The NPR Politics Podcast - Remember 9/11? Most Military Recruits Don't.

Episode Date: September 5, 2023

Most new recruits to active duty military service were either very young or not yet born when the attacks of September 11th, 2001 took place. As the U.S. nears the 22nd anniversary of the attacks, how is military recruitment changing to adapt to a post-War on Terror landscape — and what impact does it have on military readiness? This episode: voting correspondent Miles Parks, Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman, and political correspondent Susan Davis.The podcast is produced by Elena Moore and Casey Morell. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Audio in this podcast was produced by Lexie Schapitl.Unlock access to this and other bonus content by supporting The NPR Politics Podcast+. Sign up via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Nicole in Pax River, Maryland. After 11 years, today's my last day in the U.S. Navy. This podcast was recorded at 1.10 p.m. on Tuesday, September 5th, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, and I'll be a civilian for the first time in my adult life. But I'll still be thinking about those deployed and stationed overseas, like my older brother Tim and his wife Courtney, currently stationed in Okinawa, Japan. Enjoy the show. Thank you for your service. Seriously, very appropriate timestamp today, too. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting.

I'm Tom Bowman. I cover the Pentagon. And I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics. And next week marks 22 years since the September 11th attacks. I'm sure most of our listeners remember where they were that day. And those attacks either weren't born on September 11, 2001, or were very small. How has that affected the entire military and the tone of this training? Well, it's really amazing when you think of it. Again, they were either toddlers or weren't even born at the time. And the thing now with the military is they've forgotten about, really, 9-11.

They don't even talk about it anymore. Afghanistan is over. Iraq, there's some U.S. troops here, but it's really over. So these Marines will be looking toward China. It's all China all the time. You know, when I was down at Parris Island at their boot camp, I was struck by some of the questions, particularly those asked by Staff Sergeant Mark Anthony Ross. And I wanted to ask Hey, by a show of hands, who was born after the September 11 attacks? Hey, most of us, right? Hey, put your hands down. And I wanted to ask one of the recruits, Angel Benitez, what he remembers about 9-11.

I don't remember much. I was pretty young. Yeah. So you were, you would have been... One year old. A year old. Which is absolutely amazing. I was covering 9-11. I was at the Pentagon that day. So it makes me feel incredibly old. But here's the thing, Miles, not only were these people toddlers or, you know, very young or not even born at the time, their drill sergeant was in kindergarten. And that time after 9-11, military recruitment kind of happened on its own. People were just looking up thinking, what can I do? And a lot of people went to go sign up, right? Absolutely right. Huge numbers of people went into the military, folks who would never would have gone in before. And I gather that's not happening

right now. It is not happening now. And a big reason is the economy is doing so well. You talk to recruiters, they say the best that can happen to us is a recession. The other thing is COVID. They were kept out of the high schools, which is a fertile ground for recruiters. For two years, they're only, because of COVID, the pandemic, they're only just getting back into the high school. So they're having a real hard time. The Army was 15,000 soldiers short last year. This year, they're doing a bit better, but they'll likely be 10,000 soldiers short of what they need. Sue, I wonder, do you see the same thing in our politics, just in terms of hearing that really,

really striking tape where we're hearing recruits who just aren't thinking about 9-11 as the recent past, thinking of it more like a historical event? Do you see the shadow of 9-11 kind of slowly receding away from our politics? Yes and no. I still think that 9-11 and the Iraq and Afghanistan wars that followed are still living out in our politics, seeing the effects from those. I also think about Iraq and Afghanistan veterans ran for Congress in significant numbers after the 9-11 attacks. Not only did the 9-11 attacks provoke a lot of people into military service, I'm thinking of members like former Republican Representative Adam Kinzinger. You know, he said he was driving in his car that day. And when people saw the images, they literally

