The NPR Politics Podcast - Roundup: Activists Pitch Women — Secretly Vote For Harris

Episode Date: October 11, 2024

Donald Trump campaigns in Aurora, Colorado today, a city that he's targeted with the brand of anti-immigrant rhetoric that has propelled his reelection effort. And Vice President Harris has a new surrogate out on the campaign trail: Barack Obama, who is calling out Black men for what he sees as sexist reluctance to support Harris.And there is an effort to convert Republicans in swing states into quiet Harris supporters, by educating them about the secret ballot and assuring them that their families and communities don't need to know who they voted for.This episode: White House correspondent Asma Khalid, campaign correspondent Franco Ordoñez, senior national political correspondent Mara Liasson, and national political correspondent Sarah McCammon.The podcast is produced by Jeongyoon Han, Casey Morell and Kelli Wessinger. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.Listen to every episode of the NPR Politics Podcast sponsor-free, unlock access to bonus episodes with more from the NPR Politics team, and support public media when you sign up for The NPR Politics Podcast+ at plus.npr.org/politics.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Autograph Collection Hotels, with over 300 independent hotels around the world, each exactly like nothing else. Autograph Collection is part of the Marriott Bonvoy portfolio of hotel brands. Find the unforgettable at AutographCollection.com. Hi, this is Margaret calling from outside the United States Embassy in Lisbon, Portugal, where I just dropped off my ballot for the 2024 election. This podcast was recorded at 1226 p.m. Eastern Time on Friday, October 11th of 2024. Things may have changed before you hear this, but I'll still be observing election season from

abroad with West Wing reruns and constantly tracking my ballot online to make sure my vote is counted. Okay, here's the show. Well, hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. I'm Franco Adonis. I cover the campaign. And I'm Mara Liason, senior national political correspondent. And today on the show, we are going to begin our weekly roundup from the campaign trail. And Franco, you are joining us from Colorado because the Republican presidential nominee, Donald Trump, is out there. Sounds like quite a scene where you are, but I think I can safely say that Colorado is not a real competitive state that Trump is realistically going to win. So that being said, why is he spending precious time during these final weeks of the campaign out there?

Yeah, I mean, it's very an unorthodox kind of move. It's not the thing that many presidential candidates would do. But as we know, President Trump is not a typical presidential candidate. I mean, the reason is, is because Colorado or specifically Aurora, which is where he is, fits into a broader theme of his campaign, and that is immigration. Former President Trump has been pushing immigration. It's his biggest theme of the campaign. And Aurora is central to that. At his debate with Harris, he put a spotlight on Aurora and basically mischaracterized some of the challenges that this city has had, promoting this idea that there's

a migrant invasion in this city and using Aurora as an example to his narrative of the country in chaos. So the reason he's here is to kind of promote that narrative. He has been teasing that he was going to come to Aurora, much like Springfield, Ohio, where he infamously made the argument that Haitian migrants were eating cats and dogs. He's been doing somewhat of a similar false narrative here in Aurora, claiming that migrants have taken over the city and local city officials, including the Republican mayor, have been pushing back fiercely on that narrative.

And one moment in which Trump spoke about Aurora was in Juneau, Wisconsin earlier this week. You see what they're doing in Colorado where you have a very weak governor, he's very weak, he's a liberal guy and very weak. And they've attacked Aurora, Venezuela gangs, young guys. They have weapons like our military has, the equivalent of our military. And they've taken over buildings in Aurora, Colorado. And the governor, he doesn't know what to do because he wants to be nice because he's stupid. And he doesn't really know what to do. They need to I think they need a new governor. On day one of my new administration, the invasion of savage criminals ends.

And on that same day, the largest deportation in American history begins. I'll just add, Asma, that that apartment complex, there is a little bit of truth in that in that there was one set of apartments in Northwest Aurora that did have, there was video of some migrants going door to door with weapons. But local officials, including the city police, said it was a very isolated incident.

And in a city of 400,000 people, it's just not an accurate characterization of this city, which the campaign is calling a war zone. And I've been here for the last few days. It's certainly not a war zone. It has its challenges, of course. Any big city does. But it's a pretty significant mischaracterization. Franco, have you gotten a chance to go out and talk to people in the community?

