The NPR Politics Podcast - Senate Committee Reviews New Allegations Against Kavanaugh; Trump Defends His Nominee

Episode Date: September 27, 2018

The Senate Judiciary Committee is reviewing a statement from a third woman who has come forward with sexual misconduct allegations against Supreme Court nominee Judge Brett Kavanaugh. And during a rare press conference, President Trump defended his embattled Supreme Court nominee Judge Brett Kavanaugh, who faces multiple allegations of sexual misconduct. This episode: White House correspondent Tamara Keith, national political correspondent Mara Liasson, Congressional reporter Kelsey Snell, and White House reporter Ayesha Rascoe. Email the show at [e-mail]. Find and support your local public radio station at npr.org/stations.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Jordan from South Dakota, but I'm currently studying in Krakow, Poland, where I just mailed off my absentee voter application. This podcast was recorded at 6.54 p.m. on Wednesday, the 26th of September. Things may have changed by the time you hear it. Okay, here's the show. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh has been accused of sexual misconduct by another woman. And President Trump addressed those allegations and a whole lot more in a rare solo press conference.

This is a big con job. And I would love to be in the room with the Democrats, close the door. You guys are all away outside waiting. And Schumer and his buddies are all in there laughing how they fooled you all. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. I'm Kelsey Snell. I cover Congress. And I'm Mara Liason, national political correspondent. All right, guys. And we have on the phone with us right now, White House reporter Ayesha Roscoe. Hey, Ayesha. Hello. And just tell us where you are right now. I am in Trump Tower. You were at the press conference today. Tell us what that was like

in the room. It was well, it was jam packed. You know, everyone was just kind of buzzing, you know, about everything that's been going on. Obviously, Supreme Court, Rosenstein, so much. And Ayesha, you made some news today. You got him to make some news. Yeah, I asked him about the session that he was supposed to have with Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and whether he was going to fire him. Mr. President, you have another meeting tomorrow with Rod Rosenstein. Yes. Are you planning to fire Rod Rosenstein? I'm talking to him. Mr. President, you have another meeting tomorrow with Rod Rosenstein. Are you planning to fire Rod Rosenstein? I'm talking to him. And his answer was that he didn't want to fire him. I would much prefer keeping Rod Rosenstein. Much prefer. Many people say I have the right to absolutely

affirm. And he also seems to say that he might delay the meeting. I may call Rod tonight or tomorrow and ask for a little bit of a delay to the meeting because I may call Rod tonight or tomorrow and ask for a little bit of a delay to the meeting because I don't want to do anything that gets in the way of this very important Supreme Court pick. So it was a very interesting answer. Of course, he also did go into,

I didn't ask about the Russia investigation, but he volunteered that there was no collusion and the Russia investigation was a witch hunt that there was no collusion and the Russia investigation was a witch hunt. And he talked a lot about that. And President Trump said he is planning potentially maybe to postpone that meeting with Rod Rosenstein about his fate so that he can spend more time watching the hearing tomorrow where Brett Kavanaugh and Christine Blasey Ford will testify. So I guess the president's going to be doing what the rest of us are doing, which is watching.

All right. Well, you are there on the road with the president and we're going to let you go. And we're going to dig in on on this hearing with Brett Kavanaugh that's coming up. OK, thanks, guys. See you soon. Have a good trip. Yeah. Safe travels. Thank you. Okay. So I still have with me Kelsey Snell over on the Hill and Mara Liason, national political correspondent. Kelsey lawyer for a woman named Julie Swetnick, who is now making accusations against Brett Kavanaugh. Can you tell me what those accusations are? Yeah, so her accusations came in the form of a sworn affidavit that he released, that Avenatti released.

In it, Swetnick describes going to parties that Kavanaugh also attended in the early 1980s. And she says that she saw Kavanaugh drunk there and he was pressing himself against girls without their consent, engaging in other kinds of drunk behavior. And she alleges that she was raped at one of those parties where Kavanaugh was. So he was at the party that she attended. And she doesn't say that he was involved in that act. Those are the allegations. The response from Brett Kavanaugh through a statement is, quote, this is ridiculous. And from the Twilight Zone, I don't know who this is. And this never happened. And Kavanaugh, when he sat down earlier in the week for an interview with Fox News, was asked sort of broadly about this type of allegation.

