The NPR Politics Podcast - President Trump Overseas

Episode Date: May 22, 2017

Headlines on Russian meddling continue at home. This episode: host/congressional reporter Scott Detrow, White House correspondent Tamara Keith, and national political correspondent Mara Liasson. More coverage at nprpolitics.org. Email the show at [e-mail]. Find and support your local public radio station at npr.org/stations.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

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This podcast was recorded at 1245 Eastern on Monday, May 22nd. Things may have changed by the time you hear it. Keep up with all of NPR's political coverage at npr.org, on the NPR One app, and on your local public radio station. Okay, here's the show. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast, here to talk about President Trump's overseas trip. He's been to Saudi Arabia. He's in Israel today. This week, he'll also visit the Vatican and attend G7 and NATO meetings. I'm Scott Detrow. I cover Congress for NPR. I'm Mara Liason, national political correspondent.

And right there with the president at each one of those stops, our very own Carmen Sandiego, Tamara Keith. Hey, Tam. Hello. Where in the world are you? I am currently in Jerusalem, and I will say that I am not pooled today, which means that I am not actually at Benjamin Netanyahu's residence with the president right now. I am instead in a press file, which is in a hotel basement. But you're still potting with us from Jerusalem. I think this makes our first international podcast. This is exciting, guys. So we'll get into the characteristics of some of the stops in a little bit, but just overall, big picture, how would you characterize this trip so far?

Well, the president has tried to do his very best to avoid answering too many questions from pesky reporters, though today he did. And we'll talk about that in a second. But generally speaking, Donald Trump looks like he is having the best time ever because all of these, you know, first he went to Saudi Arabia and I think they had three or four arrival ceremonies of one kind or another. He was he was just constantly being fetid with all kinds of pomp and circumstance and red carpets and bands and and jets flying overhead with red, white and blue trails behind them. I saw that they projected a giant Donald Trump head onto the hotel he's staying on. Did you see this? Oh, I did. I did. I mean, there was also a King Salman head on the hotel on the other side.

And driving throughout Riyadh, I ended up going into town a little bit and all around. Everywhere you went, there were these billboards with a picture of Donald Trump and a picture of the king. Wow. So the biggest headline of the Saudi Arabia leg of this trip was an address that the president delivered to dozens of leaders of Middle Eastern nations over the weekend. And a big chunk of the speech was about fighting terrorism. Let's give a listen. A better future is only possible if your nations drive out the terrorists and drive out the extremists. Drive them out. Drive them out of your places of worship. Drive them out of your communities. Drive them out of your holy land. And drive them out of this earth. when he ran for president especially, really characterized Islam as a big part of the problem when it comes to terrorism. Here he was giving an address to dozens of leaders of Muslim-majority

countries. And his tone really shifted, didn't it? His tone really shifted. He talked specifically about Saudi Arabia during the campaign very harshly, talked about how they throw gays off buildings, they treat women as slaves. He called on Hillary Clinton to return the money that the Clinton Foundation had raised from Saudi Arabia. But there he was, at least in the parts of the speech that talked about Islam. He said Islam is one of the world's great faiths. His daughter collected $100 million in money to this foundation she's starting with the World Bank. So he definitely rhetorically shifted to the norm, reverted to the kind of language about Islam as a religion that George W. Bush or Barack Obama could have delivered.

Marc Thiessen Mara, you were saying before that so much of this trip was about another country that was not represented at that meeting and is certainly not on the itinerary for this trip. Yes, and that country is Iran. There's no doubt about that. Iran is a Shiite Muslim country, and you'd almost be excused for thinking, if you listen to Donald Trump's speech, that somehow Iran was behind the Sunni Muslim ISIS movement, which they're not.