went to recruiting offices. And it became part of a lot of people's political stories, both Republicans and Democrats for many election cycles, arguably even to this day, seek out veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan who have part of their story that 9-11 provoked patriotism to serve. And a lot of those members are also seen as stars in the Congress. There's not as many military veterans in politics as there used to be. The very obvious reason for that is we don't have a military draft anymore. But the bulk of veterans that serve in public office today are now Iraq and Afghanistan veterans. I do think that has shaped, particularly in the Republican Party, shifting views on foreign policy. And when I was thinking

about this, Tom, in terms of recruiting, you know, these kids, well, now seem to be adults. They don't remember 9-11, but they also grew up over the last 18 to 20 years when the Iraq and Afghanistan wars was part of their ecosystem. And, you know, those wars ended complicated. They're over now. The withdrawal from Afghanistan was messy. It was chaotic. And, you know, those wars ended complicated. They're over now. The withdrawal from Afghanistan was messy. It was chaotic. And sometimes I wonder if that maybe also affects these kids. Not only do they not remember 9-11, but the result of it was messy. You know, it's interesting. Anecdotal evidence shows that some of these veterans of Afghanistan and Iraq, they don't want their kids to sign up because they remember the long deployment,

sometimes a year-long deployment. And you're right. These wars did not end in victory like World War II. They ended with a withdrawal, a chaotic withdrawal from Kabul. And then Iraq, there were no weapons of mass destruction. So even military people I talk with at the Pentagon say that was the worst strategic decision this country's ever made going into Iraq, the mess it created, and also the terrorist groups that were created by going into Iraq. ISIS was created as a result of the Iraq War. So then, Tom, when you're talking to these new recruits in South Carolina, what are they saying about why they joined?

A lot of them are saying they joined just in general service to the nation. And the military now is touting, be all you can be. Remember that ad back in the 80s and 90s? They're bringing it back. It's self-improvement, it's leadership skills, it's making me a better person, maybe more marketable. And the benefits, it's college money, right? They're going to look at other incentives too in the coming months and years. How do we draw people in by giving them that kind of money? But it's a tough, tough draw, again, with the economy being so strong. All right. Let's take a quick break.

And when we get back, I want to talk a little bit about the effect that this recruiting issue has on the military and other things that they're trying to do to solve it. And we're back. And Sue, Tom mentioned that, you know, the military is kind of trying to reposition itself as being a self-improvement tool as opposed to saying to kids, you know, you need to go overseas to protect this nation. What do you think about that? I think it's an issue that a lot of people are deeply concerned about. You hear it a lot on Capitol Hill when they have military leaders coming up. Like this question of recruitment is something that consumes people who worry not only about military readiness and the future, but preparedness, you know, the type of military recruits you need now. Wars are fought differently now. You need a lot more sort of computer literacy, tech literacy to be able to be effective. And I think I hear it all the time on Capitol Hill.

And there's been a lot of criticism from Republicans towards the Biden administration because that's, you know, the party in power you're always going to blame. But I think there's a broader problem here. And I'm fascinated, Tom, that recruitment now, the pitch is kind of like it's a lifestyle to be in the military now. And they have to offer lifestyle benefits and incentives to get people to sign up. No, that's definitely part of it. They have to offer a lot more benefits, college money and so forth. And again, they're looking at other incentives they're experimenting with right now. But you raise an interesting question about what is the future of warfare? Because that's a big part of this too. They're willing to bring in older recruits, older officers who have cyber skills,

because that's going to be the future, particularly against China, which is putting a huge amount of money into cyber, anti-satellite warfare. They're trying to catch up with China because they're putting, again, a lot of effort into that. So some guy that works at Silicon Valley is a cyber expert. They're willing to take that person in as maybe a reserve officer. Maybe that guy or woman, they're in their 30s, which you would never do that in the past, but they're doing it now because warfare is changing. Drones, cyber, anti-satellite warfare, underwater drones.

And look at what we've seen in Ukraine. It's a huge drone war. Warfare is changing. Well, and this is part of what I'm a little curious about, Tom. Is the military viewing these recruitment challenges as just a normal issue that they're going to overcome? Or is this like a four-alarm fire, this kind of lack of- I don't think it's a four-alarm fire, but I was talking with the Army Secretary, Christine Wormuth, and she said, this is going to be with us for a while. Because again, the economy is strong. There are many other jobs, signing bonuses.