And this is what he said. Yes, there were parties and the drinking age was 18. And yes, the seniors were legal and had beer there. And yes, people might have had too many beers on occasion. And people generally in high school, I think all of us have probably done things we look back on in high school and regret or cringe a bit. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about an allegation of sexual assault. I've never sexually assaulted anyone.

I did not have sexual intercourse or anything close to sexual intercourse in high school or for many years thereafter. How is this playing? It was incredibly divisive up on the Hill today. It was, it sent everybody back to their corners. And honestly, it sent a lot of Republicans into a silent zone. So we were running around all day asking them if they had read the allegations, if they thought that the hearing should be postponed, if the vote should be postponed. And I couldn't find a single Republican who would commit to the idea that the hearing should be postponed, if the vote should be postponed. And I couldn't find a single Republican who would commit to the idea that the hearing should be postponed or the vote that's scheduled

for Friday on Kavanaugh's nomination in the Judiciary Committee should be postponed. Where is the White House on this? Where is the president on this? Well, I think that what you saw today in New York was that the president has been frustrated about how this is going. As he said, he thinks it should have been pushed through two and a half weeks ago. The president's press conference was so interesting because President Trump, even though he has given very, very few of these solo press conferences, is one of the most transparent presidents I've ever covered. You know what he's thinking as he's thinking it. And what you heard him say were a couple

contradictory things. He said, I might change my mind. I'm willing to listen to what she says. They're going to have a big shot at speaking and making their case. And you know what? I could be persuaded also. But he also said, you know, we need to push this through. That's the clear message to the Republican base. If Kavanaugh goes down, nobody else will serve. They'll all say no thanks because if he can be accused of this terrible smear, anybody can be. He was asked whether his own experience of being accused of sexual assault colors his opinion of Kavanaugh's accusations. He says it does. Absolutely.

I've had a lot of false charges made against me, really false charges. I know friends that have had false charges. People want fame. They want money. They want whatever. So when I see it, I view it differently than somebody sitting home watching television where they say, oh, Judge Kavanaugh, this or that. It's happened to me many times. I've had many false charges. He wants to push this nomination through. On the other hand, he's been told you've got to be respectful of this woman. Women are angry, which they are. But he said women are angry about the way Kavanaugh is being treated, which is exactly the opposite of what's happening.

The people that have complained to me about it the most about what's happening are women. Women are very angry. Yeah, that's interesting because I talked to several Republicans and campaign folks today who are actually really concerned about the way this is playing out and what women are going to do when they show up and vote in November. And they worry about particularly suburban women, those same women we've been talking about for a very long time, who are going to watch this hearing tomorrow and are watching the way this is being handled. And they're not so sure that these women are going to E.A. show up and vote Republican if they're Republican or B. if they're undecided, show up and do anything but go run to the Democrats. Which is a completely separate question as to whether Kavanaugh will be confirmed or not.

So there's been a lot of buildup to this hearing that is happening in the morning, but now it's about to happen. And we even already have the opening statements from both Kavanaugh and Blasey Ford. Kelsey, what can we expect to hear from them? We're going to hear first from Blasey Ford herself. She will testify, and we have a copy of a written version of the prepared version that she's going to deliver. And I think it's kind of striking that in it, she says that she's not going to be showing up because she wants to be there. She says she's terrified. She says she's doing it because she believes it's her civic duty to say what happened to her while Brett Kavanaugh and she were in high school. And it's a powerful statement that she makes in this eight-page-long

opening statement. There's also a part in her opening statement where she talks about not remembering everything, but that there are some things that she simply can't forget. Yeah. She also says that she wishes she could provide detailed answers to all the questions that people have been asking and she's expecting to be asked about how she got to the party, where it was and all of that. She says she just doesn't have the answers and she doesn't remember it as much as she would like to. But she said the details about that night that bring her there are the ones she won't forget. She said, they've been seared into my memory and have haunted me episodically as an adult. So it is a very, very clear and forceful statement that she's going to deliver. And then she will be questioned. Now, Democrats plan to ask the questions themselves,