The big idea of this trip was to reorient U.S. foreign policy against Iran. And it wasn't just a reaction to Barack Obama's efforts to negotiate with Iran, reach out to whatever moderates there might be there. It also wasn't just a trip in the wayback machine to when the U.S. used to align itself with autocrats in the region because they were considered the most stable. It really is a big idea that if you can get the whole Sunni Arab world and Israel all aligned against Iran, maybe not only can you fight ISIS more effectively, but you could even make peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians. That's, I think, the big idea that comes out of this trip. Tam, can you give us the quick recap of the tone and ways he specifically talked about Iran in this speech? He was very negative about Iran. He basically said that Iran is a source of terrorism. He was quite harsh. For decades, Iran has fueled the fires of sectarian conflict and terror.

It is a government that speaks openly of mass murder, vowing the destruction of Israel, death to America, and ruin for many leaders and nations in this very room. As Mara says, the fact is he thinks that President Obama got a bad deal. He repeats that again and again when you talk about the Iran nuclear deal. One thing that struck me, Tam, just from reading about it from back home, is that he talked a lot about terrorists, but he didn't talk a lot about terrorism and what gives rise to it. And I'm wondering if in any of the briefings, any of the

administration officials were asked, what about Wahhabism? What about the kind of extreme or radical Sunni Islam ideology? After all, ISIS is a Sunni extremist group. And I'm wondering if they have anything to say about that. Well, Rex Tillerson did a briefing on Saturday with the Saudi foreign minister, and that didn't really come up there. And it wasn't a particularly long briefing. And then some senior administration officials briefed late last night. You know, it's this other interesting thing. Like in this speech, President Trump says, we aren't here to lecture you. We are not here to lecture.

We are not here to tell other people how to live, what to do, who to be, or how to worship. Instead, we are here to offer partnership. I mean, not here to lecture. Sounds like you just don't want to talk about the fact that women can't drive and all of the other kind of human rights issues that other presidents have enraged or at least annoyed the Saudis by focusing on. So, you know, things have been going pretty well so far with especially these scripted events, these ceremonies. And there were so many headlines going into this. Could this be

another disaster for the Trump administration? Well, first of all, we know that Donald Trump can be disciplined and can participate in set piece events, read off a teleprompter. The question for him is how long can he sustain that kind of discipline? And that's the question for this trip. So far, so good from the White House point of view. But the question is, can this be a true reset or is this just a momentary respite? And then he comes back to the Russia investigation. Or can he really use this to start a new chapter? And in the best example of that exact thing is that probably the high point of the Trump presidency so far, that address to Congress, it went really well for him. A couple of days later, President Obama wiretapped my phones and we were off to a month's worth of

stories about that. Yep. We know that he can be disciplined. We just don't know if he can stay disciplined. So this is a lot of travel, a lot of events. And President Trump, we know, is someone who does not like being away from home that much. How is he holding up so far? Well, Tam can describe this, but, you know, he did bobble one line in the speech confusing Islamic and Islamist. Honestly confronting the crisis of Islamic extremism and the Islamists and Islamic terror of all kinds. Senior administration officials who briefed about this later were asked about this, and the answer was he's just an exhausted guy, which really leapt out at me. Number one, it's the White House staff's responsibility to make sure he's not an exhausted guy. That's their

job. Number two, he just got there. This is the first stop of the trip and he's already exhausted. This is someone who famously and relentlessly accused all of his opponents in the election of being low on stamina, low energy. You know, he excoriated Hillary Clinton. So that really leapt out at me. He's an exhausted guy and he just started. This is a nine day trip. And it's also remarkable they would say that to a reporter. Yes, a remarkable they'd say that remarkable. They'd let that happen. Just remarkable all around. Yeah. And I will say that this has been an exhausting trip. You know, it's exhausting to fly overnight, show up and immediately have to go to events and do these things.

But President Trump says he doesn't need much sleep. But Reince Priebus, his chief of staff, said he got very little sleep on the flight over. And then he jumped into all of these events. By the end of the day yesterday, the schedule had really slipped. And he bowed out of one of the bilats that he was supposed to do and then actually didn't show up at his final event of the day. They sent Ivanka instead. So President Trump is making headlines as we speak in Israel right now on that leg of the trip. But a couple more things to talk about from this first leg.

