The NPR Politics Podcast - Obama's Speechwriter On The Power Of Presidential Rhetoric

Episode Date: September 15, 2022

Cody Keenan talks to NPR's Tamara Keith about writing for Barack Obama, the impact of Donald Trump's rhetoric and whether a president needs to be a compelling speaker to be an effective leader.He's the author of a new book, Grace: President Obama and Ten Days in the Battle for America.This episode: White House correspondent Tamara Keith.Learn more about upcoming live shows of The NPR Politics Podcast at nprpresents.org.Support the show and unlock sponsor-free listening with a subscription to The NPR Politics Podcast Plus. Learn more at plus.npr.org/politics Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Tamara Keith. Today we're doing something a little different, going back in time to June 2015 and a 10-day period that started with the racist mass shooting at the Mother Emanuel Church in Charleston, South Carolina. Parishioners of Emanuel AME Church, a historic black church in Charleston, South Carolina, hold a vigil in memory of the nine lives lost when a young white man who was taking part in their prayer group last night gunned them down. Punctuated by two Supreme Court decisions preserving Obamacare and affirming the right to same-sex marriage in the United States and ended with then-President Obama delivering a eulogy

for the pastor and the eight worshippers shot to death at a Bible study. It ended with the President of the United States singing Amazing Grace. Amazing Grace. Amazing grace. Amen. Amen. Amazing grace. How sweet the sound That saved a wretch like me I did know what was going to happen. There were about six people in the world who did.

He stood up on Marine One that morning and looked down at me and said, you know, if it feels right, I might sing it. That voice is Cody Keenan. He wrote the eulogy in collaboration with Obama, who he says added the lyrics of Amazing Grace to a draft of the speech the night before. Keenan was the chief White House speechwriter at the time and sat down to talk with us about his new book, Grace, President Obama and 10 Days in the Battle for America. He was kind of filled with the spirit that day. I mean, the book tells the story of 10 days in June 2015 that, as you said, began with the shooting. But all of the big unanswered questions of American history were kind of coming all together at the same time in just this extraordinary way. And I felt like I needed to write about it.

He sang Amazing Grace, but there was this like excruciatingly long pause where you didn't know what he was going to do. Do you know why it took such a long pause there? So I actually asked him afterwards, you know, what was with the pause? And he goes, well, you know, the thing about Amazing Grace, man, you got to start low. Otherwise, by the time you get to a wretch like me, your voice cracks. So I was just kind of gathering myself to start really low. So it seemed inevitable that he would give that speech. It seemed inevitable that he would find a way to say the words that needed to be said in this moment of national tragedy. But as I understand it, it wasn't a sure thing. And in fact, for most of the book, it wasn't clear whether he was going to give a speech or whether you would even have to write a speech. Yeah, it wasn't inevitable for two reasons. One, it's never guaranteed that we're going to find the right words.

So that's its own struggle. But two, you know, and this is about a behind the scenes drama in the book. As all these other events are unfolding, we were having a pretty passionate debate inside the White House as to whether or not he was going to give this eulogy at all. Because he'd already given so many eulogies after mass shootings. And, you know, say after Newtown in 2012, which is when 20 schoolchildren were murdered in their classroom, along with six of the educators that were trying to protect them, President Obama kind of pushed his first term agenda aside and tried to do something on background checks, which Republicans in the Senate knocked down in April of 2013.

And they made that vote while the families of the victims, the parents were in the Senate gallery, you know. And right after President Obama spoke about that in the Rose Garden, he came back inside and it was maybe the angriest I've ever seen and certainly the most cynical. And he said, you know, if we're going to decide as a country not to do something about this after a bunch of six-year-olds are murdered, then I don't want to speak on this again. It had become this cycle after mass shootings where, you know, people kind of argue and point fingers and then Obama goes and gives a eulogy and absolves America of its collective sin and we move on. And he said, I don't want to do that anymore. With Charleston, he said the same thing, you know, I don't want to do this again. The turning point was the Friday, one week before he gave the eulogy, all of the family members of the victims stood up on live television in court and forgave the killer to his face over video.

