The NPR Politics Podcast - Primary Day In Alaska And Wyoming: How Trump's Impeachment Impacts Both Races

Episode Date: August 16, 2022

This episode is available to everyone, though on some platforms there may be a short delay in availability between the version for subscribers (which is sponsor-free) and non-subscribers (which includes sponsor messages). Thank you for your patience! Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Ak.), one of seven Republican senators to vote to convict Donald Trump in his second impeachment trial, faces primary voters who can choose between her and several other candidates, including a candidate backed by the state Republican Party. Alaska's new non-partisan primary system, almost guarantees that Murkowski will gather enough support to make it to November — unlike Wyoming Rep. Liz Cheney (R), whose vote to impeach Trump could cost her dearly. Meanwhile, former Alaska governor Sarah Palin (R) seeks election to the state's at-large congressional district. This episode: White House correspondent Asma Khalid, congressional correspondent Deirdre Walsh, Alaska Public Media's Washington correspondent Liz RuskinLearn more about upcoming live shows of The NPR Politics Podcast at nprpresents.org.Support the show and unlock sponsor-free listening with a subscription to The NPR Politics Podcast Plus. Learn more at plus.npr.org/politics Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Gretchen calling from Waikoloa Beach, Hawaii, where I am currently watching a honu, or a green sea turtle, find its breakfast. This podcast was recorded at 2.07 p.m. Eastern Time on Tuesday, August 16th. Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but hopefully I will still be enjoying the beautiful views from this island. Aloha! I can confess I am definitely a tad jealous of that situation. I am so jealous. Such a beautiful place. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. I'm Deirdre Walsh. I cover Congress. And a happy primary day to our listeners in Wyoming and Alaska. The elections in both of these states could have a far-reaching impact on the future of the Republican Party.

In Wyoming, GOP Congresswoman Liz Cheney is expected to lose the race for her party's nomination. And we'll talk about that all in depth tomorrow. But, dear Jersons, you are here. I have got to ask you before we get into today's show. Why exactly is Liz Cheney in such trouble? Cheney's in big political trouble because she picked a huge fight with former President Donald Trump. She broke with him after the attack on the Capitol on January 6th. She's the vice chair of the committee investigating the January 6th attack. And she was one of 10 House Republicans to vote for impeaching former President Trump after the attack on the Capitol.

So she has become sort of the leading public nemesis of the former president. And she's really gone all in on her commitment, which she says over and over again, that her goal is really to make sure that Trump doesn't get reelected again. All right. Well, moving on to today's show, we're going to focus on the other primary state where voters are casting ballots, and that is Alaska, where exactly 14 years after she first stepped into the national spotlight as a potential vice presidential candidate, Sarah Palin might be on the brink of a political comeback. So let's head to the last frontier and bring in our friend Liz Ruskin

with Alaska Public Media. She's joining us from Anchorage today and welcome back to the podcast. Thank you. Great to be here. Liz, it is great to have you. And Sarah Palin is running for a seat in the U.S. House. But technically, I know from some of your reporting that she is on, in fact, two different ballots today. So can you just explain the logistics of that to us? Yeah, she is running in the special election to fill the remainder of the late Don Young's term, which expires in January. And she's also in the regular primary election for the next full term. So in other words, if she wins the special, she would take her seat in September, but then she would still need to win November's election to have a House seat after January. I am clear because I have heard quite a bit about ranked choice voting in Alaska. Are the ballots that Sarah Palin is on, are they the same? Can you just walk us through the process?

Yeah, it is confusing to Alaska voters too. Alaska is at the start of a big experiment to see if how we vote reduces polarization. So we have this new system adopted by voters in 2020, and it starts with an open primary, all candidates on one ballot, regardless of party. Voters pick one, and the top four vote-getters advance to the general election. In the general, we've got ranked choice voting. So voters choose their favorite, and maybe also a second, third, and fourth. At the end, the losing candidate is eliminated, and the ballots that went to that person are reallocated according to the voter's second choice. And that continues until two candidates remain, and then the one with the most votes wins. And I think Alaskans were, you know, somewhat confused about this, these two methods, two methods, pick one for the primary and rank for the general.

But then Congressman Don Young died in March. So now there's a lot of confusion because we've got a special and a regular. both the ranked general for the remainder of the House term and the pick one primary for all the other races, including U.S. House. Gosh, even though she's explained that, you've explained it very clearly, but it still feels like mind-boggling to me to follow this process. I'm mostly just doing PSAs these days, explaining what I just said over and over in different ways. So Deirdre, I want to bring you into the conversation because Sarah Palin has,

you know, not been a household name for, I would say, quite a while, but she's still certainly a recognizable name. And I'm curious how you see her role in the modern Republican Party. Palin really has a big influence in the modern Republican Party. I mean, she rose to national prominence on the 2008 Republican presidential ticket. And even though she wasn't successful in that election, she sort of still went on to be, you know, a big voice in the party. I mean, she didn't keep her job as governor of Alaska, but she did what some other high profile Republican officials have done. You know, she became a Fox contributor. She went on reality TV.

