The NPR Politics Podcast - President-elect Trump refuses to rule out military involvement in Panama Canal

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

President-elect Donald Trump held a press conference today from his home in Mar-a-Lago. Topics of discussion included his dissatisfaction with the outgoing Biden administration, tariffs, and foreign policy. Then, Asma Khalid, Franco Ordoñez, and Domenico Montanaro look ahead to the first few days of Trump's presidency. This episode: White House correspondent Asma Khalid, White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez, and senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro.The podcast is produced by Bria Suggs & Kelli Wessinger, and edited by Casey Morell. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.Listen to every episode of the NPR Politics Podcast sponsor-free, unlock access to bonus episodes with more from the NPR Politics team, and support public media when you sign up for The NPR Politics Podcast+ at plus.npr.org/politics.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hey y'all, this is Brett in Denver. I'm with my cat, Carl Sagan, on the way to the vet. He's not super happy about it, but at least I've got the NPR politics pod to keep me entertained. This podcast was recorded at 1.42pm Eastern Time on Tuesday, January 7th of 2025. Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but Carl will still be pretty upset about having to go to the vet again. All right, enjoy the show. I feel like this is not the first Carl Sagan cat who's appeared on the politics podcast. Hey there, it's the NPR politics podcast. I'm Lesma Khalid. I cover the White House. I'm Frank Ordonez. I also cover the White House.

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And just a bit ago, President-elect Donald Trump wrapped up another freewheeling news conference at his residence at Mar-a-Lago in Florida, in which he railed against the Biden administration's plans to limit oil drilling suggested he would rename the Gulf of Mexico. We're going to be changing the name of the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America, which has a beautiful ring that covers a lot of territory.

The Gulf of America, what a beautiful name. And it's appropriate. And he suggested he wanted to expand American territory, taking over Greenland and the Panama Canal. There was a lot in this press conference and it feels like we heard a lot of different complaints, a lot of different policy plans. Franco, you were there in the room. So I want to begin with you.

What stood out to you? Yeah, I thought you put it pretty well with the freewheeling. I mean, it really was a rather lengthy circuitous just kind of route he took. It really started off on Biden's new ban on offshore drilling, which Trump said he was going to reverse on his first day in office. He also, you know, complained about vote counting delays, problems with the courts, with judges, with you know, the Justice Department or what he called the Injustice Department. He talked about Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan. He criticized gas heaters and showerheads and faucets.

He even complained about windmills and the impact they're having on whales. Debena, what caught your ear? Well, I mean, I think that the big thing here is the focus on foreign policy, I think was pretty heavy on a lot of that. I mean, whether it was Ukraine or, you know, this sort of splashy, sensational stuff about buying Greenland for national security purposes or making Canada jokingly, I think a 51st state or Wayne Gretzky, Prime Minister of Canada potentially or the Gulf of America or governor, whichever he prefers. But look, I mean, there's a huge focus and all of those

people that we're talking about, all those countries we're talking about are mostly American allies. I mean, Greenland, which is an autonomous territory of Denmark, Canada, Mexico, these are very close allies of the United States. And I think Trump is showing again, that he's going to take a pretty firm hand with allies to see that he can have some leverage over these folks who the United States either helps protect or in NATO alliance with. And you know, Trump looks like he's going to, again, take a pretty strong hand with those countries, you know, which is something that a lot of allies complained about during the first Trump presidency. What struck me is that the through line in most of his discussions today around foreign

policy was this idea that America is getting ripped off, that some allies were taking advantage of the United States, right? This is something he brought up in his conversations about Canada. It's something he sort of suggested too about the Panama Canal, that this was a bad deal. Frank, what stood out to you and how he was describing the United States role with different countries around the world? I mean, just starting with the Panama Canal, I thought it was pretty profound. He did not rule out military intervention. I mean, he was pretty strong about that. You know, he blamed Jimmy Carter for giving, you know, in his words, giving away the Panama

