The NPR Politics Podcast - Roundup: The Final Focus? What Trump Would Do With Power

Episode Date: October 25, 2024

Vice President Harris and former president Donald Trump are focused on the same thing: the unprecedented ways he has promised to use the presidency.Trump's closing message to his supporters is a promise to deport tens of millions of people and prosecute political foes. He is also working to turn out as much of his base as possible, even unlikely voters.Meanwhile, Harris is closing her last weeks on the campaign with a message centered on reproductive rights and a pitch to persuade disaffected Republican-leaning voters. This episode: national political correspondent Sarah McCammon, senior White House correspondent Tamara Keith, campaign correspondent Danielle Kurtzleben, and senior national political correspondent Mara LIasson.The podcast is produced by Jeongyoon Han, Casey Morell and Kelli Wessinger. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.Listen to every episode of the NPR Politics Podcast sponsor-free, unlock access to bonus episodes with more from the NPR Politics team, and support public media when you sign up for The NPR Politics Podcast+ at plus.npr.org/politics.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Kendra from Chicago catching up on all the news I missed after 10 days in Paris and a surprise engagement. This podcast was recorded at 1241 PM Eastern Time on Friday, October 25th, 2024. Things may have changed by the time you hear this. Now I'm off to plan a wedding. Enjoy the show. Nice. Good for you.

We've got a secret proposal earlier. Now we've got this. This is so cool. I always think it's brave of people to propose as a surprise, you know, like there's a little element of doubt. It's kind of bold. I like it. Hey there.

It's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover the campaign. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. I'm Danielle Kurtzleben. I also cover the campaign. And I'm Mara Eliason, senior national political correspondent.

One big happy family. Today on The Roundup, we are headed into the final full week of this campaign. And so we're going to talk about closing messages. What are the closing messages from the candidates? Tam, I'm going to start with you. You've been covering Vice President Kamala Harris. She's made a big play for former backers of Donald Trump and she is relying heavily on some of his former administration officials to make that pitch. What's her strategy and what's

her message? If earlier in the campaign she was in her joyful warrior era, this is the warning against the dangers of a second Trump presidency era of her campaign. And she is, as you say, relying heavily on the voices of former Trump administration officials who have endorsed her or are issuing pretty stern warnings about their views of Trump as a leader, their views that, you know, they saw in the Oval Office and in the Situation Room. In particular, this week, a story came out in the New York Times, an interview with General John Kelly, who was

former President Trump's longest-serving White House Chief of Staff. In that interview, he said that Trump meets the dictionary definition of a fascist, that Trump praised Hitler, said he did some good things, that he wanted generals like Hitler had, and that he didn't understand that the people in the US government have sworn an oath and loyalty to the US Constitution and not to him, the president of the United States. Danielle Pletka So, Tam, what I'm curious about is how is Harris making the argument so it's not so abstract?

You know, Biden ran, oh, Trump is bad for democracy, or people have thrown out the word fascist. I don't know how many Americans really know what that is. But when she plays clips of Trump or she tries to prosecute this argument against Trump, does she talk about specifics? Tamar Chute Conveniently for Harris, I guess, there are a lot of specifics that she can talk about. It isn't like a sweeping historical discussion of democracy at an inflection point. It is very much not the way Biden talked about the

threat of another Trump presidency. She's trying to do two things, which is warn, danger, danger, look at all of these Republicans who worked for him who think he should not be president. He's unstable and would be unrestrained in a second term is what she argues. But then she also is trying to drive another message, which is, hey, America, we could move on from this. So I don't know if this will be persuasive. What I can say is that she is picking a mighty large stage to deliver this message on Tuesday. She will be speaking from the ellipse near the White House. If that sounds familiar, it's because that's where President Trump on January 6th, 2021, delivered his remarks as he tried to cling to power. Then some of his supporters from that rally on what he says was a day. And then some of his supporters from that rally

on what he says was a day of love, some of his supporters went to the Capitol, stormed the Capitol. And this has been a big part of her pitch to these suburban voters, largely female voters that we've been talking about so much, some of whom might've voted for Trump in the past, is this idea that, you know,

not just that Trump is a threat to democracy, but that Trump represents instability. When I cover these efforts, I hear that the thing that especially white suburban women care about the most is the economy. And so you can see how that argument about bringing stability to the country is designed to appeal to some of those swing voters. The interesting thing for me about the target audience of undecided voters, the tiny sliver of voters who are still up for grabs. A lot of them are Republicans, Nikki Haley voters.

