The NPR Politics Podcast - Sixty-Six Percent Of Alabamians Still Need The Shot. Can Tommy Tuberville Help?

Episode Date: July 28, 2021

The White House says it is "following the science" on masks after the CDC issued new guidance, but some experts say they're falling short on the social science: how to convince the remaining 40 percent of American adults to get vaccinated.Alabama has the lowest vaccination rate in the nation and residents there aren't likely to listen to President Biden. Can football coach-turned-Senator Tommy Tuberville convince the rest of the state to get inoculated?This episode: White House correspondent Scott Detrow, White House correspondent Tamara Keith, national correspondent Debbie Elliott, and senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro.Connect:Subscribe to the NPR Politics Podcast here.Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Listen to our playlist The NPR Politics Daily Workout.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio station.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Andy. I'm aboard the Miss Ashley out here in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay trying to catch some fish. It is really hot out here and the fish aren't biting. And this podcast was recorded at 208 Eastern on Wednesday, July 28th. Things may have changed before you hear it. And hopefully we will catch a whopper. Okay, here's the show. So, funny story. I was on that boat. Really? And we only caught one fish. And he told me that he had recorded a timestamp and I didn't believe him. But you were there with him while he was recording it? We were out there for four hours, multiple people threw up, and we only caught one fish.

Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Scott Detrow, I cover the White House. I'm Tamara Keith, I also cover the White House. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. So, I mean, I think it's clear what we're going to talk about today. Suddenly, the pandemic seems like it is not in the rearview mirror. The Delta variant is surging, particularly in places with a lot of unvaccinated people. And now the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has revised its guidance on wearing masks. The agency is now recommending that fully vaccinated people wear masks in indoor public spaces if they live in areas with significant or high spread.

Tam, what is going on here? And there are actually a lot of areas of in areas with significant or high spread. Tam, what is going on here? And there are actually a lot of areas of this country with significant or high spread. And what's happening is things have changed. The Delta variant is now the dominant variant in the U.S. It is significantly more contagious than earlier variants. And Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the CDC director, said that they needed to make this change in guidance because they have new data showing that people who are vaccinated and get a breakthrough infection may actually be able to transmit the coronavirus, which they didn't think earlier when they put out that earlier guidance.

That's a pretty big change. Yeah, it is. And it results in a bit of whiplash. And, you know, the politics of it, I think, are possibly more complicated than the science of it. So this is a recommendation. And I think, you know, one of the biggest trend lines of the last year is that these recommendations have carried a lot less weight with people over time for a wide range of reasons. Burnout, frustration, people feeling like they don't trust the CDC or they just never get the message to begin with. What are we seeing in terms of how these recommendations are turning into new local rules that people would see in their lives about mask wearing. Well, here in the bubble that is the White House, the signs have gone back up and masks are required

indoors at the White House for White House employees. But out in the real world, it's not clear exactly how this is going to be applied. You've seen California bring back mask mandates. You've seen it in some other areas, but it isn't widespread and immediate. And in some states, they are actively saying, no, you can't have a mask mandate. Mask mandates are a thing of the past, and we're not bringing them back. You've seen Republican governors basically say, yeah, no, that time in our lives is over. I mean, Domenico, this is obviously a huge political problem for President Biden, right? He has put so much of his political future betting on getting the pandemic under control and back to normal. And that, you know, big football spiking July 4th events and parties at the White House and ice cream trucks around the country from the DNC and many other things. I mean, it kind of looks bad. Obviously, the situation has changed. They did not know variants were going to surge the way they had.

But this is a huge political problem. Well, I mean, they can't control the Delta variant. And, you know, they've seen the pattern from other parts of the world. You know, we're sort of behind what's happened in other parts of the world. And, you know, they've other parts of the world have had it far worse than the United States because the United States has higher vaccination rates than most other places in the world. Still, in the United States, only 60 percent of the adult US population has been fully vaccinated. So, you know, it does have the chance to be a potential political problem for President Biden, because this has been his strength so far.

You know, six months into his presidency, he gets very high marks for his handling of the coronavirus pandemic, you know, and it's a little iffy on some of the other issues. If this starts to slip, it's an even bigger problem for him. Yeah, just to be honest with both of you, I think you know this, because I've, I've emoted to you about this. But like, this has just been a particularly tough twist to process. I mean, you feel like life is almost entirely back, you feel like this is in the rearview mirror, and this comes back. But at the same time, I feel like it's morphed into this other incredibly depressing story that, you know, defines our political times. And that is just this trench political warfare, identity politics, viewing every single thing in the world through the prism of politics. And, you know, just to wrap up the conversation on Washington in particular,