So aside from this big speech on terrorism, what were the other kind of big keystone moments of the Saudi Arabia leg for the president? There were some deliverables, as you'd call them in presidential travel speak. These are things that are sort of deals that are hammered out almost entirely in advance, but then they announce them at the big meeting so that they have something to show for it. You talk about the deliverables and the bilat pool spray? Yes, the deliverables discussed in the bilat pool spray. But basically a big, it's basically an arms deal, right? Yes. So it's a combination of about $110 billion arms deal,

which if it is as advertised, would be the single largest agreement to sell arms from the United States to Saudi Arabia. You know, over the course of the entire Obama administration, they announced deals for about $115 billion worth of arms. Not all of that has been delivered yet, but that was over the course of eight years. And here we are a few months in and they are announcing a $110 billion deal. And then there's also some economic components. You know, the Saudi sovereign fund would invest in infrastructure in the United States. Lots of American CEOs came over and held meetings and made announcements about other investments and agreements or sort of understandings that have been worked out. But there's not a ton of detail

on that at this point. OK, so there's one other really important thing I have to ask you about. So at the end of this meeting with Middle Eastern heads of state, Trump and several others gathered around in the dark around a big, glowing, ominous orb and put their hands on it. The Internet had thought so. Was this a plant here? Was it an Infinity Stone? What was going on? It was basically like a giant glowing power button. They were there to activate a counter-terrorism

center, and they put their hands on the orb and then the screens all changed and then it was like I am not saying that that was a room full of super villains but I'm saying standing around in the dark around a glowing orb

looks kind of super villainy also I feel like we should also note the big sword dance how would you describe that were you there in person for the sword dance no I was not pool that day we were sitting in our part of the press file and we heard like all of the shouting and screaming coming from the television press dancing. Trump was in the middle of it,

kind of bobbing back and forth. And Rex Tillerson, of course, who ran Exxon for years and years, he was fully in it, too. And it looked like he had some experience with the sword maneuvering. Yeah, I think he said on one of the Sunday shows, this wasn't my first sword dance. Mara, these international visits are always filled with these moments of pageantry, aren't they? Yes. This one had more than most. Also because he didn't shy away from all these moments. In the past, presidents who go to Saudi Arabia wanted to walk a tightrope. They understood why, even though Saudi Arabia was an autocratic government that didn't give women any rights, we needed them. But we didn't want to embrace their culture. And Trump has no compunction about that.

No, and he seemed to enjoy the kind of mile-long, seemingly red carpet that was literally rolled out of the airport. Yes, and being treated with the respect that he often complains that he doesn't get in the United States. Yeah, I think Mara really hit on something, which is that there's a sense in a lot of these interviews that the president has done around the 100 days that that he thought that being president would mean that that people would just treat him differently, that he'd be treated with more respect because he was president of the United States. And, of course, the reality is that president of the United States is actually like a giant kick me sign, especially in the United States. But he came to Saudi Arabia and it was like he was a king. So that was Saudi Arabia. Trump is now in Israel. He's just been there for a few hours as we talk.

How are things going so far? Well, he went to the Western Wall, which is this very significant religious site. It's in contested territory. And so President Trump is actually the first sitting U.S. president to go there. President Obama went as a candidate, but it's seen as sort of politically treacherous. Yeah, I didn't realize he was the first because I feel like I've seen so many pictures of prominent politicians visiting. Prominent politicians do visit, but not sitting U.S. presidents until now. Yeah. And, you know, he put a note in the wall, as people do. We don't know what was in that note or what type of prayer he was offering. But it was a moment.

And leading up to it, there was all of this drama and debate about, would he take Prime Minister Netanyahu with him? And if he did, would that be sending a signal that the U.S. believed that it was Israeli territory and not, you know, it's contested. But the administration has been absolutely disciplined in their effort not to say that it was part of Israel. All they've said is it's part of Jerusalem. And Rex Tillerson was asked about that again today on Air Force One on the way over. And he was very good to say the Western Wall is in Jerusalem. Right.

