. So NPR's Mara Liason and WABE's Johnny Kaufman, thanks to you both. Thank you. Thanks. And we're going to let you guys go. And when we get back, we're going to talk about why Senator Ted Cruz needed his old rival, President Trump, to stump for him in Texas. We'll be right back. Support for this podcast and the following message come from Grow with Google. Digital skills are becoming more and more important in today's economy. That come from Grow With Google. Digital skills are becoming more and

more important in today's economy. That's why Grow With Google is providing free online training and tools to help Americans learn the skills they need to succeed. Learn more about Grow With Google and get started by visiting google.com slash grow. More than 20 years. That's how long Olympic gymnastics doctor Larry Nassar abused the girls and women who came to see him for treatment. Believed, a new podcast from Michigan Radio and NPR, digs into how he got away with it for so long. And we're back and joining me now is our own Domenico Montanaro, who is on FaceTime from Houston and at KUT in Austin, Ashley Lopez. Hey, guys. Hello. Hey. So, Domenico, last night you went to President Trump's rally in Houston.

What was it like? It was a fascinating scene. You know, there were thousands of people. I mean, they said there were something like 16,000 people inside. This was at the Toyota Center where the Houston Rockets play. And now this is Texas. There's a lot of Republicans. They certainly can get a huge crowd here for that. But it was really important because President Trump came in to try to help Senator Ted Cruz over the finish line in this closer than expected Senate race. And it was a huge ovation for both Trump and Cruz. God bless Texas.

And God bless President Donald Trump. Vote for Ted Cruz and vote Republican. And a lot of people here said they're really glad that Cruz got over some of his bitterness with Trump because they might have stayed home otherwise. That bitterness being, among other things, that President Trump during the presidential campaign claimed that Ted Cruz's father may have been involved with the JFK assassination. Among other things, yes. He said that he promised to, quote, spill the beans on Cruz's wife ominously, whatever that meant. There were, you know, back and forths where Cruz called Trump a pathological liar. Ashley, why was President

Trump in Texas? I mean, the Senate race is getting a lot of attention, but this is Texas. I mean, the Senate race is getting a lot of attention, but this is Texas. Yeah. And I think that's why he's there. I mean, this has taken Republicans nationwide by surprise. I don't think anyone thought this was a state that Republicans would have to, one, spend money in, and two, fight for and send the president to. But, you know, Beto O'Rourke, the challenger in this race, has run a really solid campaign, has raised a bunch of money, like more money than any other Senate race in the country. And yeah, so Republicans felt forced to kind of stand their ground in a state that they didn't ever expect to be fighting in. And there's also a bunch of down ballot races, too, right? Like Texas is a state where there are a lot of surprisingly a lot of competitive House races.

Yeah. Hillary Clinton won a couple of congressional seats here that are held by Republican incumbents. And so that's also a big problem if there isn't there aren't enough, you know, like ginned up Republicans to head to the polls on Election Day. That could be bad news for some of the congressmen who have been here in Texas for a while. Even though, like, if you look at the polls, it looks like Ted Cruz is going to win. It looks like it's going to be closer than anyone expected. And that's a big problem because it could affect some of the closer races down ballot. Absolutely. I mean, you know, Beto O'Rourke has smashed fundraising records. And if there's one thing that Republican operatives pay attention to, it's money.

They want self-funding candidates. They want candidates who can raise a lot of money. They knew what Ted Cruz's favorable ratings were going into this race. He's not that well-liked as compared to other folks statewide. So they knew he was potentially vulnerable. And then seeing all this money that was coming in, even from out of state, that was one thing that you had people on stage last night warning about. Greg Abbott, the state's governor, Dan Patrick, who's the lieutenant governor, raising a very strong case saying, you need to get out to the polls. We see what's going on here. Look at all the energy and enthusiasm on the Democratic side. Look at all the money coming in from, quote-unquote, California. And let's not turn Texas into California. O'Rourke doesn't reflect Texas values was a lot of the those down ballot House races and congressmen who really need his base to go out and support them.

Yeah, I was talking late last week with Bill Stepien, who's the political director for the White House. who go to these rallies, they've found 30 percent of them are not traditional midterm voters and may have only voted for the first time in 2016. You know, that the folks who go to these rallies, at least 30 percent of them, they say, are there for the party. That makes a lot of sense because I talked to a bunch of people last night who said that, they drove far distances. They had a mother and a daughter who drove from Dallas, which is four hours away. You know, you know, Texas is pretty big. And it's driven across it. Yes. None of these cities are very close. There was another man from LaGrange, Texas, who, you know, they all sort of said, look, you know, I don't know if I would vote necessarily in the midterm if Ted Cruz wasn't

completely supporting Donald Trump now. Maybe I would have stayed home. But now we need to keep the Senate. Yeah. And what Stepien was saying, the political director, is that's for them the point of these rallies is to convince these people. That's why you hear President Trump saying, I may not be on the ballot, but all these other people are and I need you to vote for them. That's not necessarily what presidents always say in midterm years when, you know, people, voters say that they want good, for the next two years, then you need to go out and vote for these tremendous Republican lawmakers. They are tremendous. Thank you, fellas. Ashley, is Texas Trump country? Well, I would say Texas is a Republican state.

