The NPR Politics Podcast - Partisan Divide: Michigan, Texas Take Differing Approaches To Reopening

Episode Date: May 6, 2020

As new confirmed cases decline in the state, Michigan has extended its stay-at-home order until May 15th. Texas is moving quickly toward reopening, and while the state's outbreak is comparatively less severe, it isn't tapering off. That has led some public health experts to worry that lifting restrictions could mean a spike in cases.This episode: campaign correspondent Asma Khalid, WKAR reporter Abigail Censky, KUT reporter Ashley Lopez.Connect:Subscribe to the NPR Politics Podcast here.Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio stationLearn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Becky from Southern California. I'm currently taking my lunch break after doing curbside pharmacy for my patients. I'm supposed to be in Thailand for the next two weeks celebrating my husband's birthday, but instead I'm hoping that an NPR politics birthday shout out will be a nice consolation. So happy birthday, Mr. McWells. This show was recorded at 2.09 p.m. on Wednesday, May 6th. Things may have changed by the time you hear it. Okie doke, here's the show. Well, I just want to say happy birthday to Mr. McWells.

I am not sure that a shout out from us is equivalent to a trip to Thailand, but I sure hope it suffices. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the presidential campaign. President Trump has not been shy about wanting to reopen the U.S. economy. Today, he said Americans will not stand for continued stay-at-home orders. And he described the virus as an attack on the country. We went through the worst attack we've ever had on our country. This is really the worst attack we've ever had. This is worse than Pearl Harbor. This is worse than the World Trade Center. There's never been an attack like this. Still, despite whatever the president wants, states are technically opening up on their own terms. So today we wanted to travel around the

country a bit and look at how two states, Michigan and Texas, are thinking about reopening. For that, we've got Ashley Lopez of KUT in Austin, Texas. Hey there, Ashley. Hey, Asma. And we've got Abigail Senske of WKAR in Lansing, Michigan. Hi to you. Hi. So before we dive into any politics conversation, I just want to ask you both, how are you holding up under lockdown? This is Abigail. I've been doing a lot of cooking. My workout routine has definitely fallen off though. So I think it's a bit of a wash right now. Yeah. You know, weeks ago I was hoping to spend more

time with my dog and I don't like the way this was forced, but I'm really happy to be spending almost every waking minute with my dog now. So I guess that's a plus. I will say I felt very guilty that in like January and February, I was hardly around my little baby. And now I've reached the point where I'm like, I could really use a less comforting shadow. Like every time you move, there's somebody right behind you. So I hear you. So Abigail, let's start with you. Can you just recap for us what the scale of the outbreak in Michigan has felt like? Yeah, at this point, we have more than 44,000 lab-confirmed cases of COVID-19 and over 4,000 deaths. The hot spot of the outbreak has been southeast Michigan,

especially in Detroit and the three counties around Detroit. They've had over 50% of our cases here in Michigan. And our curve has now started to flatten. Things are finally starting to look up after several scary weeks here in Michigan. But now we're seeing cases start to pick up on the west side of the state near Lake Michigan and Kent County, where Grand Rapids is. Got it, got it. And Ashley, you're in Texas. So describe to us what things have felt like there.

And we should point out that Texas has three times as many people as Michigan does. Yeah, so as of today, we've had about 34,000 people who have tested positive for the coronavirus, but only about less than a thousand. So like 950 people have actually died from the virus, which, you know, compared to the number we just heard from Michigan is actually pretty low. And again, we have 29 million people here, as you mentioned, like it's a big state. So, you know, not quite as a dramatic scene here as you're seeing in other states. And are the cases, the new cases on the decline, or are we seeing an uptick in Texas? Well, it's been pretty steady, right? So there hasn't been like a huge jump, but there's been a steady trickle in of cases about a thousand a day.

Not anything super dramatic, but definitely not a huge decrease either. Given that dynamic, what have the restrictions in Texas been like? I mean, are you all under a stay-at-home order? We were, and those have started in the past few days, like since the beginning of the month, being loosened a bit. You know, our governor has been kind of careful to not call this like a stay-at-home lockdown. And, you know, he's been always kind of like walking the line of it being like, you know, this is temporary. And, you know, there's been some allowances like for, you know, religious institutions, there's been a little bit more lax regulation there. But lately, you know, we even have barbershops that are recent, like are starting to open nail salons, pools, which is actually kind of important in

Texas. But, you know, they're like public health officials in different cities kind of see this differently. But things are definitely starting to open up. Restaurants and stores and things like that have to stay at about a 25% capacity, but it's so it's slow. But people are like dining in restaurants now then? Yeah, yeah, they are. So Ashley, you mentioned that some public health experts in the state disagree with Governor Greg Abbott's decisions here about reopening the state. What exactly is their point of disagreement? Well, you know, most public health experts would tell you like states shouldn't really consider any widespread reopening if they

don't have a lot of testing or contact tracing. So they're worried that like reopening without having those two big things in place is going to set the state up for some problems down the line potentially. So Abigail, given that in Michigan, you all are gradually seeing a reduction in cases. What's the dynamic been like there? I mean, I feel like I have heard that there is a fairly strict stay at home order that's been put in place by Governor Gretchen Whitmer. Does that still hold? Right. So we did have a very stringent stay-at-home order here in the state of Michigan. It's taken several forms. It's kind of shapeshifted over the past couple of months here.