But Mara, you said a key word there, disciplined, because all of this statecraft is happening. And so far, especially over the weekend, President Trump was very on point. But he, reporters got a chance to yell some questions at him for the first time when he was standing with Prime Minister Netanyahu. And Russia came up, that meeting in the Oval Office that created so many headlines came up, and Trump seemed to volunteer this without being specifically asked about it. Akiva. I never mentioned the word or the name Israel. Never mentioned it during that conversation. And we're all saying I did. So you had to know the story alone.

Never mentioned the word Israel. A little hard to hear, but Trump's saying, just so you understand, I never mentioned the word Israel. This, of course, gets back to that Washington Post story that President Trump passed over key intelligence to Russia when he was meeting with Russia's foreign minister. And seemingly, there had been some speculation that Israel was the source of this intelligence. Nobody had said it out loud until Trump did. Well, and nobody had ever said that Trump said that it was Israel. As a matter of fact, H.R. McMaster briefed and said not only did he not say the word Israel, that the president didn't even know the origin of the highly sensitive intelligence that he

is reported to have passed on to the Russians. It's been reported that Israel was the source and that Israel hadn't given the United States permission to share it with anybody because it was so highly sensitive. But nobody ever said that he told the Russians it came from Israel. And H.R. McMaster even said he didn't know Russians it came from Israel. And H.R. McMaster even said he didn't know where it came from. The president was not told where it came from. Now it seems pretty clear it came from Israel. Now it seems pretty clear it came from Israel. The president, once again, has returned our attention to the Russia story that he had so mercifully escaped from in the first couple of days of his foreign trip. And I'll just say that the question was, it came from Bloomberg's Margaret Tollev, and she was asking Netanyahu if he had any concerns

about intelligence cooperation with the U.S. And he said, no, not at all. As a matter of fact, our intelligence relationship is great or greater than ever. He said something to that effect. And according to the pool reporter, they both seemed eager to answer the question. Netanyahu said intelligence cooperation is terrific. It's never been better. Now, Mara said last week that sometimes presidential scandals will like haunt presidents to the ends of the earth on these trips. You said that it's like a cloud of dirt that follows. Mara, you did say say Linus, but it is. I was wrong. I was wrong, wrong, wrong. It was Pigpen, as many listeners have pointed out.

And I appreciate that correction. And I really appreciate that we got to see a lot of pictures of Pigpen with the cloud. We've got to get the peanuts facts right. And here we are. We've got to get our peanuts facts right. And I didn't. So I apologize. But Mara, you had said that, Tam, so far on this trip. I mean, how how visible in terms of in terms of just the feel and the vibe has this Russia scandal been as Trump has has sat there with heads of state in these ceremonies?

Well, there were two big stories, two additional big stories that broke mere moments after Air Force One went up into the air to come over to Saudi Arabia. But then President Trump was in this giant hug from a red carpet for two days. And it's not clear that he really encountered any of it. But today, it's going to be a thing. Yeah. And just to fill in a little on that, because it happened since our last podcast, as you said, literally Air Force One was like taxiing at Andrews and the New York Times publishes a story reporting that during the meeting in the Oval Office with Russia's foreign minister, the same one we were just talking about, President Trump said that Comey was, quote, a nut job. And more importantly, Trump told the Russian officials that by firing Comey, Trump had relieved a great pressure on him when it came to that Russia investigation.

Now, later in the week, Trump will be at these NATO and G7 summits. Usually there's a lot more press conferences, events like that. Do we know if he's going to be standing there in front of the International Press Corps fielding questions on this? I have to say at the moment he does not have any press conferences scheduled for this entire trip. That could change. But at the moment, there are none scheduled. And he actually at some point yesterday in one of these one on ones, or we'd call them bilats with one of the Arab nation leaders, he said, Oh, yeah, I'm going to have a press conference in maybe a couple of weeks, and I'm going to talk about how well we're doing against ISIS.

So what are the big highlights of the rest of the week in terms of visits and meetings? Tomorrow, he is meeting with Mahmoud Abbas, who is the Palestinian Authority president. Then we, I will be on Air Force One, I'll be pooled for the next two days. So then we jet off in Air Force One to Rome. And the following morning, he will meet with the Pope. That will be an interesting meeting. Pope Francis told reporters that he will keep an open mind because, you know, that's kind of his thing. But during the campaign, the two had a back and forth when the Pope said that anyone who talks about building walls is not acting like a Christian.

