The NPR Politics Podcast - Roundup: Congress Still Stalled, Republicans Can't Agree On Leader

Episode Date: October 14, 2023

With a massive humanitarian crisis in Israel and Gaza, dwindling funds for Ukraine and a rapidly approaching budget deadline, Republicans selected Jim Jordan as their latest nominee for speaker — though, with a number of Republicans still openly opposing him, he still needs to work to get to the 217 vote threshold.This episode: White House correspondent Tamara Keith, political correspondent Susan Davis, and senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro.The podcast is produced by Casey Morell and Elena Moore. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.Unlock access to this and other bonus content by supporting The NPR Politics Podcast+. Sign up via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Carl from Boston, along with my guiding eyes, Dog Merrick, who has been my navigator and best friend for the last eight and a half years. He has guided me all over Europe, the United States, and in particular, my hometown of Boston. We are getting ready to take my last commute to work as I am going to retire him today from working. This podcast was recorded at 5.29 p.m. on Friday the 13th of October. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but I will be taking a long way home tonight. Here's the show. Man, it's been a long week,

and I feel very emotionally touched by that time stamp right now. That's so sweet. I have a friend who had to retire his seeing eye dog and it was like a really, really tough thing. It was very emotional. Yeah. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And we are here with you late today because we were waiting to see if House Republicans could settle on a new speaker. And well, there's been plenty of action, plenty of drama, but there is still no elected speaker of the House. Last night, Louisiana Republican Steve Scalise, who had been chosen by his conference, dropped out. A new man rose up. That man is Jim Jordan. Sue, where are we? It's been a bit of a roller coaster the past 24 hours, and Republicans are

now heading into the weekend still with no speaker and still no clear plan out of this. As you noted, Steve Scalise dropped out of the race last night. This morning, Republicans met behind closed doors and decided that they would move forward again with a second round of nominating and votes to find a speaker nominee. Jim Jordan, the judiciary chairman who challenged Steve Scalise in that first election and lost, immediately declared today that he would run again. He was for a bit, you know, about maybe about an hour, the only candidate in the race. And before Republicans went in to vote, another lawmaker, a guy by the name of Austin Scott, a Republican from Georgia, announced that he would challenge Jordan. And they went in and they had nominating meetings, and then they had a secret ballot. And Jim Jordan, surprisingly, didn't do all that well on a secret ballot against Scott, who literally was in this race for like six minutes. Jordan got 124 votes. Scott got

81. In his race against Scalise, Jordan had 99 votes. So even after all that drama, not a significant gain. Republicans then went and had a second ballot where the question was merely, would you support Jim Jordan on the floor? That was also a secret ballot. And he upped his numbers. He got 152 votes of support. But 55 Republicans are still at least on a secret ballot saying they will not vote for him for Speaker. The remarkable thing with Austin Scott is many of us did not really know who he was before he decided to run for Speaker. And he didn't seem to necessarily even really want to be Speaker as much as he was just like there as a vessel, as an alternative to Jim Jordan. Yeah, he was really just a proxy vote for people that didn't want to vote for Jordan.

And he had voiced a lot of frustration, not specifically necessarily about Jim Jordan, but about this entire process, about how Kevin McCarthy was removed, about the fact that Republicans didn't rally around Scalise, and even that Jordan was going to try to do it, you know, unchallenged today. So it was really more of a protest run. He was pretty clear he doesn't actually want to be speaker. He just didn't want Jim Jordan to go unchallenged. But look, like at the end of this meeting, they told members to go home and that the next step is Republicans will meet again in the Capitol on Monday. And they're still trying to find a path forward. I had a lot of conversations with Republicans coming out of that meeting, you know, talk to some Jim Jordan allies like Clay Higgins, who say they think he can get there and, you know, talk to other members like Vern Buchanan,

who are like, look, he's just not going to be able to get the 217. And if Jim Jordan can't do it, I can't tell you who it's going to be. Yeah, it's really interesting how the dynamics on Capitol Hill have shifted, you know, just thinking back to the Tea Party and thinking to when, you know, John Boehner was the Speaker of the House. And Jim Jordan is somebody who John Boehner called a political terrorist. You know, this was somebody who was the hard right before Matt Gates defined the hard right of this era. He's a founder of the Freedom Caucus. Yeah, I mean, he was Matt Gaetz before Matt Gaetz became so Matt Gaetz, right?