and they have five minutes each to ask questions. They will take turns with an outside attorney, a woman that was hired by Republicans to ask the questions on their behalf. Until we see this hearing, until we see Blasey Ford's testimony and until we see Kavanaugh's testimony, until we see the questioning, it is just impossible for us to know how this is going to play, how it's going to register with viewers, with senators who are going to have to make a decision. Right. And that's what most of the senators, particularly the undecided ones, have been telling me. I talked to a lot of them today. And I think the one that stood out to me the most, I think, was Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee. Now, remember, he doesn't have a lot to lose here, right? He's retiring. He doesn't have to answer to voters again or to the people, you know, to the Republican donors who help pay for campaigns. He says that he has blocked out his entire day essentially to be watching this. And he referred to it as that make or break moment, that moment that he is going

to be so critical for him to make his decision. Well, and the fact that there are a number of undecided senators for you to talk to is an indication that this is not a slam dunk, that Kavanaugh is not guaranteed to be confirmed, that this hearing really, really matters. It does. And we've talked about this before, but I think it's always good to remind people of the kind of political dynamics here. So there are 51 Republicans, and they need at least 50 of them to vote for this nominee in order for him to be approved. They can bring in Vice President Mike Pence to break a tie. So losing just one person puts them at risk.

Losing two means that Kavanaugh can't be approved. And Kelsey, we are going to stop right there, take a quick break, because there is some new news that we need to get straightened out. More potential accusers when we come back. Support for NPR and the following message come from PBS presenting a new documentary called Dark Money. It's about a journalist trying to expose the dark money groups who contribute large sums of untraceable money to buy politicians and influence elections. Exploring questions including who are these groups, what are they hiding, are they foreign or domestic, and what does it mean for American voters?

Don't miss Dark Money, Monday, October 1st at 10, 9 central, only on PBS. Sam Sanders here. This week on my show, I interview actress Natasha Rothwell, also known as Kelly from HBO's Insecure. We talk about that role and how she got a writing job on SNL through a secret black woman-only audition. Download it now. It's been a minute from NPR.

All right, we are back. The time now is 7.54 p.m., which is to say we took sort of an extended time away to figure out exactly what's going on. Here's what we can tell you. In transcripts released by the Senate Judiciary Committee late Wednesday, it was revealed that committee staff had questioned Kavanaugh on Tuesday about two other accusations that had been reported to the committee. So, Kelsey, what more do we know about this? And just to say, Kavanaugh was under oath during this questioning. So this happened, as far as I know, in a phone call with Judiciary Committee staff. Republicans asked the questions and Democrats didn't. We, as far as we know,

and talking to Republicans and Democrats during this break that we took, Judiciary Committee has a team of investigators, which we already knew, and they're fielding all of these calls and reports and they look at them as they come in. They investigate every single one of them if they're anonymous or otherwise. And there have been many that turned out to be false claims or dead ends. But there are two that rose to the level where they were asking about them in this call. Yeah. And Democrats were on the call, but they didn't ask questions, they said, because they found out about it so late. Right. We're not going to go into too much detail about what these incidents were because they are not corroborated in any way. One dates back to 1998, one 1985. Both were anonymously reported. Is that right? Yes. And so earlier today, we should note Chuck Grassley, the chairman of the

committee, tweeted out that about 20 of his committee investigators are tracking down all allegations and leads and talking to all witnesses and gathering all evidence. As fast as he possibly can do it. Right, because we have a hearing that is happening at 10 a.m. on Thursday. Right, and Republicans are very intent on seeing, as Mitch McConnell said, if they can plow through this and get him confirmed. Well, yeah, they also have scheduled a vote for Friday morning on his nomination. Now, they have repeatedly said since they scheduled this vote that it was a matter of rules that they had to kind of go and set it up in case they wanted to vote on Friday, but it'll be contingent upon there being enough, a majority of Republicans or a majority of the committee ready to vote. And we should say that Kavanaugh denied these

latest accusations according to a committee transcript, he was asked if these incidents happened. He said, no, and we're dealing with an anonymous letter about an anonymous person and an anonymous friend. It's ridiculous, total twilight zone, and no, I've never done anything like that. So very similar to his previous denials. And while all of these various anonymous allegations are being tracked down and all of these things are pouring in, there is going to be a hearing unless something dramatic happens. There is going to be a hearing in the morning. That's right. And Brett Kavanaugh is going to get a chance to testify and explain himself and make these denials in a very public way.