Canal. We gave it away for a dollar. But the deal was that, you know, they have to treat us fairly. They don't treat us fairly. They charge more for our ships and they charge for ships of other countries they charge more for our Navy than they charge for navies of other countries they laugh at us because they think we're stupid but we're not stupid anymore so the Panama Canal is under discussion with them right now they violated

every aspect of the agreement and it's they morally violated it also. I mean, he really, you know, did not hold back. Greenland, the same also talking about potential, you know, he did not rule out military intervention. Well, we need Greenland for national security purposes. I've been told that for a long time, long before I even ran. I mean, people have been talking about it for a long time. You have approximately 45,000 people there. People really don't even know if Denmark has any legal right to it. But if they do, they should give it up because we need it for national security. That's for

the free world. I'm talking about protecting the free world. And he said regardless if something is not done, he threatened massive tariffs against Denmark. I mean it really, you know, you talked about, you know, allies and threatened allies in the United States taken advantage of. It really just sounded so much of his complaints about NATO in the first administration, which he has continued to, you know, talk about here, saying that they are not paying enough money and promising or pledging to, you know, push those countries to raise not only 3% of their defense spending, which is something they've agreed to, to boost it even higher to 5%. You know, this is all about money and geopolitical positioning. Greenland potentially for drilling. Canada about half of US imports of oil and gas come from Canada.

The Panama Canal zone is obviously important for shipping. He also talked about China running the Panama Canal, but there's no evidence that China is running the Panama Canal. It's Panama that runs the Panama Canal. Trump clearly wants to be the one to assert American dominance in the West and in especially the Northern Hemisphere. I want to ask you about another major foreign policy crisis, and that is the war in the Middle East.

We heard the president-elect today reiterate his threat that all hell would break loose if the hostages being held in Gaza are not released by inauguration day. And, and, Frago, what I thought was really striking is that he brought up his Middle East negotiator to the mic and they were talking about, you know, what they've been doing on this issue. And, and yet, you know, the Biden administration is still technically in charge and also working on this issue. And I just thought that was a really striking moment.

He did bring up Steve Whitacuff, who is, you know, one of his envoys working on this. Whitacuff said that he was actually going to go to the region either later today or tomorrow to work on this. It was interesting hearing from him because he definitely set a different tone from the one that Trump was saying. And he spoke with us a little bit after as well, that the Biden administration is being very collaborative and that they are including the Trump officials in these discussions, that he is talking with top Biden officials every day. That is interesting. So it is kind of fascinating there is a collaborative effort. That said, you know, they are arguing that these hostage negotiations, according to,

you know, Witkoff and, you know, to the Trump people, that it's being driven by Trump's strong language and strong threats, as we heard again, very emphatically, many, many times that all hell will break out if the hostages are not returned home before his inauguration. Yeah. And I think that if you're talking about a lot of all of these sort of sensational things that Trump was throwing out there or his grievances and complaints that we've heard repeatedly, if you strip away a lot of what he's talking about, he's really talking about how he wants to transition into the White

House and the kind of president that he wants to be to be able to keep the economy robust in the view that he has of how that should happen. So drilling, you know, for oil, whether that's opening up more leases within the United States or offshore, which is what makes him so upset about the Biden administration protecting these 625 million acres, you know, as well as being able to explore further to deregulate and to get foreign investment, which is what he had started the press conference talking about. All right. Well, on that note, let's take a quick break and we're going to be back in a moment. And we're back. Earlier today, Trump again brought up this idea of imposing

massive tariffs on both the United States neighbor to the North, Canada, and its neighbor to the South, Mexico, even going so far as to say he would rename the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America. Domenico, is this part of his broader strategy to somehow control immigration or do you see this as a real economic policy vision? Well, I think that he uses tariffs and the potential for military force as threats that he holds out over countries that are even ostensibly US allies, especially you think about countries like Canada and Mexico, which the United States has had obviously very close ties with.