The Florida congressman who essentially torpedoed Kevin McCarthy out of being Speaker of the House. And this is where the power center now is in the Republican Party. Well, I do think that Jordan has gone from playing the outside game to playing a little bit more of an inside game. Sure. He's got a seat at the table now. Absolutely. You know, he not only does he have the friendship and he was an ally of Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who was removed, but he's a close ally of Donald Trump. He's the committee chairman of the Judiciary Committee. He's leading the impeachment inquiry against President Joe Biden. I mean, he is he has gone from outsider to mainstream party elder. There are multiple problems for Jim Jordan. One, his record is

mostly as a hard right based conservative. And if you are a moderate lawmaker or a Republican in a swing seat, you might be looking at him with a bit of a side eye, like this guy is not going to help me or understand my politics or my districts. He also doesn't have much of a record of actually enacting legislation. You know, I can't even really point to you any legislative victories Jim Jordan has had in his career here. I can point to a lot of things he helped derail, you know, a lot of spending bills, a lot of government shutdowns that he played a role in trying to be like the combative right. But he's not really someone who can build consensus across the aisle. And maybe a lot of Republicans wouldn't say that on the record, but a lot of them are looking forward and it's like, look, they still have to do spending bills. Like there's still a

lot of things you have to do that require you to work with Democrats. And Jim Jordan doesn't really have a track record of all, not to say he can't, but there's not a lot of track record he can point to. I also think that Jordan has a choice to make now. I talked to Jody Arrington. He's the chairman of the Budget Committee. And, you know, I said it seems pretty clear that no one's going to be able to get to 217, which is the magic number on the House floor if all members are voting on the first ballot. Like it still seems like some Republicans are going to have to fight it out on the floor. And Jordan is going to have to make a decision over whether he wants to take this to the floor and see if he can win it there. And the argument that Jordan supporters will say is that it would be very hard to publicly cast a vote against Jim Jordan because he is a uniquely popular figure among the conservative base in a way that Steve Scalise was not.

And also that Donald Trump has endorsed him for speaker and that Trump would be watching that vote and be able to bring some pressure to bear on Republican holdouts. But that's a tough way to get your get for your path into the speakership to be seen as sort of trying to publicly strong arm or bully people into it. You know, speakers is a consensus job, as I said, and it's a decision he's going to have to make. But you know, if he's within striking distance, sure, can you can you flip a couple of votes on the House floor? But do Republicans really want to go through another pretty brutal battle? I don't know the answer to that. Republicans didn't know the answer to that coming out of there. I think they're very frustrated and nobody has any idea

how this will be resolved. All right. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be back in a second. It's the start of a new term at the Supreme Court. For our legal affairs correspondent, Nina Totenberg, it's kind of like opening day. So I drown myself in legal briefs. I read and read and read. Go behind the scenes with Nina as she prepares for a new term. But in July, after the battalion of important cases come thundering down. I'll tell you what I did this year, and I do it a lot of years. You ready for this?

I'm ready. That's in our most recent episode for NPR Politics Plus supporters. And we're back. And in Gaza, there is no electricity, food and water are not getting in. And Thursday night, Israel warned the million residents of the northern part of Gaza to evacuate ahead of an anticipated ground operation. The United Nations says moving all those people is impossible and warns there could be devastating humanitarian consequences. As far as the U.S. role here, President Biden continues to express steadfast support for Israel. Today, though, he also advocated for humanitarian support to get to Gaza. We can't lose sight of the fact that the

overwhelming majority of Palestinians had nothing to do with Hamas and Hamas' appalling attacks. And they're suffering as a result as well. Domenico, let's talk about the politics of all this. We've gotten results from a new NPR PBS NewsHour Marist poll that was conducted after the attacks on Israel last weekend. And what did you find? Well, overall, about two thirds of people say that they want the U.S. government to show strong support publicly for Israel in their war against Hamas. There were some pretty big divides, though, when you look by age and by race. For people who are over 45 years old, 78 percent said that they wanted a strong public show of support from the United States. But for those under 45, it was only 48%, a big 30-point drop in that case. When it came to race, whites, 72% said that they want a strong show of support for Israel, but only 51% of non-whites

said so. So this is something we've sort of seen as a trend over time, where the Democratic Party, for example, according to Gallup this year, has for the first time been more sympathetic toward Palestinians in this long tension with Israel and Palestinians. But we have to realize that this is also not just about Palestinians. It's a totally different situation because you have Hamas, a terrorist organization that had perpetrated these heinous attacks that Israel is now going to war with and trying to unravel Hamas operatives and activists who are really entangled with the Palestinian population in Gaza. So President Biden, as we said, has been, he's come out very strongly in support of Israel. Is he seeing any sort of an approval rating bump from that? Nope. Not yet, anyway. You know, the thing is, our partisanship is just like this

massive shield, and it's not being pierced right now at all, even in this situation, at least not yet. You know, I mean, this news sort of has to – it takes a while sometimes for it to trickle down for people to really formulate their thoughts on this. But 52 percent of people said that they disapprove of Biden's handling of this situation. That also reflects exactly the disapproval rating for Biden's job overall. So when you think about that, even though two-thirds of people are saying that they want a strong show of support for Israel, the people who are saying that who are Republicans or Republican-leaning independents who don't like the job Biden's doing overall just at this point don't seem ready to be able to say that they also approve of how Biden's talking about