And it was extraordinary. I remember seeing it and thinking, I couldn't do something like that. And that's great. That's a tenet of the AME church. And we still hadn't decided by Monday if he was going to speak. But he said, if I do go, that's what I want to talk about, the concept of grace. And we finally started working on it, I think, that Tuesday. This may be a bit of a misperception, but I always got this feeling covering President Obama that he was such a talented orator that he figured if he could just give one more speech or just really, really explain that policy with the right words, just talk through the issue that he could somehow magically fix the politics with words. There's some truth to that, especially when it came to the economy. We'd always kind of roll our eyes. You know, it's like what we need to give is another economic speech.

It's not going to fix anything, but OK. I wonder, like, how do you how did he think about the power of presidential rhetoric? And did you experience the limits of it? Or did he just keep thinking, I'll just do another one? I think we pushed the limits of it. We always went into every speech knowing that we live in polarized times where people can kind of choose their own news silos. So it's very difficult to change people's minds, let alone their nature. But we still approached speeches as if we could. A captive audience is an incredible gift and something you don't want to waste. And with something like that eulogy where he knew not just the country, but the world would be watching to see what the first black president has to say about a racist massacre carried out under the banner of white

supremacy. He knew his words would have a lot of import there, but he was also always very careful with them and very choosy with them. And he never saw eulogy on a national stage as you just, you know, eulogize the victim, pay tribute to the victim and move on. It's what is our obligation now that that person or people are gone? You know, what should we learn from their lives? What should we do to to be better now that they're gone? And that's what he tried to do in Newtown and Tucson and Charleston and all sorts of other eulogies. We're going to take a quick break. More with Cody Keenan in a second.

And we're back. More with Cody Keenan in a second. Every speech he gave as president had a campaign feel to it from American carnage on Inauguration Day on out. And he used the language often of combat. So obviously you disagreed with, I would assume, everything he ever said or close to it. But you've spent a lot of time paying attention to how presidents communicate. And I wonder what it is about former President Trump and the way he speaks that has connected with, like, you know, nearly 50 percent of Americans. Yeah. I mean, you know, he was good at getting attention for himself. That's for sure. Did it make a difference? You know, did it? I mean, I'm gonna answer this question. But what were the policy priorities that he got through beyond a massive tax cut for the wealthiest Americans? Did he win reelection? You know, no. But words do matter. And I think one of the most pernicious things about his rhetoric is that it kind of granted approval for some of the more baser elements in American politics and

American society to come out and be a little bit unleashed. I don't think Americans have gotten worse, but I think there has been a general permission structure to come out and do and say whatever you want and even resort to violence when you don't get your way. And that's, you know, he kind of let the genie out of the bottle in some ways. And putting it back in is going to be very difficult. I do want to get your assessment of President Biden's effort to talk about this very big issue that is American democracy and concerns that it might be eroding or eroded. When President Biden talks about the ultra MAGA crew or trying to sort of say, you know, these people over there, Trump and his ultra MAGA people, they're not a real America or they don't

have America's best interests at heart. Do you think that that is effective? Do you think that that works or is there a risk of somehow contributing to the polarization? It's not divisive to say there are people trying to overturn the election because there are. Tactically, right, you don't want to lose people that you might want to be able to convince to come over to your side, right? There's a certain element that just won't. But there are plenty of people in the middle who, even Republican-leaning, who I have to believe are not in favor of some of the MAGA policies, you know, or some of the MAGA values. And, you know, they may not want to vote for Democrats

