The NPR Politics Podcast - No Major Violence In Miami As Trump Pleaded Not Guilty

Episode Date: June 13, 2023

The former president was greeted warmly by hundreds of supporters as he arrived at the courthouse to be processed and fingerprinted. He was not made to pay bond following his plea and his personal travel has not been restricted.This episode: voting correspondent Miles Parks, justice reporter Deepa Shivaram, and senior political editor and correspondent Ron Elving.The podcast is produced by Elena Moore and Casey Morell. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Unlock access to this and other bonus content by supporting The NPR Politics Podcast+. Sign up via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Autograph Collection Hotels, with over 300 independent hotels around the world, each exactly like nothing else. Autograph Collection is part of the Marriott Bonvoy portfolio of hotel brands. Find the unforgettable at AutographCollection.com. Hi, this is Chris in Baltimore. I'm sitting outside the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services office, just about to take my citizenship ceremony. This podcast was recorded at 4.36pm Eastern Time on June 13th, 2023. Things may have changed by the

time you hear it, but I will be a United States citizen. Okay, here's the show. Woo, congrats. Nice. Make sure you register to vote. As voting reporters, it's important to go do that. Wow. Wow, that's a nice hopeful sign. I'd love to hear that as a kickoff. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting. I'm Deepa Shivaram. I cover politics. And I'm Ron Elving, editor, correspondent. And former President Donald Trump has pleaded not guilty to all 37 felony counts that he faces related to his handling of classified documents. He made the plea today at a federal court hearing in Miami, Florida. And Deepa, let's start there. What can you tell

us about what happened in the courtroom today? In all honesty, this whole process didn't actually last too long today. Trump sat in the 13th floor courtroom at the U.S. courthouse in Miami during the proceedings today. And there was a magistrate judge that presided over this, though that's not going to be the situation going forward. Judge Eileen Cannon, who's a Trump appointee, is expected to oversee the case as we kind of go forward. Trump was booked and that process included digital fingerprints. He didn't get handcuffed or have his mugshot taken. His passport wasn't surrendered and he didn't have any travel limits placed on him either. But a condition of his release includes no direct communication with any of the witnesses

on a list that the government will generate. And this includes no communication with Walt Nada, who's his personal aide, who was also indicted with six federal charges. Nada was not arraigned today because he didn't have a lawyer who could represent him in the state of Florida. But that proceeding is expected to happen in the next few weeks. What about the scene outside the courtroom, Ron? What did you make of?

I know that local police were gearing up and really looking at this as a potential security threat. Did anything end up materializing today on that front? Hundreds of people turned out in support of the former president. Many of them were carrying banners. Some of them said Trump 2020. Some of them said Trump 2024. And they seem to have been pretty well organized. They were well behaved. I don't know of any incidents that may have happened at least thus far with that crowd. But they were there to show their support. It was 90 degrees in Miami today. And this was not a pleasant necessarily place to spend the afternoon milling about with a large crowd. But this many people were willing to come out in support of him. Now, of course, the former president had asked for there to be a presence, and there was some suspicion that this might have reached a much larger number, as of course it did on January 6, 2021, and that it might have been a more raucous crowd than we saw today, but that was not the case. Can you zoom out a little bit for us, Ron, because a lot of firsts this week. This is the

first time a former president has appeared in court for federal charges. What's your broader takeaway here? It's hard to estimate in full at this point just how much Donald Trump has changed the way we think of presidents and former presidents. And this is simply going to be part of our landscape for as long as most of us are in this business. He has changed things. And this is simply going to be part of our landscape for as long as most of us are in this business. He has changed things. And this is a manifestation of his particular attitude towards the office of president, his particular attitude towards the electorate, his particular attitude towards the law. I think it's fair to say he has had a different attitude toward the law than any previous president. And all of those things are going to have ramifications in the short run and in the long.

This is the most dramatic in the sense of the firsts that you were talking about. But there are going to be additional points along this trail, including possibly two more indictments before this year is over, one in Georgia for election interference, and possibly another indictment to be filed by special counsel Jack Smith, who is investigating that January 6th uprising or attack on the Capitol in 2021. Trump is set to speak also tonight. He has been already fundraising heavily based on this indictment. I got an email a couple hours ago saying, quote, communism has finally come to our shores. And it had a little donation link at the bottom. What are we expecting tonight from Trump, Deepa? Yeah, you know, it's been interesting because we know that the former president doesn't exactly

keep his thoughts to himself. He's been posting a lot on Truth Social, which is his social media platform, even an hour before appearing at the courthouse today, was repeatedly posting and repeating some of his claims that, of course, this trial is a witch hunt, it's a hoax, he has no shortage of insults for special counsel Jack Smith. And so today, moving forward after this, it's Trump's pitch to voters, obviously, as he's a presidential candidate, and others to kind of say his spiel of claiming his innocence as he kind of takes it forward on the campaign trail. He had some events over the weekend after that indictment was unsealed on Friday. And, you know, he's not ramping down. This is something that he's going to continue to do and make these claims in person