They voted for Nikki Haley even after she dropped out of the race. So clearly, they're very Trump reluctant. And we know that in 2016, the undecided voters broke for Trump at the end. And that's historically what we see. The challenger gets the undecideds to break for him at the end because most people have made up their minds about the incumbent. Of course, in this election, it's hard to know who's the incumbent because Harris is also kind of a new and unknown entity. But I think it's possible, and there are some pollsters that think this too, that the undecided voters might break for her this time. Speaking of pollsters, I interviewed Solynda Lake this week. She's a Democratic pollster.

She's now working for an independent Democratic group. What she said is, you know, in focus groups and in polls, the voters that they are going for, this very small sliver of undecided voters, these voters are actually deeply disturbed by January 6th. And many of them have grave concerns about what happened with the Dobbs decision. So they believe that this message will both motivate and persuade. I guess we will find out in not too long whether those voters do break that way. AndONIA DARA G in the audience. And the thing that I think about when you talk about what's Linda Lake just said there is, yes, you do have a lot of these suburban anybody who are very disturbed by January 6th and who say that inflation, the economy is their top issue.

But voters always say the economy to some degree is their top issue, or at least they very often do, right? It doesn't necessarily mean that is what's driving their vote. It just means that, like, yeah, the economy is a big part of your life. It is still possible that January 6th could be the thing that persuades you and sways your vote. All right. Let's take a quick break.

We'll be back in just a moment. And we're back. And now let's talk about Trump's closing message. Danielle, you've been covering the Trump campaign. And in many ways, his closing message is the same message we've heard from Trump all along, isn't it? Danielle Pletka It is, yes. And I think there are two parts of this message. One part is the stuff that makes news. He has been an even looser cannon recently than usual, which is putting

it mildly, whether it's talking about sticking the military on his opponents, whether he's talking about Arnold Palmer's genitalia, whether he's saying that FEMA money has been going to undocumented immigrants, that is not true. There's a new thing, it seems like every day, that he says that is more outrageous than the last. Now, there's all of that as part of his message, but it also often threatens to obscure the rest of his message, which is about inflation, immigration, crime, and just really tying those three things together. And besides that, saying Harris is Biden is Harris, if you dislike one, you should dislike the other. That is the Trump message. And the way that I think about it is a lot of voters care about inflation. That

is a day-to-day concern for many, many Americans. And I was just talking to a Republican strategist before we got on today where he was saying, this is a winning message because that's what Americans care about. And that may well be true. It is also potentially true, however, that the outrageous things overshadow the, quote unquote, kitchen table issues that he talks about. You know, it's so interesting to me about how voters process the extreme things he says or the erratic things he says. And we saw this in Pennsylvania where a number of us were earlier this week. They excuse it or normalize it like, oh, he says he'll use the military, but that's just

being a shock jock. He'll never really do that. Or he's just being sarcastic when he says if he loses, Jews will be to blame. Or he really wouldn't do this or that. It's amazing to me the kind of filter that voters who want to vote for him put his comments through and they come up, instead of just taking the guy at his word, they come up with a whole different interpretation. Danielle Pletka That is absolutely true. And I think if you're come up, instead of just taking the guy at his word, they come up with a whole different interpretation.

SONIA DARA-MARGOLA That is absolutely true. And I think if you're Kamala Harris, that's part of the logic of talking about January 6th and also abortion, not just because those are important issues in and of themselves, not just because abortion affects women's very lives and can be a life or death issue. It's also because, look, whatever you think of however hyperbolic he is, those are real effects over there. Look at those. In some ways, it's a continuation of Biden's strategy four years ago when his strategy was really to sort of be the normal candidate, the normal guy who would bring normalcy.

