The NPR Politics Podcast - Most Kids Still Can't Get The Vaccine. They Represent 18% Of New Cases.

Episode Date: August 17, 2021

Hospitals across the country are nearing capacity as they struggle to treat unvaccinated Americans. Children represent eighteen percent of all new cases, as parents and pediatricians push to get those under twelve access to the vaccine as schools begin to reopen.This episode: White House correspondent Scott Detrow, congressional correspondent Kelsey Snell, and health correspondent Allison Aubrey.Connect:Subscribe to the NPR Politics Podcast here.Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Listen to our playlist The NPR Politics Daily Workout.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio station.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Rebecca and Marlo calling from New Jersey. We are currently on day two of a three-day potty training method. This podcast was recorded at 207 Eastern on Tuesday, August 17th. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, and one of those things is that hopefully we will know with certainty that pee and poop go in the potty. The what? The potty. Enjoy the show and pray for me. Maybe they could help me settle a debate in my house about whether or not it's okay to have a used potty potty train. We did sell ours on eBay when our youngest was potty

trained. So I know people buy them. So there you go. Hey there, it's the NPR politics podcast. Ooh, there could be a pun there, but I'm not going to do it. I'm Scott Detrow. I cover the White House. I'm Kelsey Snell. I cover Congress. And we have health correspondent Allison Aubrey here. Allison, it's always good to have you on the podcast, but it also usually means we are talking about depressing COVID trends. That's right. It's great to be here. You yourself. It's great to have you. Thank you. So we do have some news to talk about today. It looks like federal officials are about to start recommending booster shots for people eight months after their second vaccine

dose. This would be for people who got those mRNA vaccines, that's Pfizer and Moderna. What do we know about this recommendation? And what are the big unanswered questions at this point? Sure. I think what's happening here is that the pandemic response team within the administration is looking at new data from Israel. And what they're seeing is that people who were vaccinated early on, that was January and February, and are 65 and older, that they're not as well protected anymore against the virus. There's been a pretty significant reduction in the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine, according to some data that has come from Israel. Now, Israel got an early start on getting so many people vaccinated. It's not a surprise that many eyes have been focused there. And I think that plays a lot into the pending announcement from the administration. Yeah. And before we talk more about this change in booster recommendations and what it means big

picture, can you just give us a quick snapshot of where we stand right now with Delta spreading across the country? Sure. I would say it's not a good moment in the pandemic. The reality is that the virus is circulating very widely. Right now, nearly 84% of counties in the U.S. have what the CDC categorizes as a high level of community spread. And new cases are really surging. We've seen just since the start of this month a 40% increase in daily new cases. We're up to about 120,000 cases a day on average.

With all of that in mind, Allison, why is this booster stuff happening now? I mean, there was this talk about maybe pushing for a booster, but the science didn't seem clear then. What has really changed now to make it seem like this is coming maybe imminently? Well, you know, other than looking at this preliminary data from Israel, there certainly is not conclusive evidence that immunity is waning to the point that everyone needs a booster now. I mean, we're just not there. There are studies that suggest that people 80 and over just didn't get a great immune response to the initial doses to begin with. And there's been this long standing

assumption that immunity would and could wane and probably would wane over time. I would say at this moment, given the Delta surge, the administration is kind of leaning towards a precautionary principle. I mean, the thinking is that, you know, we'd rather be safe than sorry, if we wait until we start to see breakthrough infections, and those people getting hospitalized, to some great extent, then we've waited too long. And so I think what we're seeing here at this moment is kind of a pivot. Like, let's not wait for conclusive data. Let's assume that over time, many people will need a booster. Okay, with all of that in mind, is there really a downside in

getting a booster? Could it just be helpful, even if this, you know, we don't know that it's necessarily absolutely needed at this moment? You know, a couple of issues to think through. Whenever Americans are getting a third dose that could deplete the limited global supply. So there is an equity issue here. And the administration has done a lot of talking about equity. So that's a sticking point, you know. Another thing is that the vaccine right now is not Delta specific. So, you know, should they wait until there's a Delta specific booster in order to get the booster strategy going? I mean, that's a question some people are asking. Moderna is actually testing, beginning to vaccine is 100% without any adverse events. I mean, we've seen that with the rare cases of myocarditis in adolescents.

And so, you know, the question is, are the downsides enough? Like, how are people going to respond to a third dose? So far in Israel, it looks as if people are tolerating the third shot well, but that's always a question. So I feel like there's a question every COVID podcast where I'm just kind of get very sad about the reality that this has become a political and partisan divide, like so many other things. You know, we we saw a Domenico Montanaro, I believe, did an entire post about the the way that vaccination rates really tracked with the way

that like the presidential election went state by state, right? Like we just, we have seen this, this breakdown. We have now gotten to the point where through prodding and bribing and, and, and Delta coming back, we've, we've passed 70% of adults with at least one shot. If we get into this world of boosters, doesn't this, couldn't this exasperate this divide between communities where people are all about vaccinations and communities where there's just not as much interest? Do we just get more and more boosted versus unvaccinated? You know, it's a good question. I think in terms of exacerbating the already big divide,

like how much more exacerbating does it need to be to have it be a big issue? I mean, it's a big issue. Let's just be real. The US is broken down into groups, the very people who were eager to get vaccinated in January, they're going to be the same people lining up or waiting for boosters. It has helped that Republican governors such as Kay Ivey of Alabama have been out there urging people to get vaccinated in her, you know, in her state. But the reality is that not enough people got vaccinated early on. This is, in effect, what has driven this surge, and it's why the virus is circulating so widely. I don't see the tale of two Americas changing here much.