as well. Let's take a quick break and we'll be back with more in just a moment. And we are back. And Ron, as somebody who covers voting, I have to say the last couple of years has been a lot of thinking about all the different ways that our democratic systems have been tested by Donald Trump. Can you talk about this case when it comes to that? I mean, you know, we talk about the independence of this judge who he appointed. We talk about the politicization of the Justice Department or the alleged politicization of the Justice Department. How big of a symbol is this whole trial going to end up being? Regrettably, it might be a very large symbol of the dissolution of our faith and confidence in our political institutions, and I'm including

there our courts and our legal system. This particular judge who's in line to handle the case is not just another Trump appointee. She was one of the very last Trump appointees to be confirmed in the lame duck period after Trump had been defeated for reelection. She is also the judge who, last year, after the FBI had searched Mar-a-Lago, looking for the documents Donald Trump insisted he didn't have and finding them, at that time, she was willing to appoint a special master to look at all these documents that had been seized and make a judgment as to whether or not they should have been seized. So that was certainly something that pleased Donald Trump. In the long run, she was overruled by a circuit court of appeals, which slapped her down rather, well, rather rudely, actually. So she's already a highly politicized figure, and she is going to be looked at with scrutiny that would go even beyond most any other judge in that part of the world who might have I know that the case in New York is expected to carry into 2024, but Special Counsel Jack Smith's office has indicated that it wants a speedier

timeline for these federal charges. Any idea on if that's realistic? Yeah, that's something we heard from Jack Smith himself last week. He gave those remarks. It was the first time we had really heard from him at all in this process. And one of the first things he said in those brief remarks he made from the DOJ was that he wanted there to be a speedy trial. So coming from him, you know, that's something he's kind of putting out there. But at the same time, we also know that, you know, there's the background of the election going on. And Donald Trump himself, someone, you know, who in the past has kind of wanted to draw out these proceedings and draw out this process, just like Ron was talking about having a special master

appointed in this case. These are things that add weeks and weeks and weeks to the judicial process here. And so if you talk to legal experts, what they often say is like what his playbook is legally is to just really draw out the process. He obviously is fundraising off of it, like you mentioned, as a candidate. So this is something that in the past, we know Trump's playbook is to kind of draw out the process, even though someone like Jack Smith and on the government side of things, they might want to keep things moving more speedily. So it's really kind of up in the air right now how realistic that is. I thought it was really interesting. Yesterday on the podcast, we talked about how most of the other Republican candidates in the field, other than Chris Christie,

have treaded pretty lightly on coming out against Trump when it comes to this indictment. But Nikki Haley came out and said, basically, if what is in this indictment is true, then Trump was incredibly reckless with our national security. Ron, I'm wondering, do you see that as the beginning of a turning here where some of these candidates are going to feel more comfortable potentially going after Trump on some of this stuff? There is a lot of difference between some of the different Republican candidates for president. Obviously, Chris Christie is all in at criticizing Trump. Nikki Haley changed her tune and suggests that what he did was wrong and perhaps he shouldn't be the best nominee for the Republican Party, not just because the party's been losing, but because he did these bad things. There might be a safe space for some of the Republicans to retreat to in which they say, Donald Trump has weakened himself and he's weakened the party. But if I were to become the new president, if you nominate me and elect me in 2024, I'll pardon him. I'll pardon him. And it's entirely possible that this process could still be dragging on at that

point, but this process might still be in process and he might never have to face the music even if convicted. So that's another place these candidates might find themselves going to explain why they're running, even though they don't really want to go after Donald Trump. Can I ask a simple question, Ron? I mean, do you think if Trump were to be convicted here, would that be the line in the sand for Republican voters? Or could you imagine a scenario where he could still win the Republican primary? I can imagine the scenario that he would still win the Republican primary because I suspect that there will be enough candidates in the field to divide the non-Trump or the never Trump or the anti-Trump vote in the Republican primaries among so many that he still wins. And even with 30 or 40 percent of the vote, we saw this in 2016, he gets all the delegates. And when he gets all the delegates from a given state, it stacks up and pretty soon you get a convention like we had in 2016. That might be quite an event, might be quite an affair.

But it is possible. There is no law that says he can't run. There is no law that says he can't serve as president, even if he's not only indicted, but tried and convicted. And Deepa, let's go back to kind of the specifics of this case. What's the next thing in the timeline? I guess, what are we watching for in terms of upcoming developments? Yeah, I mean, I think in the next couple of weeks, what we're watching for in the immediate future is that arraignment for Walt Nada, who's Trump's aide. Like I mentioned before, he was indicted with six federal charges, and that also included making false statements, obstruction of justice. So he didn't have that

legal representation he needed today. And we're going to see kind of what happens there and how he moves forward with this as well. Okay, well, let's leave it there for today. And for more coverage, you can keep listening to your NPR station. Check out the Up First podcast tomorrow morning and visit us online at NPR.org. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting. I'm Deepa Shibram. I cover politics.

And I'm Ron Oving, editor-correspondent. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.