either. But but to try to convince them that there is a truer path that we've always been on, that we can't afford to get off or something will be lost forever, I think is really important to try to do. It does. And you can disagree if you want, but it does seem like a departure from and obviously, President Biden and President Obama are very different people. But it does seem like a departure from the idea that was the Obama presidency that, you know, American democracy is stronger than its differences. Well, if it's a departure, I mean, so so were the four years after Obama, right? I mean, you had people actually storm a Capitol building. That's a pretty significant departure from

everything that had come before. So I think it would be naive and an abdication of leadership if President Biden wasn't talking openly about these things. But it's not the only thing the American people care about. I mean, my heart goes out to the Biden speechwriting team, because it is a challenge to be a speechwriter and have to juggle all these competing audiences and all these competing issues. You know, there are people who just only care about their own family's economic fate and they're like, leave me alone on the rest. And you're, as a speechwriter, you're constantly thinking about all those different audiences and what's the sort of best tightrope to walk to navigate all of them. President Biden is arguably not the

magically gifted speech giver that President Obama is and was. Do you think that he has been able to be effective in communicating his goals or his ideas? And I guess like a related question, does a president actually have to be a great speaker to be a successful president? No. And I love that you asked that question because, you know, it's one thing I try to tell young people all the time that we never had anybody like him in my lifetime before that. And you are not always going to have a charismatic leader to choose from. But that's also democracy, right? We don't need to have charismatic leaders who give soaring speeches. We just all need to get involved and vote and keep

voting. And you push, pick an issue or two that you really care about and just keep pushing on those issues until you make some progress. That seems like some tough medicine for Democrats who always want to fall in love with their candidates. Yeah, it is, especially with younger people, right? I'm 41 years old. I came of age in the 80s and 90s, not when things seemed, comparatively now, relatively peaceful and prosperous. For these kids, they grew up through 9-11

and two wars and two recessions and a pandemic, and the climate is getting worse before their eyes. And for them, it's an existential threat because they're going to have to live in this. They grew up with active shooter drills. It's just a different life than we lived. So there is an urgency to their politics that older generations don't necessarily have. So I understand where they're coming from. They're like, look, I can't afford to vote in every election for 20 years until I see something. I need it now. And I get that and I sympathize

with it. I mean, I want it now, too. I want to close with this. The book throughout is like this mixture of dread and hope of everything is terrible. And yet it's the Obama administration and hope is a thing. And then after leaving the White House, you actually stayed on with President Obama. And ultimately, you and your wife had a daughter, and you named your daughter Grace. So should we take from that that you're actually pretty hopeful about America? I am. I mean, you look at the longer trajectory of America, and none of what I'm about to say is new. President Obama said it all the time. The longer trajectory of America should give you hope.

I mean, look how far we've come, right? If you just look at it in one or two year increments, it's very easy to get down about things. But, you know, like he always said, the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice. But it does that when all of us put our hands on the arc and bend it towards justice. You know, progress is never a straight line. For every burst of progress, like the 10 days in this book were an incredible burst of progress. There is backlash.

And that's really the American story. I mean, the way you put it, dread and hope, that's a lot of the American story right there. And, you know, it just felt like in those 10 days that this book covers, we felt it in real time. And it was almost scary that we, it was exciting, but scary that we were kind of breaking free of the past into something new and exciting. And, you know, maybe we could change the rules of things. And I still believe we can get there. And one of the reasons I want to write this book is because I wanted my

daughter someday to read it and know what America is capable of when there are good people out there who are working to make the world into what it should be. And we named her Grace, you know, because it was, it was 2020 when my wife and I moved to New York city two months before the pandemic, we found out we were pregnant two weeks before everything shut down. You know, you had all sorts of protests that summer and then a contested election. And then this little baby came along. And, you know, that little baby just showed us grace that we didn't necessarily deserve. So it seemed like a fitting name.

Cody Keenan, chief speechwriter in the Obama administration. His book is Grace, President Obama and 10 Days in the Battle for America. And it's out in October, but you can order it now. Cody, thank you so much. Thank you. That's it for today. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.