Traditionally, Republicans have done really well here. And even though Trump did win the presidential election here, it was by a slimmer margin than a lot of other presidential elections that have taken place here in recent years. He only won by a single digit, nine points, which surprised a lot of Republicans and probably surprised a lot of Democrats, which is why, you know, a pretty decent candidate like Beto O'Rourke looked at those numbers and thought, well, maybe there's an opening here. We'll see how red the state remains. But the state has been for a very long time a Republican stronghold. One thing that President Trump has been focusing on a lot in the last few days has been, even more than usual, immigration. There's this caravan of migrants in Mexico right now headed north.

Obviously, immigration is not the only issue that matters to Latino voters, but there is a large Latino population in Texas. How is this playing? Well, it depends who you ask, right? Like, even on immigration, Latino voters don't vote as a monolith. There are some Latinos who have been here, you know, for generations. So they don't have the same concerns about immigration as Latino populations that are newer to the state. That's one thing. But to the people who have like maybe mixed status families, this is a huge deal. And, you know, it feels like,

you know, almost a direct attack. So and, you know, it's hard to say whether or not that's a motivating force to get people to the polls. The thing to remember about Texas is that even though we have a large Latino population, they are the least likely to go vote. This is a non-voting state and Latinos make up a big share of that non-voting population. Traditionally, how do Latino voters vote in Texas? And then now younger Latinos tend to be a little more liberal leaning. But historically, you know, Latinos have been have have voted for both Democrats and Republicans. It just depends, like what race we're talking about and where in the state we for Senator Cruz. I mean, you know, he talked about the caravan that's coming up through Central America. And he, you know, he created this whole, like, attempt at a closing argument that I think that they're going to try to clean up a little bit, talking about how this election is about the caravan and Kavanaugh and law enforcement and

taxes and something else. That list got way too long. Common sense. I think it was common sense. This will be the election of the caravan, Kavanaugh, law and order, tax cuts and common sense. That's what it is. Common sense. You know, he could do caravan, Kavanaugh, cops and common sense, I guess. But, you know, rule of three is what we live by in journalism. And in comedy. So, Domenico, you were talking to folks there at the rally. Were they talking about immigration? Absolutely. It is like the threshold issue for why they like President Trump. You know, I had people unprompted tell me almost in a defensive way that, look, we're for legal immigration, but we're not for illegal

immigration, which is a line I've heard over and over again since the Tea Party, frankly, when you ask people about what they think about immigration or immigration reform. Of course, President Trump has also moved to curtail legal immigration. He talked about that last night, too, about how he wants merit-based immigration. And you heard huge applause in the crowd for a lot of that. So immigration seems to be the fundamental issue from when Trump came down that golden escalator and talked about Mexico. A lot of people last night felt like the country is changing back to what they want, and they love what the president has been doing. I keep coming back to this thing that President Trump said in 2016. It was during a deposition about a lawsuit over his hotel. But

the lawyer was asking him about his statement after he came down that escalator that, you know, that Mexico doesn't send its best people. And President Trump said this issue, illegal immigration, is why I am the Republican nominee. That's right. And last night he said, I'm a nationalist. He said, OK, I'm a nationalist. There it is. And everything with nationalism comes not just economics and U.S.'s role in the world, but also building those walls and keeping the U.S. in sort of a protectionist state and saying, you know, what's happening here with people coming into the country is just too much

and we don't want it anymore. Ashley, you know, there's about two weeks left. What are you watching for? There's not a good sense of what's going to happen now. We just don't know. There's a lot of wild cards, a lot more people registered to vote in Texas. So there's like a lot of new voters in the mix and I don't know how they're going to behave. And,. So there's like a lot of new voters in the mix. And I don't know how they're going to behave. And, you know, there's a lot of there's strong like vote. There's a lot of people voting right now during early voting.

But those tend to be Democrats. And then they tend to be like overtaken on Election Day by Republicans. It's like the trend in Texas. It looks for sure, like at least in the Beto O'Rourke and Ted Cruz race that, you know, this is Ted Cruz's race to lose. We'll see. Republicans have a two seat majority in the Senate. And, you know, you've got Tennessee and Texas that are two Republican held states that Democrats are actually trying to pick up. And there was a late surge where Democrats saw some enthusiasm and some money come in and thought that they could have a shot at both of those states.

And Republicans saw the numbers. They saw the enthusiasm and they knew that they had to get in there and put some reinforcements down to be able to try to help those candidates over the finish line in order to hold the Senate. They see that as a huge, huge priority. All right. We are going to keep watching this and we will be back in your feeds very soon, as soon as there is political news that you need to know about. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. I'm Domenico Montanaro, political editor. And I'm Ashley Lopez. I'm a reporter at KUT in Austin. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.