The NPR Politics Podcast - Roundup: Harris Pitches Hope; Trump's Military Cemetery Feud

Episode Date: August 30, 2024

In her first major interview of her presidential campaign, Vice President Harris pitched policy continuity with an attitude shift. She wants to continue the policies of the Biden administration while drawing a more optimistic contrast with the Trump campaign.And NPR's reporting on a physical altercation between Trump campaign workers and Arlington National Cemetery staff caused a controversy that has continued to escalate. The military prohibits political activity at the cemetery but the Trump campaign has doubled down and say they were invited there by the families. Correction Aug. 30, 2024:In a previous version of the audio for this episode, two phrases were spliced together in a way that suggested the veterans' organization Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) called Donald Trump's remarks related to a confrontation at Arlington National Cemetery "asinine." In fact, the VFW described Trump's previous remarks, in which he described the Presidential Medal of Freedom as superior to the Medal of Honor, asinine. Listen to every episode of the NPR Politics Podcast sponsor-free, unlock access to bonus episodes with more from the NPR Politics team, and support public media when you sign up for The NPR Politics Podcast+ at plus.npr.org/politics.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Autograph Collection Hotels, with over 300 independent hotels around the world, each exactly like nothing else. Autograph Collection is part of the Marriott Bonvoy portfolio of hotel brands. Find the unforgettable at AutographCollection.com. Hi, this is Lydia. And this is Gio. We're at the airport in Washington, D.C., about to fly to Tallahassee to celebrate my grandfather's 100th birthday. Happy birthday, Boompa!

This podcast was recorded at 12.39 p.m. on Friday, August 30, 2024. Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but we'll still be celebrating. Okay, here's the show. That's so cute. My grandfather's also turning 100 this year. Wow, that is amazing. I know, it's really exciting. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Deepa Shibaram. I cover the White House. I'm Tamara Keith. I also cover the White House.

I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover the campaign. So we've made it to Friday. And today on the show, some more details about Vice President Harris' swing through Georgia yesterday and the sit-down interview she did while there. Tam, you were on that trip, so we'll get to you with the latest there and the latest on how Trump is talking about fertility care and abortion. But Tam, let's start with the Harris swing through Georgia. This was a trip that got postponed, right, because of bad weather a few weeks ago. And in this really truncated campaign, a few weeks feels like several lifetimes. So remind us what happened this week on this swing. What was the message Harris was trying to focus on? So she was campaigning with her running mate, Tim Walls.

It was a bus tour of a part of Georgia that Democrats don't often visit. In fact, it is the first time since the 1990s that a nominee has actually campaigned in Savannah, Georgia. Most of the votes in Georgia, Democratic votes, come from the Atlanta metro area. But what they were trying to do just by being in a different market was to say, hey, we are fighting for every single vote. They're trying to increase enthusiasm among voters in parts of the state that are not as Democratic, though Savannah is obviously pretty blue. You know, it is. And I, you know, I lived there for a couple of years in my pre-NPR life. And there's a lot of activism in that area. It is, you know, in a close election, which this is likely to be, and especially in a place like Georgia, where Democrats really have to pull out all the stops

if they have any hope of winning. You know, I can see why they would employ the strategy of going to a place like coastal Georgia and trying to go after every last vote. Yeah. And the thing about this swing also was that it was important for a lot of reasons. But one is that Harris sat down for her first interview since becoming the Democratic nominee. She did an interview with CNN's Dana Bash. And, Tam, one thing that kind of stood out to me is that she sort of is making this message of turning the page. started about a decade ago, where there is some suggestion, warped, I believe it to be, that the measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you beat down, instead of where I believe most Americans are, which is to believe that the true measure of

the strength of a leader is based on who you lift up. That's what's at stake as much as any other detail that we could discuss in this election. What did you make of the interview that she did? So the thing that stood out to me from the interview there, you know, it was it was an interview where she was pressed on a lot of things that that the Trump campaign has said she's been getting away with, including changes in her position on fracking, from what she said when she was running in 2019 to what she says now. She now says that she supports some fracking on the border, all of these things. Her positions have moderated since entering the White House, but she's not trying to put separation between herself and President Biden, which is in some ways sort of surprising,

because if you are running for president and you're a vice president, it's always hard to run on more of the same. And that's not what she's running on. Policy-wise, she is running on more of the same. But her message is that the American people are looking for a new way forward. Yeah, it is really interesting because she is, as we've talked about on the podcast before, running as this change candidate. But it's like, but we're not going to change too much here. Like the policies on the border are going to be the same that Democrats put forward in their bipartisan bill that never made it through because, you know, Donald Trump intervened there and and, you know, the same on

Israel and Gaza. Like she's really not like flipping the script entirely, but she is trying to still use different words, talk about the future, talk about forward, things like that. Tam, do you feel like in what you've seen so far, is it a strategy that's that's working as Harris, you know, clearly here is trying to cobble more of these middle ground voters. Certainly she has gotten endorsements from a large number of, you know, Republicans for Harris. She is running a campaign that is joyful and that is different. You know, I went to on various stops with her at restaurants and things like that. And people are like parroting back her campaign themes to her as they're talking to her.