I was talking to one general who said, I saw a bus go by. It said $15,000 to sign up for this job. How do I compete with that? He said, it's a war for talent. So that's what they're doing now. But consequently, as a result of the numbers I mentioned, 15,000 drop in needed recruits last year, maybe 10,000 this year. They're going to have to make trims all around the country in the Army. And that's going to be a challenge. Members of Congress, obviously, that's going to be something they're going to be concerned about. If their base in Texas or North Carolina, we're going to drop by 1,000, 2,000 soldiers. The ripple effects to the business community, that's going to be a real concern. But again, hard to get these people to sign up for the military.

That's a fascinating connection that I'm not sure I would have made is that a strong economy can be bad for military recruitment. When unemployment's really low, there's fewer people looking for work or for maybe to sign up. Can I ask to both of you guys, looking ahead at 2024, at a time when America is not in the middle of an active conflict, how much do you think the military is going to be a political issue next year? It's definitely going to be a political issue. The whole notion of a woke military, the programs they have, you know, anti-discrimination programs, you know, those are the target of Republicans claiming it's a woke military. Interestingly, when you look at the surveys within the military, the army has, it's like, why don't you want to join? And 5% say because the army is woke.

I mean, it's a very small number, but it shows you it's resonating with some people. It's certainly been a component in the conversation about woke military and socially liberal policies has been part of the Republican primary dynamic. How much that registers among a general election and all the bigger, broader issues, I'm not sure. But I do think broadly the military and military readiness are's going to be a big issue in the 2024 election too. Now, does military recruitment itself? I'm not entirely sure, but the broader idea of who can lead a strong U.S. military, I think is always sort of a foundational pillar of any presidential election. The other thing too, is the chaotic withdrawal from Kabul. It's going to be a huge political issue. You know that being on the Hill, but the Republicans are using that as a bludgeon to beat

Biden with. And in particular, you don't see the administration ever talking about Afghanistan. But when Republicans bring it up, and I spent a lot of time in Afghanistan, I'm sitting back saying, well, hang on a second. Who signed the deal with the Taliban? That was President Trump. He wanted to remove all U.S. troops. This was in the deal in May of 2021. Now, Biden kicked that down the road to August. And then after Trump was defeated, he sent people to the Pentagon saying, we want all American troops out on January 15th, five days before the inaugural. So there's a lot of blame to go around here. It isn't just, it was clearly chaotic, the withdrawal, and it was a mess. But what would it have looked like if all American troops left January 15th of 2021? It would have been a bloodbath. We also talk a lot on the podcast about institutions and faith in institutions. And I think you're also seeing at this point in time, a bit of a dip in the faith in the military, you know, 20 years after 9-11, where there was a huge rallying around the flag effect in this

country. And confidence in the U.S. military, at least according to the latest Gallup poll, is at a 20-something year low. I do think that all of that stuff cumulatively has affected the public opinion, not only of the military, but America's role in the world. And how that shakes out, I'm not sure. But it's different. It's certainly different now than it was 5, 10, 15 years ago. It's absolutely fascinating. And it's a question I keep asking people. And they're worried about it too. Yeah. And what's the reason behind that? I think part of it is Trump saying, my generals, right? And then General Milley, remember walking through Lafayette Square with Trump with his

combat uniform? I think there was a sense the military was aligned with Trump. And the military said, listen, you know, we're apolitical. And General Milley has said that repeatedly. But I think there was that problem of Trump saying, my generals, or I want to send the military out to these cities where, well, the crime is. I think that's something they're going to have to deal with. And I think that's a hangover from the Trump administration. And, you know, strong economy.

It's tough to get teachers. It's tough to get police officers. And it's tough to get people to join the military. Okay, well, let's wrap it up for today. I'm Miles Parks it's tough to get people to join the military. Okay, well, let's wrap it up for today. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting. I'm Tom Bowman. I cover the Pentagon. And I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.