I'm curious how local residents are reacting to Donald Trump's diatribes about their city. Yeah, I actually went to that apartment complex yesterday and spoke to a lot of residents around the complex, immigrants from Mexico, from Honduras, from Latin America, across Latin America, who felt, you know, very disappointed in kind of the rhetoric, felt it was certainly an anti-immigrant message. You know, they weren't naive to the politics of the moment. One construction worker told me that it's very typical. They get this every four years, especially with former President Donald Trump. You know, that said, I also moved beyond that, went to some more other suburban neighborhoods,

middle class neighborhoods, where I heard more of a mix of views, including with some Trump supporters who were very glad that he was here and, you know, felt concern about the rise in immigration in this city. This is a big city. It's one of the most diverse cities in all of Colorado. And, you know, there are some people in, you know, in this area of Aurora who are not happy with it. One woman and her mother told me that they were scared because of the changes. Another told me that they were very concerned about the increase in taxes and pointed to friends of hers who were schoolteachers who say resources are being depleted. I also talked to a city councilor who was like, look, this is these are there are issues in this city, especially affordable housing.

But, you know, felt like the diversity of the city, you know, enriched Aurora. And, you know, one of the pleasures of Aurora is that it has been an affordable city to live in, practically a suburb of Denver. But, you know, in like many cities across the country right now, there is a big divide on this issue. And clearly the former president is trying to, you know, kind of put a wedge into that. Well, Mara, I want to ask you about this because it feels like what Franco is describing from Trump is an iteration of the same message we have been hearing from him for nearly a decade now, since he began running for president, why does he keep returning to this theme around immigration? Because it works for him. This is the issue where he has the biggest advantage over Kamala Harris.

When he announced for president in 2015, he rode down the Golden Escalator at Trump Tower, and he talked about how Mexicans were sending criminals and rapists over the border. This is the essence of Trumpism, xenophobia. Mara, I want to ask you a follow-up there, though. You say it works for him, and it certainly did in 2016, but he lost the election in 2020 running on similar themes. Right. Well, the Trump campaign's theory of the case is that this year is going to be a lot more like 2016. He has to goose his white non-college base to turn out. We've also seen that he's made some inroads with African-American men and Hispanic men. It's kind of like what people call the cable news business model. You don't

have to have a big audience. You just have to have the ones that you do have watching you 24-7. In other words, he's not interested in expanding his base. You can see that from the convention speech onward. It's just about energizing the people that he already has and finding more of them, more white non-college voters to turn out. And the campaign thinks there are plenty of them out there and they respond to this message. I also think it's noteworthy to point out that Trump will be participating in a town hall with Univision next week. Yesterday, the Democratic presidential nominee Kamala Harris participated in a similar town hall. Franco, did you keep an ear on that? I'm curious what caught your attention.

Yeah, I did listen in to that town hall that Harris gave. I mean, I think with the juxtaposition with today and what Trump, the message that Trump is bringing to Aurora or using Aurora to spread to the rest of the country. You know, I found it very interesting when Harris was pressed about her own immigration policies and she really had to walk a fine line. I mean, Democrats are known for their policies of bringing humane immigration policies. But in recent times, in recent months, you know, the Democratic Party, particularly the Biden administration and Harris, have been pushing for a stronger enforcement policy. And that's because of, you know, the things that that Mara was just talking about and the electorate, you know, being concerned about migration and the high numbers that are coming into cities. Now, Harris was asked from a woman whose mother had died as an undocumented immigrant. She asked Vice President Harris, you know, what she could do for

those living in the shadows. She said her mother was unable to get health care because of her legal status. And Harris answered in a sympathetic way, encouraging the woman to think of her mother when she was alive and noting some of the things that they did work on, particularly early on in their administration. Part of the problem is that we do have a broken immigration system, including it being the case that even though when we were elected in 2020, and the first bill we offered Congress, before we did the bipartisan infrastructure bill, before we did the work on gun safety, before we did the work on investing in chips and science, the first bill we offered within hours of taking the oath was a bill to fix the immigration system,

including creating a comprehensive earned pathway to citizenship for hardworking people. And Harris, you know, continued her message talking about the Biden administration's enforcement policy that they have been pushing. Actually, Congress, you know, continued her message talking about the Biden administration's enforcement policy that they have been pushing. Actually, Congress, you know, pressed for a bipartisan plan that many Republicans supported, very conservative Republicans supported. It would have been one of the strongest enforcement policies that Democrats had ever supported. But Trump actually kind of sabotaged it for political purposes. And Harris talked about that. And that's simply interesting because it is such an enforcement-focused policy, which is something Democrats have not pushed for a very long time.