And Donald Trump responded saying that that was wrong of the pope to say, but then saying that when ISIS attacks the Vatican, Pope Francis will wish that Donald Trump was president. So that will be an interesting meeting. Well, now Donald Trump is president. He is. And now they're meeting. So one other thing to note, we were kind of talking about the developments with the Russian story. One other thing to note, we're learning this morning that former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn plans on invoking the Fifth Amendment to avoid turning over documents to or testifying in front of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Mara, what do you make of that? Well, it's certainly within his right to take the fifth. However, Donald Trump had a lot of

things to say about people taking the fifth during the campaign. He said, the mob takes the fifth. If you're innocent, why are you taking the fifth? You know, Michael Flynn, actually, now that you mentioned it, said very similar things, too. And Michael Flynn said this about Hillary Clinton. Yes, about Hillary Clinton. He pleaded the fifth. We never heard of him again. This is like a third world country. This is like Watergate. But worse, that was Donald Trump during the campaign. So I think this will just give another boost to the stories about the Russia investigation. It shows you that even though there's been a special counsel appointed, who certainly will look into everything Flynn, that Congress is still on the job and still wants to investigate. You know, this kind of reminds me of the Hillary Clinton email thing where, you know, every few days there was something related to emails and it just sort of drip, drip, drip, drip, drip. And it's like every day, every couple of days, there's going to be something

related to Russia. Right. And, you know, the big question about this trip, which has gone successfully from the White House's point of view, is can this be a real reset, not just a momentary respite? In other words, can the president come back and turn the page? And I think that that will really depend on whether he is willing to embrace the positive aspects of the special counsel being appointed. And by that, I mean, when you have a special counsel investigation and you're the White House, you get an opportunity to say, we are not going to talk about this at all, or we're going to designate one person in the White House counsel's office to answer questions about it. We're going to turn our attention to everything else on our agenda. Now, other White Houses have done that when they've been under

these kinds of investigations, but the president hasn't seemed willing or able to do that. But that's the big question, because if he is, there can be a silver lining, at least in the short and medium term, to the fact that a special counsel was appointed. Marc Thiessen Well, if he did that based on his Twitter feed and what he says at every press conference, that would be the biggest pivot of all. Marc Thiessen The biggest pivot of all. Marc Thiessen Well, a couple other things to note in terms of the horizon and things that we're looking for over the next few days. Tomorrow, we're going to have another public hearing on Capitol Hill about this Russia

investigation. We're going to hear from former CIA Director John Brennan. So we'll be watching that. And non-Russia related, the Trump administration is releasing its full budget proposal this week. They did release a budget plan earlier this year. This upcoming one will be for the fiscal year that begins in October. Both of you regularly point this out. A budget proposal is just a proposal, and the final budget is much more something that congressional leaders put together than the president. I would say it's a vision document. That's all. It's a vision document and sometimes a political headache for your allies on the Hill who might be forced to vote on something that they really don't want to vote on. So that's, yeah. And Mara, you just pointed out.

And also on Wednesday, I think, the 24th, the Congressional Budget Office scores the latest Obamacare replacement bill that the House passed. The House didn't bother waiting around for the CBO score. And that, I think, will be big news because it will complicate the efforts underway in the Senate to pass an Obamacare replacement bill. Oh, and that applause is my cue. All right. Well, thanks, Tam. Have a great trip. I guess we'll talk to you. You'll have been to like eight countries between now and the time we next talk to you. So have fun and good luck. We will be back for more in our Thursday episode. That is it for today. A reminder that every morning you can listen to Up First, NPR's morning news podcast that gets you up to speed on everything you need to know for the day. Our email here is nprpolitics at npr.org. I'm Scott Detrow. I cover Congress. I'm Mara Liason, national political correspondent. And I'm Tamara Keith in Jerusalem. Have fun, Tam, and thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast. podcast.