All right. We are going to take a quick break, and when we come back, we're going to talk about another challenging wrinkle to all of this. What to do about kids who aren't going to be eligible for vaccinations for months and months. And the fact that school is about to start. There are arrowheads in the walls. I'm Ramteen Arablui. I'm Randabdib Fattah.

And we're the hosts of ThruLine, NPR's history podcast. And for our special series this month, the best of ThruLine. You know, if we carry on as we have been, this is what we might wind up with. Listen now to the ThruLine podcast from NPR. And we're back. Allison, you've been doing some reporting on this. One of the more troubling things about Delta is more kids are getting sick. You know, there were not many good things about COVID-19, the original variation,

but one of the luckier things was that it did not seem to big picture affect children as much as it affected adults. Is that changing? What is going on here? You know, I do think that this uber transmissible variant has changed the equation. I mean, it is still true that many kids, in fact, most kids get very mild illness from COVID. Many are asymptomatic. But the reality is, is that they can spread it. And in rare cases, kids get very, very sick.

There have been more than 4,400 cases of severe inflammatory disease in kids. And if you have more kids infected, then you are going to see more cases like this, of this inflammatory disease. And I'll point out that the first week in August, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics, there was the largest increase in pediatric COVID-19 cases since the start of the pandemic. There were 71,000 cases confirmed that week. That was double the number reported in the previous week. So basically, pediatricians are really leaning hard on the FDA right now. They're saying, look, the Delta variant has created a new and pressing risk to children and adolescents across the country right at the time that school is about

to start. And they're urging the agency to work quickly to green light authorization of the vaccine for kids 5 to 11. Yeah, but before we talk about school and the status of vaccines for kids, I do just want to clarify something you said, because I think it's important. And I think a lot of parents are really worried about it right now. From how you framed it, it sounds like the data is not necessarily saying that Delta makes kids more sick. It's just it's more infectious.

Therefore, more kids are getting sick. And therefore, if you broaden the pie of kids getting sick, there are going to be more kids who are seriously sick. Is that a fair way to put it? That's exactly right. I mean, the risk of a serious inflammatory disease is still quite rare when you look at the overall number of kids getting it. But exactly right. If suddenly twice as many kids are infected as there were last week, well, then you're going to see more cases of the inflammatory disease.

Yeah. I mean, adding to the intensity of this conversation, of this moment when all of these kids are getting sick, is that they're going back to school. The school year is about to start, and there's a lot of pressure to make sure that education is not disrupted for what would be a third year of education for these students. How much is that playing in here? Yeah, I mean, I think it's a real issue. I know in Mississippi, several districts have had to pivot and go to online learning, given the spread of the virus there. I know where I live in Montgomery County, Maryland, the school system is saying, look, we plan to stay open. Unless the state comes in and says school buildings must close, we plan to stay open. And there's a lot of last minute kind of debating and talking about how extensive the

mitigation measures need to be. I mean, I think most people thought we'd be in a better situation at this moment, you know, and the reality is we're not. So all of the things that we've known all along about how you limit the spread of the virus becomes super important here. The CDC is recommending universal masking for children and staff in schools. And clearly, things like hand washing and distancing still matter. So, okay, fact number one, more kids are getting COVID right now. Fact number two, schools are trying to reopen and trying to do everything they can to keep things in person as much as possible for a wide range of reasons, right? Which leads us to fact number three, the fact that anybody under 12 is currently not eligible for a vaccine. Allison,

what is the timeline for this? And is there any real world consideration of, hey, if Delta is going to keep spreading, is there any possible way to speed up this process. Yeah, so right now, the Pfizer and Moderna are both enrolling kids into their trials to test this. They're testing different doses of the vaccine. They're looking not only at efficacy, but also safety. In recent weeks, the FDA asked the vaccine makers to expand their trials to make sure that they were catching any potential adverse event related to vaccination. While this is ongoing, I think pediatricians are saying, look, there's enough data from the initial cohort of kids in the study to go ahead and start looking at authorizing

this vaccine for the 5 to 11-year-olds. You know, because right now, that basically goes kindergarten through fifth grade. So right now, you know, pretty much across the country, kids in elementary schools, very vulnerable. Yeah. And I mean, that's just worth underscoring because one positive right now is that, you know, among vaccinated populations, COVID, by and large, is not as serious of an illness as it was last year then every school principal, every school teacher doesn't have to think about it, deal with it. I mean, I'm thinking about in these states where

the governors are trying to give kids and parents waivers to not wear masks. That just really complicates the mitigation strategies. And it puts a lot of hard work on teachers and principals at a time where they're dealing with so many issues right now trying to keep schools safe. Well, Allison, thanks. Even though it's often a downer conversation, I always do appreciate the way that you clarify things and help us make more sense of them on the podcast and on Morning Edition 2 each week. So thanks for joining us today. Yeah, great to be here. Take care.

Thanks for having me. All right, we will be back in your feeds tomorrow afternoon like we are every weekday. That's it for now, though. I'm Scott Detrow. I cover the White House. I'm Kelsey Snell. I cover Congress.

Thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.