Oh, yes. But she also became the sort of OG Tea Party voice before the rise of the 2010 Tea Party. And in that midterm election, Republicans flipped 63 House seats. And there was sort of this real change in the dynamic in the House of Representatives and a real sort of switch in the message. Tea Party Republicans at the time were really focused on repealing Obamacare, slashing spending. But they also had a really sort of anti-mainstream media streak, anti-establishment streak. And I think the policies of the Tea Party have sort of come and gone since a lot of that class is no longer in Congress. But that attitude and that posture in terms of like kind of in-your-face Republican message is really a lot of what the House Republican caucus is like today. And the German that you're saying is Sarah Palin. Totally. I think she definitely had sort of a big early influence on a lot of the figures that have come after her. I mean, you look at some of the high profile conservative

women in the House Republican conference today, like Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert. I mean, they have sort of adopted the, you know, go on Fox, you know, use a lot of fiery language and have a national message more about a conservative identity and fight against the establishment, as opposed to sort of focusing on limited government, lower taxes as sort of their leading message. Have you been able to gauge, Liz, how popular Sarah Palin is with the electorate in Alaska? I mean, it has been more than a decade since she was governor sitting there in political office. And I'm just curious what her odds are as you see it. There has not been a lot of polling. So some of this is just my impression and some of it is

looking at the limited polling that there is. But Alaska is a transient place. 2009 was a long time ago. A lot of people know her now from her national profile as a right-wing celebrity and conservative, you know, icon. And they see her as a champion of their causes and their culture, much like Trump. But isn't that to some degree a real selling point to be a national celebrity within the conservative movement? Because, you know, in some of my travels to other parts of the country, I always hear that all politics is national nowadays. And she's got that national brand. Oh, absolutely. And she's got that going for her. And then, you know, going against her is that she has high negatives here. I think the other thing to remember, Sarah Palin was one of the earliest supporters of then-candidate Donald Trump when he launched his presidential campaign.

And he supported her and endorsed her and has clearly campaigned for her in Alaska. So, I mean, I think that she is very closely tied to Trump and she's made that a big part of her message. All right. Well, let's take a quick break of where Sarah Palin would fit into the Alaskan electorate, but it's also where she would fit into the Republican Party. And so from your conversations and your sourcing, is the Republican Party apparatus excited at the idea of a about Palin coming to Washington. I think she would feel at home in the House Republican Conference, especially in the sort of right wing. I mean, she clearly has a national name ID and is pretty freely critical of Republican leaders. So I don't necessarily think she'll be a sort of a loyal, you know, conference supporter. And I think, you know, like House GOP leader Kevin McCarthy has had issues with a lot of the conservative bomb throwers in his conference. I mean, those might seem like small potatoes compared to what kind of, you know, riling up of the base or of opposition to policies that Sarah Palin could pull off if she decides she doesn't want to fall in line with, you know, leadership's priorities. And Liz Ruskin, there is another high-profile Republican primary race today in your state. That is Senator Lisa Murkowski. She is once again trying to fend off threats from within her own party to win re-election. So just tell us a little bit more about what exactly is going on with that race. You know, Murkowski can't be primaried in the

traditional sense. And the state Republican Party would definitely ditch Murkowski if they could. Her approval rate among Republicans here is really bad. And the party has endorsed a challenger, Kelly Chewbacca, who has Trump's endorsement, too. But with Alaska's new system, there is no party primary anymore, so they can't really oust her. So it sounds like what you're saying, Liz, is the main reason Lisa Murkowski remains competitive there in your state is because Republicans are not the ones necessarily exclusively deciding her fate. Right, exactly. With the open primary, everyone decides on everyone. You know, we were speaking earlier about Liz Cheney in Wyoming. And in that context, I've been struck that although Senator Murkowski voted to convict Donald Trump on impeachment

charges, that decision is not necessarily being used as a cudgel against her, at least in this primary. Well, I mean, as Liz mentioned, the system there makes it harder for the Republican Party to retaliate against Murkowski for that vote, right, because of the way Alaskans are voting. And she's been able to present herself more as this sort of bipartisan consensus builder to reach out to independents and Democrats. She was involved in big bipartisan talks on infrastructure. She can brag about the millions or tens of millions of dollars she's bringing back to Alaska by being part of that deal, as opposed to Liz Cheney, whose sort of basically entire political identity right now is being the chief critic of Donald Trump in a state that's, you know, mostly Republican and in a primary matchup where she's facing a lot more Republican voters weighing in on her fate than in this system that Alaska has set up.

Yeah, I think that Murkowski would definitely have lost a regular Republican primary in large part because of her impeachment vote. But now that Alaska has changed the system, it's not just Republicans voting in the primary on Murkowski's fate. So she's kind of immune to whatever punishments the Republican Party and Republican voters would try to inflict in the primary, at least. And then ranked choice voting definitely helps her in the general. All right. Well, we will keep following what's going on there in Alaska. Liz Ruskin of Alaska Public Media, thank you so much for your time and your reporting. We really appreciate it. My pleasure. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. And I'm Deirdre Walsh. I cover Congress. And thank you all, as always, for listening to

the NPR Politics Podcast.