All right. I want to shift gears a bit because there is one other nugget of news that I think we all need to discuss. It really caught my attention. Yesterday, the former president of the United States, Barack Obama, was out on the campaign trail with some candid words. You know, he suggested that some men, particularly black men, might be uncomfortable with Harris because of her gender. And he kind of had a lecture for them. Take a listen. And you're coming up with all kinds of reasons and excuses. I've got a problem with that because part of it makes me think, and I'm speaking to men directly, part of it makes me think that, well, you just aren't feeling the idea of having a woman as president. And you're coming

up with other alternatives and other reasons for that. Mara, what did you make of the comments from the former president? Well, what I made of them was she's not doing as well as Biden did at this point in the race in 2020 with a whole bunch of groups, including black men, and he was addressing them directly. Gender is a hurdle. Race is a hurdle. But there's no doubt about it that polls have shown, including a recent NAACP poll, that Harris has weaknesses among younger black men. One in four black men under 50, according to this poll,

are supporting Trump. The interesting thing for me about race and gender in this campaign is that Harris is not running on her race or gender. And the candidate who is running a very racialized, genderized campaign in terms of his rhetoric is Donald Trump. Talks about Kamala Harris not being really black or says that foreign leaders will treat her like a play toy. And also he talks about bad genes coming into the country. Immigrants are poisoning the blood. I can't think of anything more racial than that.

So this is a hurdle and Obama's trying to help her get over it. Yeah, it's interesting to hear you say, Mara, that, you know, Trump has been speaking about this more explicitly because whether or not Harris is talking about it directly, it seems like it is a hurdle for some voters. And the country has never seen a woman as president, but the country has also never seen a black woman as governor in any state in American history. And so, you know, one thing I've heard from some folks is this idea of it's a hurdle for her in terms of just showing voters that this is possible because they have never seen this in their imagination. They don't have an example of it. That's right. She has to help them imagine a woman as commander-in-chief, a black woman as commander-in-chief. She's tried to do that, first of all,

by not calling any attention to her race or gender. Why should she have to? It's very obvious. But also, in the language she uses about strength, in her convention speech in Chicago, she talked about how she's going to have the most lethal military. She's told people she has a gun. It's a Glock.

And if you come into her house, she's going to shoot you. You know, this is language that we haven't heard from a lot of female politicians, but she's trying to help voters imagine her as commander in chief. And Donald Trump is out there every single day calling her dumb, stupid. He calls attention to her race and gender every single day. And she does not. And related to this, I should point out that next week, the vice president heads to Detroit, where she'll sit down with the radio host Charlamagne Tha God for a town hall. It is a sign to me that, you know, her campaign and she herself knows that they need to reach out more to this constituency of black voters. All right. On that note, Franco, we shall let you go because I know you have got some reporting to take care of. But thank you so much for joining us. Thanks, guys.

All right. Let's take a quick break. And when we return, we'll talk about a group of Republican women that Democrats are trying to win over. This message comes from the podcast Pod Save America. It is here to help with all of the election analysis. Co-hosted by former Obama aides, the show is having honest conversations about the state of this race, and they want you to join. Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform now. I'm Elena Moore. I cover new voters for NPR. That means people who've never voted before, especially young people. Their numbers and power are growing. What issues do they care about? How do they feel? What they say can tell us where this election is headed. My job is to bring their