We know what his opening statement says, just as we knew about Christine Blasey Ford's opening statement. Kelsey, walk us through what type of argument Brett Kavanaugh is expected to make. Yeah, a couple of things stood out to me. One is that he talks about there being a frenzy to come up with something, anything far-fetched or odious, as he puts it, to block a vote on his nomination. And he says, again, we've heard this before, that there are their last minute smears. He also talks about the idea of sexual assault in general and says that it's horrific and morally wrong and that it's illegal and that it's contrary to his religious faith. Also things we've heard from him before. But then he also talks about the independent judiciary and he talks about not being swayed by public or political pressure.

And he's kind of drawing the comparison here to saying that he will not be pressured here, nor would he be pressured on the bench. OK, so while you were saying that, we just got from the Judiciary Committee the letter, this anonymous letter. So this is remarkable. I am now looking at in my inbox, a letter, even a scanned copy of the envelope that the letter came in making this anonymous allegation. Full color. Full color scan. What is going on here? This seems very unusual. It is unusual, but it is not unusual in these last two weeks. The Republicans, ever since this first allegation came out, have been going out of their way to make sure that everybody knows that they are trying to put all of the information out there, make it all public, so that they can avoid any accusation that they were hiding information that they weren't investigating. So they make it harder for Democrats to accuse them of not taking these allegations seriously, even as they're moving forward rather quickly with these hearings and with the vote. Mara, not to be conspiratorial, but is there another option here, which is they

are just trying to pile on so many things that it becomes a circus. And by being a circus, it discredits the process or discredits the original accuser? I don't think so. I think that they are trying to do two things at once. Be fair to the accusers. Be transparent. This is a case where process really matters because the public is going to make a judgment tomorrow about how the Republican majority on the Senate Judiciary Committee treated her and treated all the accusers.

I think they're trying to show the public, particularly suburban educated women who are the key swing vote in this election, that they are treating these allegations with the respect they deserve. I think what we can say is that people are getting confused and that there are plenty of Republicans who are now saying some of these accusations are absolutely crazy. And if you build up enough people saying that the fourth, fifth or sixth or seventh or dozenth one is crazy, that might mean they all are. Yeah. And I think that's that is the reaction you've seen from Republicans ever since the second accusation came out. And especially with the ones that are anonymous. You know, you've seen Republicans get angry and feel that he is being smeared. But this does raise the question as to why the FBI has not been asked to chase some of these leads down. And the president was asked about this today, and he gave his usual answer, well, this isn't something they do. They'd already investigated him. The fact is, if the White

House wanted to ask the FBI to pursue this, just as the H.W. Bush White House asked the FBI to look into the Anita Hill allegations after the original hearings were over, very similar situation, and the FBI did that, I think it took them three days, the FBI could be involved. But the White House does not want them to. And Democrats are definitely going to say that tomorrow. They're saying it right now. They've been saying it for days. And I think that going to say that tomorrow. They're saying it right now. They've been saying it for days. And I think that that has been persuasive. There's evidence that that argument has been persuasive to some people.

I think that it's important to say that in Washington, political motivation is going to be a lot of things all at once. We're going to watch this hearing tomorrow, and we're going to be back in the studio with another podcast all about what happened and what comes next. And this weekend, like every weekend, we'll be releasing our newsletter that breaks down the big themes of the week. You can subscribe by going to NPR.org backslash politics newsletter. Of course, we'll have a radio show on.

Check your local listings. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. I'm Kelsey Snell. I cover Congress. I'm Mara Liason, national political correspondent. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.