At one point, she was talking to a woman at an event and the woman starts talking about her daughter and Harris is like, let's get her on the phone. And next thing you know, it's like, hi, Madison, this is Kamala. So she is running, you know, she is running this campaign that, you know, that is just seeking to be different from both the campaign that Biden was running and certainly the campaign that Trump is running, a more positive, forward-looking. Sure, there are lots of contrasts that she makes with Trump, but she's not dwelling on him. Well, speaking of Trump, Sarah, I mean, he was also making news on the campaign trail this week. Different direction here, talking about fertility and abortion care.

What has Trump been saying? You know, Republicans have been well aware since the Dobbs decision that overturned Roe v. Wade just over two years ago. They've been well aware that abortion is a liability for them. Democrats see it as an opportunity. It's been a big part of their message that they would fight to protect reproductive rights. And so Trump has been making a series of statements in recent months that have, I think, concerned some in the anti-abortion rights movement. But some of his statements this week are, I think, the most significant.

He did an interview with NBC News in which he commented both on abortion and the fertility procedure known as IVF, which involves the discarding of embryos, is also somewhat controversial and opposed by some in the anti-abortion movement. I want to start with what he said about IVF. He was asked for his position on that issue, and he actually said that he would support a government mandate for insurance coverage of the procedure or government funding for it. We are going to be paying for that treatment. So we are paying for that treatment. All Americans who want it? All Americans that get it. All Americans that need it. So we're going to be paying for that treatment or we're going to be mandating that the insurance company pay. So either either the government will pay for it or the insurance companies under a mandate.

Yes, Sarah, that is amazing because that is a dramatic expansion. That would be such a dramatic expansion of the Affordable Care Act of Obamacare, the thing that Trump says he wants to repeal. And let's remember when Trump was in office, he sided with some of the socially conservative groups and activists who opposed the mandate, at least to a degree. His administration allowed for some carve outs for religious and moral objections to the contraceptive mandate. And, you know, there was a fight in the courts about that. So this is a complete reversal of that theory. But Sarah, I mean, Trump has a pattern here, as we all know, of saying one thing and then kind of going back on it later. Abortion and reproductive rights certainly falls into that category. So, I mean, is this something you expect him to hold firm on? And do you think it would actually change a potential, you know, Trump presidency part two,

like how he would actually govern here. Well, Democrats are certainly pushing back on the idea that Trump would do any of this. Democrats have noted that the new Republican platform adopted this year has language about the 14th Amendment, which suggests that embryos have constitutional rights. And they argue that kind of language, if applied to the law, could raise real questions about abortion, contraception, and IVF. agency officials in some of the key agencies that have to do with regulation of health care, like the FDA, HHS, even the Department of Justice, of course, which has broader authority, who would oppose abortion rights, who would use federal law to the extent that they could to, you know, restrict abortion pills, restrict access to abortion. You know, with Trump, it's always a question, right?

What's messaging? What is going to turn into policy? I don't think we really can say. Interestingly, you know, his campaign has been pushing back a little bit on his own comments. In the NBC interview the other day, he also seemed to suggest that he might be open to voting for an abortion rights amendment in Florida, where he's a resident. And he said that he thinks that a six-week abortion ban that the state currently has is too restrictive. It has to be more time. And so that's, and I've told them that I want more weeks. The campaign quickly clarified and released a statement saying that it's, you know, he hadn't decided how he would vote, essentially. But these kinds of comments are very much off message when it comes to the

anti-abortion movement. All right, we're going to take a quick break and more in a moment. Sarah, don't go too far. We're going to bring you back for Can't Let It Go. And we're back with NPR's Quill Lawrence. Hey, Quill. Hello. So you and Tom Bowman, our colleague, broke a story this week that's getting a lot of traction. There was an altercation between the Trump campaign staff and Army staff during a visit at Arlington National Cemetery this week. A lot to get into, but I want to start with this. Why was Trump there and what happened? Yeah, so Gold Star families invited former President Trump to a wreath-laying ceremony at the Tomb of the Unknown and to visit the graves of their loved ones.