I think that's the easiest way to be able to hold leverage over countries that you are friends with, that you're allies with, to be able to say, if you like all the stuff we're doing for you, you got to pay a little bit more. That's kind of his philosophy rather than trying to play nice with them. So we don't know how much of what Trump is holding out to them is an actual threat, or how much of it, you know, he will follow through on. But it's always been part of his strategy, whether it's as president or in business, to say something pretty extreme and pretty far to say that I'll go there. It doesn't matter if you don't cooperate with me.

Yeah. And he uses just to add to that. I mean, he uses the tariffs for leverage on everything, whether it's economic, trade, but particularly on immigration when it comes to Mexico and Canada. And I don't know about you guys, but the Gulf of Mexico to Gulf of America, it reminded me of when George W. Bush tried to change the name of French fries to freedom fries. So wait, I hear what you all are saying about this being sort of a negotiation tactic, but you know, we also have a prior Trump term to look at and tariffs were widely used as a tool by Donald Trump during his first term in office. And so, Franco, do you feel that by listening to his address today, his remarks, his responses to questions, that you're getting a glimpse into how he might govern in a couple of weeks?

I mean, I, uh, yes and no. Um, I think a lot of this is talk. A lot of this is negotiations. He is negotiating advance. Clearly, you know, he has been in this job before and he's bringing back a lot of people who know how the system operates. And they really, really want to, you know, start with a big bang. I mean, it's not just the Trump administration. Every new presidential administration only has kind of a certain amount of time to get, you know, the big things done. And I think that's what Trump is trying to do, you know, with these negotiating

tactics, making these, you know, big pronouncements, that is part of it. But he knows that some of these countries, you know, like Mexico, like Canada, they don't have kind of the economy, you know, the infrastructure, the resources to, you know, it's very risky for them, let me say, to kind of call Trump's bluff if it is a bluff. They have to be very careful how hard they push back. Yeah, I mean, think about Mexico, right?? I mean 88% or so, according to the US government of their horticultural exports, go to the United States. So in other words, a lot of the food that Mexico makes, the crops that they harvest, are destined for the United States. I

mean, but there's an irony in Trump wanting to use tariffs as a threat against a country like Mexico when it comes to this kind of thing because we think about the biggest issue in the election it was prices, right? Grocery prices, whether it's, you know, avocados or anything else that you could think about, right? I mean those things would obviously go up in price if you're leveling huge tariffs against a country like Mexico. So I want to ask you all about one other really important issue before we wrap up today's show. Yesterday was the fourth anniversary

of the January 6th attack on the US Capitol. And Donald Trump has stated that he will be pardoning those involved in that January 6th attack. He was asked about this a couple of times in different ways today. And Franco, did you feel like you got clarity on what he intends to do? Yeah I think definitively on that one very little clarity on that front. I mean he was asked very specifically multiple times whether he would pardon those who attacked police officers.

Trump said this was something they would look at, but pretty much immediately kind of spun to Ashley Babbitt, who was, you know, kind of the Trump supporter who was shot and killed in the US Capitol. He argues that she should not have been shot. Yeah, he was being totally dodgy there and, you know, asked specifically about whether or not he would pardon people who had assaulted police officers and like you said, went directly toward defending his people who had rushed the Capitol. So we don't have a lot more

clarity but he did say, I'll be making major pardons. Yes. And he has pledged to do that on day one previously. So we're going to see just exactly who he winds up pardoning, whether it's people who pleaded guilty to trespassing at the Capitol or whether or not he's going to pardon people who have gotten decades in prison, you know, for things like conspiracy and plotting to essentially stop what happened that day violently. All right. Well, we will be keeping an ear and an eye out on all of those developments as they happen. Let's leave it there for today's show.

I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. I'm Frank Ordonez. I also cover the White House. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, Senior Political Editor and Correspondent. And thank you all, as always, for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.