And, you know, I think of Harris's interview with Fox News the other week when she was asked if she thinks voters supporting Trump are stupid. And she said, I would never talk about the American people in that way. She, again and again, presents herself as a traditional politician, as somebody who will return to norms, the challenges that she is judged as a traditional politician and by those norms. And Trump from the beginning has sort of made it his brand not to be. And, you know, a certain percentage of the population sees him that way. And here's another theory that I've heard from a bunch of Republicans about the strategy behind the extreme statements. It's not just that he's letting his id flag fly or being just undisciplined. It's that if you are trying to get low propensity voters out and low propensity voters are his big target group, white, non-college men who don't

usually come out to vote, the more extreme rhetoric will scare them, motivate them, anger them. That's the way you get low propensity voters out. Danielle Pletka When we're talking about trying to boost turnout, you really see that at his rallies lately. If there's something that has changed at his rallies, and this makes sense as election day approaches, this is it. When he has guest speakers get up and talk before him, one of the things that they are saying often multiple times is, I want each of you to go tell 10 of your friends to go

vote. Trump will sometimes say, you know, get your ass off the couch or get your husband's ass off the couch, some formulation of that statement. That's what a normal politician does. That's what every normal politician does. Absolutely. But in addition to that, there's this video that plays before Trump's rallies on repeat where he is encouraging people to vote by mail, vote early. He acknowledges that it may not be the way you want to vote. It may not be the best way. We're going to fix the system later once I'm elected.

But these ways of voting that in the past he had derided as somehow leading to corruption, he's saying, look, you got to vote that way now, please go do it. They're trying to get anybody who might be sympathetic to go out and vote. This is in line with, you know, it's not just the Trump campaign, but it's his supporters as well. I checked in earlier this week with Ralph Reed, who is an architect of the Christian right, you know, get out the vote effort that's been building for decades. And they're laser focused on the seven swing states plus a handful of significant states

for the makeup of Congress. They're reaching out to low propensity voters, people who share their point of view, who are sympathetic, conservative Catholics and evangelicals, sometimes showing up two, three times at the door, encouraging them to get out the vote. So it's about turnout, it's not about persuasion. I think we have a really interesting contrast here between the Trump campaign and the Harris

campaign. The voters that Harris is going for that she hopes will put her over the top are generally people who vote. They are regular voters, you know, college educated white people, people in the suburbs. And the people that Trump is going for are not regular voters. They are unlikely voters. They are young men. They are young black men who they are, you know, the Trump campaign is trying to peel off some support from. Harris is obviously also trying to get black men to vote for her. Their closing is aimed at two very different demographics in terms of the traditional way in which they vote or don't vote. Right.

And what I would add to that is that this dovetails nicely with a thing we've talked on the podcast before, which is Trump and Vance's bro podcast strategy of going on these podcasts that are very much listened to based on the data we have largely by men, largely by young men in particular. Well, today he is taping with Joe Rogan, the king of podcasters and who has a lot of men who listen to him as well. And when I asked the campaign about that strategy a month or two ago, what they told me was, listen, this is not about men and okay, but that's, what they told me was, listen, this is not about men. And okay, but that's that is who you're reaching. But they said, this is

not about men. This is about leaving no stone unturned. This is about getting his voice to people who might not otherwise hear it. And yeah, you can imagine that getting your voice in the ears of someone who listens to Theo von, who isn't usually a super political guy, might get some guys off the couch or gamer chair and out to the polling booth. Mara, thanks and we'll talk to you soon. Okay, take care. Let's take another quick break and when we get back, Can't Let It Go. And we're back and it's time to end the week the way we always do with Can't Let It Go, where we talk about the things we just can't stop thinking about, politics or otherwise.