But rules that were negotiated in advance made very clear that, first of all, there's no campaigning of any kind allowed at Arlington. That's accordance for their rules and federal law. And also they made clear that no outside photographer or videographer could go to Section 60, that only Arlington cemetery staff could do that. And so when they started to move into Section 60, where most of the Iraq and Afghanistan casualties are buried, and the Arlington official tried to remind the Trump campaign that they couldn't go in there, that the photographers can go in there. That employee was verbally abused and then was pushed aside. And you mentioned Section 60. Can you just walk me through what that is specifically? Yeah. So, I mean, this is all these recent casualties. These are just rows and rows of people who are never growing old, you know.

And they've got moms and dads who are still alive and visit, and they've got young kids, or kids who are getting older without them, and young widowed wives and husbands. And they go in there, and it's my colleague Tom Bowman, who we should say also did this story, you know, he describes it as like an ongoing Irish wake. Because people put flowers and they put teddy bears,

and people come in and they pour out a beer and a shot and it's always riding on the line of decorum. But Arlington officials deal with this with grace and diplomacy all the time. And they deal with 3,000 ceremonies a year and foreign tourists come in there. They know how to finesse this stuff and keep it solemn. And vets have been commenting to me this week, just kind of, wow, if you find yourself arguing with someone, with an Arlington National Cemetery staffer, you should stop and think that maybe something is going terribly, terribly wrong. Trump was there in large part to mark the three-year anniversary of the bombing at Abbey Gate as the U.S. was pulling out of Afghanistan. He blames President Biden and now Vice President Harris for those

deaths. He has grown very close, as I understand it, with some of these families who lost loved ones in that attack. Some of the families were very critical of President Biden when he met with them or tried to talk to them after that attack. So this is raw politically, too. And I think before we even knew the incident had happened, right, Quill, the Trump campaign put out photos and later a video of Trump posing with some of these family members by the headstones. And in one of these photos, he has a thumbs up, which is like a thing Trump does. Yeah, and those families are still very supportive. They have been vocal, and the Trump campaign

has posted statements in support of this visit and said that they wanted him there. Okay, so speaking of the campaign, then, how is the Trump campaign responding to the aftermath of this altercation? I mean, that is kind of the central point in all of this. Right, well, at first they denied anything like this took place to us. But they also said that some unidentified person had,

and they were insulting this person, saying, oh, she was clearly having a mental health episode. And later a Trump campaign official called her despicable. But they put out a campaign ad from that visit, which is illegal to use the cemetery grounds for politics. One of the other politicians who was there is Utah Governor Spencer Cox. And he's apologized for his campaign using this photo. But the Trump campaign in the past that showed then Vice

President Biden a picture when he was VP in the Arlington Cemetery. But also Chris LaCivita from the Trump campaign has reposted one of these photos and tagged the army secretary. And he's basically trolling the army. And what has the army said in response to that? Well, first Arlington and then the army basically confirmed the facts of our story. But they also said, the Army in statement also said, after saying that it was unfortunate that Arlington staffer was being insulted, they said that they considered the matter closed because that staffer has not pressed charges, which maybe means there won't be any consequences. I think the Army does want this to go away very badly. I mean, there's so many elements of all of this. One, that it even happened in the first place, which is so bizarre, I have to say. And then two, that it's becoming so political. There wasn't an

apology. There could have been, I assume, like a possible easier route to just kind of put this all away much quicker. And the Trump campaign seems to be doing the opposite. Tam, why do you think that is? Well, it's very on brand. The Trump campaign doesn't apologize. Donald Trump doesn't apologize. That's not a thing they do. And they clearly feel that they were in the right to be there. They were invited. They could do what they wanted to do. And the thing is, this isn't the first time that Trump has had a run in with veterans groups. He recently described the Medal of Freedom, which is given to civilians by the president, as somehow better than the Medal of Honor,

which is the highest military honor. And many of the people who are awarded the medal are buried there in Arlington. They made the ultimate sacrifice for their country and for their fellow troops. And it was seen as really offensive because people who get the Medal of Honor are really just held up at the highest level in this country as heroes to the nation. Of course, that also follows his former chief of staff, John Kelly, confirming that Trump had described World War I veterans as suckers and losers. All right. We're going to take a quick break. Quill, thank you so much for bringing your reporting to the pod. My pleasure. When we get back, it's time for Can't Let It Go. And we are back with Sarah McCammon once again. Hey, Sarah. Hey there. And it's time for Can't Let It Go.