voices to you. To help support our work, sign up for NPR Plus. Just go to plus.npr.org. And we're back and we're joined now by Sarah McCammon. Hey there, Sarah. Hey, Asma. So you have been reporting on a group that is seeking out Republicans who might campaign and on behalf of the Harris campaign, to woo some of the disaffected Republican voters or conservative-leaning independents, people who might have voted for Trump in the past but don't want to do so again. A lot of these efforts are targeting former Haley supporters and other people who, based on demographic data and all of the voter data that campaigns look at believe may be, you know, former Trump voters, likely Trump voters, but people who are on the fence a little bit. And, you know, part of that has been several high profile Republicans who have spoken out in opposition to Trump. This week, I went to the Philadelphia area for an event with former Congresswoman Liz Cheney, who recently endorsed Harris, and several other

former Trump administration officials who are opposed to Trump, who were talking about, as they describe it, the need to rise above a party and come together to oppose a Trump re-election. So, Sarah, did you meet folks at this event that seem like they might actually vote for Harris? I mean, is this a convincing effective strategy on behalf of Democrats? You know, it's hard to say. I mean, earlier in the primary, I definitely met people who were on the fence about what they would do if it was Biden versus Trump. And, of course, things have changed so much since the primary. But most of the people at the event I attended this week were kind of in many ways it was preaching to the choir. It was a lot of people. I stopped person after person who told me they were actually a Democrat and they were just there to hear former Congresswoman Cheney. views is they say they're trying to build a permission structure for people who may be

thinking about voting for Trump, but thinking about going a different direction. And, you know, I did meet a man named Don Kaiser. He is a lifelong Republican from a couple hours outside of Philadelphia who told me he is all in for Harris. I've been a Republican my entire life. I'm ashamed to say I voted for Trump the last two elections, but I won't be voting for him this year. And I'll tell you why. January 6th is the day that broke the camel's back for me. What was done that day was reprehensible.

And a lot of these efforts, I think, are aimed at people like Kaiser, for whom that moment and Trump's attempts to overturn the results of the 2020 election were a turning point. It's interesting to hear from a man there because so much of this campaign, Sarah, I've heard has been focused on the assumption that there will be a gender divide and an assumption perhaps that there are kind of closeted Republican women who might actually be interested in secretly voting for Harris. Yeah. And, you know, there's always this focus on suburban women as swing voters. And I think this is particularly true when you're talking about the universe of maybe former Trump voters, would-be Trump voters who are persuadable.

In the Philadelphia area this week, I also talked to some organizers who are working on some of these groups. And many of them are, not all, but many of them are focusing specifically on women. Britney Prime leads a group called Women For Us, which is focused, which is laser focused on Republican women that they think are persuadable. And they're spending a lot of time in those key seven states that we always talk about. They're looking at margins of maybe a few hundred thousand people here and there that they think could swing some of these key elections. And what's really interesting, Asma, is, you know, Britney told me that some of the women she talks to don't want to vote for Trump,

but they're afraid to let people close to them know that. Unfortunately, we have had women tell us that they prefer to not vote early by mail because that means that their ballot is in their home where someone can see how they have voted and they want to be, quote unquote, behind the curtain and do it in the privacy of their ballot box. Mara, I want to understand from you how realistic you think this strategy is and how really persuadable some of these voters may be. I mean, I hear some of what Sarah's saying,

and it reminds me of some of the campaign strategy I heard I mean, I hear some of what Sarah's saying, and it reminds me of some of the campaign strategy I heard around the Clinton campaign in 2016. Well, I think that there is a much larger universe of Haley voters than there is a universe of Haley voters who are going to turn around and vote for Harris. Most Nikki Haley voters are going to vote Republican because they are Republicans. And don't forget, a lot of Harris voters were Democrats who registered as Republicans just to vote in Republican primaries. But I think that in a race that's this close,

that's going to be decided by tens of thousands of votes in a couple of states, you know, everything matters. So I think it's worthy to try to get every possible Republican who doesn't like Trump, and we know there are plenty of them, to vote for Harris. There's going to be a whole other group that is just going to stay home and not vote. And, you know, that doesn't do Harris any good. But, you know, I think they're not wrong to try. I just think it's a very small universe. And that's exactly what they're saying. You know, Brittany told me they're looking at something like 100,000 women in Pennsylvania, 150,000 in Georgia, 150,000 in North Carolina. Not to say that's the whole universe of people they're