Tam, what you got? Poop. Why? Well, so there is a new installation on the National Mall. It's a short term thing. It's only there for about a week. And it features a desk with a phone and a placard that says it's Nancy Pelosi's desk with a giant poop emoji on top.

With Nancy Pelosi's desk? Well, so it's related to January 6th and it can be consumed as art. It has a placard that says, This memorial honors the brave men and women who broke into the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021 to loot, urinate, and defecate throughout those hallowed halls in order to overturn an election. President Trump celebrates these heroes of January 6 as unbelievable patriots and warriors.

This monument stands as a testament to their daring sacrifice and lasting legacy." It's more serious than it seems, but it's a giant poop emoji on a desk and it has become quite the tourist attraction. I think people are all consuming it, experiencing it in different ways, which is, I guess, sort of the beauty of art, right? You know, I appreciate the seriousness with which we are interpreting this art, Tam. Thanks, I hate it. According to the Washington Post, the National Park Service granted a permit for this to

Civic Crafted LLC. It will remain on the Mall through October 30th, and the Park Service says that it does not consider the content of the message to be presented. But it's there. And it'll be moving along soon out of our civic spaces. Moving along indeed. Danielle, I'm afraid to ask now, but what do you have this week? What can't you let go? I consider it less stomach-turning than poop. I can't let go of the Insane Clown Posse, which is a rap duo. You should look them up. They have,

as their name would suggest, they wear a sort of version of clown makeup. It's really distinctive. And their music also distinctive. Anyway, this week, one of the two people in that group, Violent J, endorsed Kamala Harris. And I've just been sent down the Insane Clown Posse rabbit hole, which is not one I've ever really gone down before. Just their Wikipedia page. I'm sad to tell my supervisors here at NPR that I spent a good 20 minutes reading this today. You had to prepare for can't let it go.

Research. There is Insane Clown Posse lore I was not aware of. First of all, wasn't aware that they've been around since 1989. Whoa. Wasn't aware that they have like mythology that are surrounding their songs and their albums. And I knew that Juggalo is a way of life, but I didn't know how deep it went.

And it goes pretty deep. Is this a coveted endorsement? Have they endorsed in the past? Do we know? I honestly don't know, but I think it is worth considering, after all, they are from Detroit originally and Michigan is, you know, a swing state. And like I said, Juggalo is a way of life. These guys have committed followers. So maybe the insane clown posse acolytes out

there really will listen to Violet J and go vote for Kamala Harris. I look forward to any and all grad school dissertations on this. Please send them to me. I want to know. And exit polls. All right. We can go down this rabbit hole forever, but we shouldn't. Sarah, what can't you let go of? Mine is about people who truly literally cannot let go at the airport. So a city in New Zealand recently, I guess, renovated part of their passenger drop-off area. And they had to put up signs that said, max hug time three minutes.

And this was, according to the CEO of the airport, this was designed to keep things moving along, because apparently some people were having a long goodbye. And it sparked a bit of a backlash. The CEO gave an interview in which he said that they were accused of quote, breaching basic human rights. And how dare we limit how long someone can have a hug for.

Bah humbug, man. Like why are you trying to cut off people's love, right? Air travel is unpleasant no matter what. Like this is not the Hill you die on or the fight you pick when you're trying to improve air travel. Go make the seats bigger. Well, apparently some people liked it because they were tired of people taking

too long. You know, those are the, the bah humbug people. Um, and I loved it. The, in the same interview, the airport CEO had done his research because he noted that a 20 second hug is long enough to release the feel good hormones like oxytocin and serotonin. And he said, anything longer is really awkward. I think it depends on who you're hugging. But I love the idea that one of the biggest problems this airport is facing is just people being

too affectionate for too long. Hug. Well, go hug somebody you love, but maybe limit it to three minutes. That is a wrap for this week. Our executive producer is Mathone Maturi. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our producers are Jung Yoon Han, Casey Morell,

and Kelly Wessinger. Special thanks to Brett Neely. I am Sarah McCammon. I cover the campaign. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. And I'm Danielle Kurtzleben. I also cover the campaign.

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.