the situation with Israel and Hamas. Sue, the White House was up on Capitol Hill today briefing key congressional leaders about what they say is the gravity of the situation in Israel and also with Ukraine's ongoing war to defend itself against Russia. And they are planning next week to send up a new emergency funding request. Spokesman John Kirby said that they're basically running out of time to get that military assistance to U.S. allies. But how well is that likely to be received on the Hill where there is not a speaker? Well, it's complicated. There's already a division among lawmakers over the idea of whether you should couple aid to Ukraine with aid to Israel or keep

it as a standalone measure. Obviously, it is immediately going to be met with a problem of not having a speaker of the House. The House cannot move anything until they resolve the speaker impasse. And we don't know when it will end. So the urgency gets the urgency intensifies, especially as the Senate returns next week. The other problem is that I think it's fair to say that a support aid package for Israel could probably pass very fast and with a lot of bipartisan support. But I imagine that the White House and party leaders, because it's so popular, may see an interest in trying to tack on things like Ukraine aid or border money, things that some House Republican lawmakers have suggested to get it through. I can't imagine they get it done next week. That just doesn't seem politically possible.

But there's other legislation that Congress is looking at as well about this that they're tied up about. House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Michael McCaul has a resolution. It's bipartisan condemning Hamas for the attack. That's also something that Congress generally likes to go on the record with and very quickly after events like this. And they're also seeming capable of moving. And he's been really candid that the speaker impasse at this moment looks very bad on the world stage. You know, democracies are being tested. U.S. alliances are being tested.

And a U.S. government that cannot resolve itself is a bad message to send to the world. But I do think the McCalls are hoping that the urgency of the situation will sort of incentivize Republicans to figure it out. But I have to say, I thought that all this week and the weekends, and it has not been resolved. The political dysfunction that the House Republicans have created has paralyzed Congress while really bigger, literally life or death problems are happening overseas. And it just strikes me that it's emblematic of the chaos that the US system has really devolved into over the last several years that we've heard about over and over again abroad from allies, thinking that this is a big problem in the United States. They've pinpointed this, and it's really been a shift away from when the United States was really seen as the moral leader

in the world after World War II. It's really striking. So I think we're going to take a quick break. And when we get back, it is time for Can't Let It Go. And we are back. And it is time to end the show like we do every week with Can't Let It Go, where we talk about the things that we just cannot let go of, politics or otherwise. And I think we could use a little joy this week. So Sue, what can't you let go of? I don't know if I can bring joy, but I can bring weird. Okay. Because weird has just been the theme of this week. We're already sort of through the looking glass with speaker politics and how this might play out. And I would say the person who acts like everything is normal is George Santos, the Republican lawmaker from New York. And I admit that I have been somewhat amused by his business-as-usual attitude. You

know, he attends all of these conference meetings. He talks to reporters. He's weighing in on the speaker's race. Meanwhile, his fellow Republican lawmakers are saying that they might try to expel him from the House. People don't want to talk to him. It's like he's the guy that doesn't get that everybody wants him to leave the party and he just keeps showing up. And it was just this sort of cherry on top of a very, very weird cake. He's facing what, like two dozen felony counts on. Yeah, he got problems. He's got real problems.

Credit card fraud and law. But I can tell you this. He walks those halls like not a care in the world. Dominica, what can't you let go of? You know, let me just ask you guys this. I think this is not a trick question. Mississippi, red or blue state? Red. Red. Red. Red. So if you want to be elected governor of Mississippi, you're probably going to have to have some Republicans vote for you, right? Seems reasonable if you're a Democrat. Well, the Democrat who's running for governor is a man named Brandon

Presley. He released an ad this week that really stood out to me. Now, you know, at first it stood out because of how he had all these Republicans in the ad. I'm a Republican. I'm a former Republican congressman from the state of Mississippi, and I'm supporting Brandon Presley. He comes back to him and he says, and I have three words for you. Let's go, Brandon. Rebranding, trying to rebrand. I get what he's doing there.

I got to say, when I'm in the motorcade following the president, a lot of Let's Go Brandon banners out there. It's all for Brandon Presley, obviously. Yeah, clearly, clearly. Tim, what about you? What can you let go of? So, as you might remember, leading into the possible government shutdown that didn't actually happen because they passed a short-term spending bill that, oh gosh, is going to run out again in just about a month. There was great concern that if the government had shut down, it would cancel Fat Bear Week. Oh no. Right? Well, Fat Bear Week did not get canceled. Fat Bear Week went on and there is now a crowned champion fat bear, and her name is Grazer, bear number 128.

She is a fierce mother and expert angler. I'm looking at a picture. She's beautiful. In the Instagram announcing this, heavy is the rump that wears the crown. Has anyone considered nominating this bear for Speaker of the House? Because maybe she could win it. We could have a female, another female Speaker of the House. You did get 108,000 votes. I think that's more than you need for Speaker. Let's leave it there for today. Our executive producer is Mathani Mathuri. Our editor is Eric

McDaniel. Our producers are Elena Moore and Casey Morrell. Thanks to Krishna Dev Kalimer and Lexi Schapittle. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics. And I'm Domenica Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.