Domenico, how is this going to play out in the House of Representatives where I feel like every day I expect another fight to break out like it did in the 1850s now now there's mask mandates again in the House I mean that's not going to go over well no it's not and you know that's obviously a place where we see this partisan trench warfare as you call it taking place first and foremost ever ever present, that happening there, people calling each other names, not really wanting to follow guidance. And in fact, not following guidance in some corners of this country is actually seen as a political plus. So when you have that, it makes public health very difficult. And public health is not the kind of thing that is supposed to be

political. You know, unfortunately, over the past year and a half, it has become so and like everything else, just partisan and makes it that much more difficult to get something like a pandemic over with. Yeah, I was talking to an infectious diseases expert today about this mass guidance and sort of the evolution on mask guidance. And he said, you know, they get an A for basic science and following what the science tells them, but they get an incomplete, he argued, for social science. And the fact is that social science is just as important in tackling a pandemic, getting people to get vaccinated, getting people to do take public health measures. The social science is almost

more important than the, you know, basic biology. I think the country as a whole probably is getting an F in social science at this point. People want to believe what they believe first and foremost, and it makes it hard. I have a lot more thoughts about that. I'm going to put them aside for now. Tam, before we take a break, though, there is an important next step to come. And that's what the White House does when it comes to the powers it has to issue mandates to federal employees, among other things. Yeah. So the president is supposed to make a big speech tomorrow to outline the next steps to help break through what has been this very low plateau in vaccination rates. And there are three million civilian federal employees in the United States.

They are not going to mandate vaccination, but they're going to make it a little bit uncomfortable for people who choose not to be vaccinated. And I should say they are strongly considering this move. We'll know for sure when the announcement gets made, but a person familiar with the deliberation says they are strongly considering a system where federal employees would have to verify their vaccination status. And if they are not vaccinated, undergo weekly testing and be required to wear masks indoors at all times, even if they are in areas with low viral transmission. I think we need like maybe a timestamp at the end of this conversation, because this is a lot of stuff to process and a big change. Domenico, though, we're going to let

you go before we continue the conversation with a focus on Alabama. But thanks for hanging out. All right. Well, stay safe out there or in there in your case, I guess. All right. We're going to take a quick break and come back with Debbie Elliott talking about what this looks like in Alabama.

NPR's Planet Money Summer School is back. This season is all about investing. We've got stories of big bets, bubble spotting, and cute animals too. Every Wednesday till Labor Day from NPR's Planet Money. We are back with NPR's Debbie Elliott. Hey, Debbie. Hi there. You are joining us because you have been doing some reporting on the fact that COVID cases are spiking, especially in the South. You've been in Alabama. Hospitalizations are up five-fold since the start of the month. What does it look like there right now?

You know, it's pretty rampant. of low vaccination rates in this Delta variant is causing what is an unprecedented spike in COVID cases and COVID hospitalizations. And the scary part of that is that most of those people are unvaccinated. Which means it can hurt them more. Right, because vaccinated people can still get sick. I actually have some friends who are vaccinated who have breakthrough cases of COVID right now, but they've got like a bad cold. But if you that really cut through and made a lot of national news was the way that the Alabama governor has reacted to this high rate of unvaccinated people. Yeah, so I think Alabama Governor Kay Ivey has just become really frustrated with all of the questions she's getting from reporters about things like mask mandates, say for K through 12 students. Kids under 12 can't get the vaccine.

Well, she's saying they shouldn't have to wear masks in public schools, even though you've got a clear message from health officials, including the CDC, that that's the right thing to do to protect kids and teachers. She's frustrated with being asked all these questions. She doesn't want to have to go back to curtailing business or using mask mandates. And in fact, the state legislature passed a law, and she signed it, that forbids businesses, governments, schools from even requiring vaccinations. So there is very much this government should not be forcing people to do anything. But reporters keep asking her, look at these numbers.

Shouldn't you be doing more? And that's when she turned and said, it's the unvaccinated people. People need to get shots. That's what our problem is. It's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks. It's the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down. She said she's done all she can do, and it's up to people to get shots and be responsible for their own families. And Tam, can you remind us how the White House, the CDC, all the different federal operators here

are trying to reach people in places like Alabama who are unvaccinated. Yeah. So the strategy is to get vaccines into every single location you possibly can and to essentially beg people to go talk to their doctors and hope their doctors can convince them because, you know, Joe Biden knows that he's not going to persuade a bunch of people in Alabama to go get vaccines. The message has very much become this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated, complicated a bit by the breakthrough infections. And the White House is saying these things are available. They're working with preachers. They're working with community groups.

They're doing everything they can without putting too many fingerprints on it to make it, you know, to turn people off. Well, you know, the interesting thing down here, certainly in Alabama, we love our college football, right? Roll Tide. They recruited the coaches to help. You know, Alabama coach Nick Saban says his team is 90% vaccinated. He wants fans to get vaccinated so that it doesn't jeopardize this year's football season. You know, we also have a former football coach who is now in the U.S. Senate from Alabama, Republican Tommy Tuberville. He's recorded a Facebook message trying to encourage people to get their shots.

We're on the one yard line, but we just need one more play to run it in. You can help us get the win against COVID by getting vaccinated. So we'll see if those work. Are we really on the one yard line? Yeah, we were. Then we got a 10 yard penalty. We're still in the red zone.

We're in the red zone. Yeah. All right. Debbie Elliott, you're welcome back anytime. Maybe we can just talk football next time you're on the podcast. We can do like a breakout football podcast. Does that sound good?

Roll Tide. All right. And before we go, before we go, Senate negotiators have now said they have made enough progress on an infrastructure deal to move ahead on a bipartisan test vote in the Senate. More on that on air and online. And that's right. It means probably another infrastructure podcast coming to your feed sometime soon.

I'm Scott Detrow. I cover the White House. And I'm Tamara Keith. I also cover the White House. Thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.