That's the part of the show where we talk about the things from the week that we just can't stop thinking about, politics or otherwise. And, Tam, I'm going to kick it off for you. All right. So what I cannot let go of is when you are following the vice president or the president, you ride in vans. In the motorcade, you're in a van. And this week in Georgia, the van driver that we had was particularly colorful. And when you are in a motorcade, it is like white knuckle driving. Oh, my God. I have so many horror stories.

I buckle up even though one time I got stuck in the van because my headphones got stuck and I couldn't get out. Another horror story. So our driver was particularly colorful. We get on and he's like, welcome to the party bus. And he's playing music and taking like a selfie of himself with everyone in the van. And then it was like we're in a parade. We kept like honking at the people on the side of the road. It was like a lot. And then I get back to the hotel and I'm really tired. And I get this text from Sarah. And she's like, hey, were you on like a tour of Savannah today? I'm like, uh, sort of. I was in the motorcade with Vice President Harris. Turns out Sarah knows this guy and a picture of me showed up in his social media. Is that what happened, Sarah?

I'm just cracking up because Savannah, I love Savannah. And Savannah is such a small world and a quirky, wild place. And I always love it. And yeah, of course, I knew your driver. That's so funny. He's a friend. Yeah. I mean, the drivers are always just sort of random people. They are. Mostly volunteers, which is really cool that they get to help out. But you run the gamut on like who your driver is.

Like you could get a 18-year-old college kid who has probably never driven a van in their life, or you could get like an almost retired person. Like you really don't know whose car you're getting into. Yep. So Deepa, what can't you let go of? Okay. Oh, man. Well, I am kind of pivoting here in a non-politics direction, but something I'm equally fired

up about, which is that Keith Lee, who is a former MMA fighter and a TikTok celebrity, if you will, does a lot of food reviews and restaurant reviews. He came to D.C. It was a highly anticipated visit, but it kind of started a lot of drama, you could say, because the restaurants that he picked to go to, everyone was kind of like, whose advice did you take on where to eat in D.C.? And there's so many great spots in D.C., some also not great spots, to be clear. D.C., a notoriously insecure food town. Oh, my gosh. We really are.

We have such a chip on our shoulder. And, like, I feel like I had to bring this up as my can't let it go because I will simply fight with anyone who, like, hates on D.C.'s food scene. Like, I think it's such a great food city. And I agree. I was just kind of, like, looking at all the coverage of it and like catching up in the last day or two. And, you know, not everything is for everyone. And I feel like he just stirred up a lot of questions and a lot of people's hot takes,

if you will. But I also kind of loved it because I feel like it gave people a chance to be like, well, here's where Keith Lee should have visited and like everyone sharing their favorite spots to eat in DC. So all of that to say, that was what I couldn't let go of this week. Sarah, how about you? I love this story that I'm about to share because like, have we all, I'm sure so often have these, I told you so moments, like you have an opinion about something, but you, you can't share it or you don't share it. Well, this is a story about someone who shared an opinion from the grave. At the London National Gallery, there's some renovation going on. And apparently back in 1990, when some other renovation was going on, one of the donors to the gallery, to that work, wasn't happy with the direction of some of the architecture.

Apparently there were these sort of false columns, which in a picture I saw are like these sort of boxy square support columns that aren't actually needed architecturally. But they were put in the Sainsbury wing, which was paid for by Mr. John Sainsbury and his family. And apparently, Mr. John Sainsbury was not a fan of the design as was discovered when they were ripping down these columns recently and they found a letter from 1990 which I just want to read an excerpt from says if you've found this note you must be engaged in demolishing one of the false columns that have been placed in the foyer of Sainsbury wing of the National Gallery I believe that the false columns are a mistake of the architect and that we would live to regret our accepting this detail of his design. And then he congratulates the

current generation. Wow. Some things fall apart so other things can come together. You know what I mean? Isn't it true? And he passed away two years ago. So he didn't live to see it, but he knew. You guys, he knew. That's like legit manifesting. Incredible. He was laughing somewhere. That's awesome. All right, we're going to leave it there for this week. Our executive producer is Mathoni Mathuri. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our producers are Jung Yoon Han, Casey Morell, and Kelly Wessinger. Special thank you to Andrew Sussman. I'm Deepa Shivram. I cover the White House.

I'm Tamara Keith. I also cover the White House. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover the campaign.. I'm Tamara Keith. I also cover the White House. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover the campaign. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.