At first, you know, it was just a general stay-at-home order. Then when the governor extended it, there were more restrictions that were put on place that didn't allow for occupations like landscaping and didn't allow boating, golf, or traveling between homes. And then the governor got a lot of pushback on that. We saw some big protests. And when she extended the stay-at-home order to its current form, which is now we're under the stay-at-home order through May 15th, some of those restrictions have been eased. So landscapers are now allowed to go back to work. Boating has resumed and people can go to golf courses. And the governor has also slowly allowed some sectors of the economy to re-engage. The first sector that she's kind of allowing to re-engage is commercial and residential construction. And that actually

will begin just tomorrow. So we're kind of piloting re-engaging here, but things are still going molasses slow and people are definitely getting tired of the stay at home order here. All right. Well, we are going to take a quick break. And when we get back, we'll talk more about the politics and how the public in both of these states feel about reopening. We're in the middle of a global pandemic, but people are still looking for love. I think it might very well be the very best first date I've had. And finding love. That you're talking with a regularity that feels good to you. And making love work. Setting up an actual date night. Love in the age of coronavirus.

Next time on It's Been a Minute from NPR. And we're back. Abigail, let's start with you. An NPR-PBS NewsHour Marist poll from a few weeks ago found that the vast,000 people came and gridlocked the streets around our Capitol. And we had another four to 700 protesters last week. So you definitely have that contingent of people who are very unhappy with the stay-at-home orders and would like to see things reopening very soon. But polling that was done right after that big thousands of people protest found that 57% of Michiganders actually approve Governor Whitmer's handling of the COVID-19 pandemic. So there's a bit of a disconnect between, you know, average Michiganders and the people who are showing up at these protests. And like you

said, our testing is nowhere near where it needs to be. We're at the point right now where we're testing about 11,000 people a day, but we need to be testing one to 2% of our population a week. And we still don't have enough things like swabs or reagents to get up to that proper level of testing. So, you know, I know President Trump has criticized Governor Whitmer saying that she hasn't really asked for all the things that she needs for testing. And, you know, they've had a long history here of going back and forth. But I am curious how her relationship with the Republicans in the state has been. Over the past two weeks, the relationship between the senior Republican leadership in the legislature and Governor Whitmer has deteriorated a lot. I would describe it as frayed at best right now.

The Republicans actually sued the governor over her state of emergency declaration extension this morning. This is what our Republican Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirky had to say about it. Everybody supported the one size fits all heavy handed blunt force instrument of government to put things in place. But over time, we learned more. Every day we learned more. We learned that in the state, the nation, and the world, there were organizations learning to live with the virus, not in fear of the virus.

There's a very distinct difference of opinion between the governor who says, you know, she's not going to be pressured by these large protests and Republican political agendas. She's going to listen to the epidemiologist. People are weighing in and putting pressure. And you know what? I am going to listen to our epidemiologists and our public health experts. I'm going to work with our leaders in business and labor to make sure we get this right. And Republicans are ultimately arguing that, you know, people are

losing their livelihoods. And in a way, they argue they're losing their lives because of these restrictions. Yeah, I kind of feel like we have a reverse situation from Michigan, where I'm actually hearing a lot more concern about, you know, the virus get spreading more now that people are going to be back out in the world, shopping and going to restaurants. Again, this also like breaks down by, you know, your sort of partisan allegiance, right? So I guess it depends who you ask, right? Just like anything else. But you know, the pushback like that you're hearing from Michigan, you're probably not going to hear in Texas, because the governor's approach has been different. Like

this is a Republican governor, his, you know, part of his like panel of people that he's talking to about whether or not the state should reopen isn't just, you know, health care people. It's not just people in the medical field. It's a lot of business interests. So, you know, he's kind of been straddling both worlds trying to figure out, you know, the best way to go about this. It sounds like what you both have hinted at is this idea of a kind of a blue state, red state divide around the politics of reopening. And, you know, we should point out that Texas is

governed by a Republican and Michigan is governed by a Democrat. And I will say, you know, I mentioned I normally am based around D.C., but I am currently in Indiana at my parents. And Indiana itself is planning to reopen this week. It's a red state. And so it is really interesting to see and to feel the difference in kind of the speed and the attitude and how welcoming people are towards the concept of reopening, which feels really fundamentally different than you do around the D.C. region. I think the only thing that I have to add to that, Asma, is just how much Governor Whitmer in Michigan has been in lockstep with epidemiologists. Really all of the decisions that she's been making have been in

consult with public health officials. And I think that is a huge difference between how governors are handling it in red states. Like Ashley was saying, Governor Abbott in Texas hasn't been necessarily in lockstep with those epidemiologists and public health officials. Yeah. There's also a big difference in between red states and blue states in terms of like how much there is the existence of a safety net to catch all these people who are losing their jobs and losing their health insurance. And I think, you know, the state, state leaders know there's not really, you know, there's not expanded Medicaid here in Texas. There's not a robust unemployment program. There aren't a lot of places to like, you know, we don't have like a very robust TANF, like temporary assistance for a needy families

program either. So, you know, I think they also have to walk the line of like, how much can we actually pull back the economy to stop the spread without leaving people in sort of abject poverty, because we just don't have, you know, because of our priorities through the years, we just don't have a network to catch them when they fall. That's a really interesting point. All right, well, we are going to leave it there. Ashley and Abigail, thank you both very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That was Ashley Lopez from KUT in Austin, Texas, and Abigail Senske from WKAR in Lansing, Michigan.

And listeners, we need your help coming up. Every week, we end our weekly roundup with Can't Let It Go. That's the segment where we talk about the things that we cannot stop thinking about, politics or otherwise. And we want to know what you cannot stop thinking of. So let us know by recording yourself telling us about what you cannot stop thinking about. 20 seconds is best. And you can email it to nprpolitics at npr.org. Can't wait to listen to it.

I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the presidential campaign. And thank you, as always, for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.