trying to reach, but I think that's the people they're really focused on. And if they can move a small percentage of that in a really close election, it could make a difference. All right. Well, let's take a quick break. And when we get back, it's time for Can't Let It Go. And we're back. And it's time now to end our show like we do every week with Can't Let It Go. That's the part of the show where we talk about the things that we just cannot stop thinking about, politics or otherwise. And Mara, why don't you kick things off for us? Well, I have a hurricane-related Can't Let It Go. It's about Waffle House, which is the famous 24-7, 365 days a year breakfast place. And it turns out that the Waffle House is a really good indicator of how significantly a storm has affected a community. Because it or not on their social media

waffle house has a color-coded map of all of its restaurants and it tells you green means that location is serving a full menu yellow means the restaurant is serving a limited menu that could be a signal that it's using generator power red means that the location is closed. That means that the neighborhood that that Waffle House is in has a lot of damage and maybe you shouldn't go there. What I found so interesting about this is this storm-coated maps was invented by Craig Fugate, who was a former FEMA administrator. He says he thought up the Waffle House Index when he was the Florida emergency management leader in 2004. Then he went to work for FEMA under Barack Obama, and he continued it. So Waffle House is performing an incredible public service, not just for being a warm, dry place for people to get a waffle,

but also for telling people how hard hit certain regions are as they are either inundated with hurricane water or recovering from storm damage. I love that. An essential part of especially a lot of smaller communities, especially in the South. Such a heartwarming story. When you started off with Hurricane Mara, I was a little concerned where that story was going to go. But thank you for that. All right, Sarah, what about you? Okay.

Mine comes from my hometown of Kansas City. And this one I kind of empathize with because I think as broadcasters, we all know what it's like to have an off day. And apparently, Bob Costas had one this week when he was calling the Kansas City, New York baseball game. This is sort of all of our social media. He was talking about kind of random stuff like Mark Twain quotes and six degrees of separation and other random stuff. And I said to him, you know, that game, that movie game, Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon, how supposedly you can connect anybody who's ever been in the film business to Kevin Bacon in six moves or less. I said, you won't even need six moves to connect Aaron

Boone to almost everybody, certainly since the midpoint of the 20th century. So, you know, honestly, I kind of appreciate the random references, because if I ever somehow suddenly was drafted into becoming a sports commentator, I would absolutely be talking about not sports and making really bad calls. But, you know, I do feel for Bob because, like I said, we've all had an off day. But I understand because he's like a legendary sports broadcaster. What happened? I don't know. What about you, Asma? Okay, so I'm going to stick with the theme of sports. I think you all know I'm a big tennis player. I loved, well, I should say in the past when I had more time. I used to play a lot of tennis. And I saw news this week that Wimbledon, a very famous tennis tournament in England, is going to be getting rid of its line judges, which just feels like, I know it's like a small little nugget of news, probably for folks who don't follow tennis, but Wimbledon is this historic, old, like,

stodgy, a bit traditional tennis tournament, right? I mean, they play on grass. That's how, like, old and traditional they are. And after 147 years, they're going to get rid and replace line judges with electronic technology, which just feels... So I don't know exactly how the system works, but it's like an automated system. But to me, Sarah, it's like part of the tradition of tennis and watching these tournaments is like seeing how people rage when they think a bad call is made, right? Like John McEnroe getting angry at someone to break their, I mean, there's all this emotion in it. And you can't really rage at a machine.

No, it's not as fun to rage against the literal machine. It's not. Anyhow, so that's what I've got. An end of an era. Okay, referring back to my last item, what is a line judge? Do they stand there on the lines? Oh, yes, and they call it, and they'll be like, your ball is out, your ball is in. Yes.

My education continues. All right, well, that is a line judge? Do they stand there on the lines? Oh, yes, and they call it, and they'll be like, your ball is out, your ball is in. Yes. My education continues. All right, well, that is a wrap for this week. Our executive producer is Muthoni Mutturi. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our producers are Jung Yoon Han, Casey Murrell, and Kelly Wessinger. Special thanks to Roberta Rampton. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover the campaign.

And I'm Mara Liason, senior national political correspondent. And thank you all, as always, for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.