The NPR Politics Podcast - Some 6300 New Migrants Arrived At The Southern Border Every Day Of June

Episode Date: July 26, 2021

Customs and Border Protection reported encounters with 188,829 migrants and asylum-seekers at the U.S. southern border last month, the highest level in a generation. The Biden administration has struggled with how to respond.This episode: White House correspondent Scott Detrow, White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez, and national political correspondent Mara Liasson.Connect:Subscribe to the NPR Politics Podcast here.Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Listen to our playlist The NPR Politics Daily Workout.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio station.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Nick Medley calling from Beppu, the hot spring capital of Japan. My university English students and I are about to finish our third semester learning online. This podcast was recorded at... It is 1.05 Eastern on Monday, July 26th. That's a long time online. That is. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but I'll still be grading papers daydreaming about going back to in-person classes next semester.

All right, here's the show. Have the two of you, speaking of Japan, been watching the Olympics? Oh, yeah. My husband is a former rower, so I'm getting a play-by-play. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Scott Detrow. I cover the White House. I'm Frank Ordonez. I also cover the White House. And I'm Mara Liason, national political correspondent. Well, we are going to not become an Olympics podcast despite our best efforts every four

years to do that one day, maybe. Today, we are going to have a conversation about immigration. President Biden, you know, is in a tough place on immigration. He faces growing pressure from supporters who want his administration to stop turning away asylum seekers. And critics, of course, want him to do more to stop what has turned into one of the largest waves of migrants arriving at the border in recent history. Biden's delivering remarks this afternoon to a major Latino advocacy group. So this seems like a good time to take a step back and have a conversation about this, especially with you, Franco, because you have been covering it so relentlessly. You know, let's start at that big picture. We've been

talking about COVID and infrastructure and a lot of other things. Quietly, the Biden administration has been handling a really big number of people coming to the U.S. southern border. Yeah, we've been seeing very, very high numbers of migrants arriving at the border, with border agents averaging more than 6,000 encounters a day. And that's the most that the United States have seen in recent history. Some of those numbers were increasing before Biden took office, but Biden came into office declaring a more humane immigration policy. And the administration itself acknowledged that there was a lot of pent-up demand in Central America, particularly after the Trump administration's really tough policies. And what we're now seeing are these really, really high numbers

that we have not seen in a long time, including during some of the hottest months of the year when migration historically has dropped or plateaued a bit. And it's caused a political problem for him as well as an operational problem for him. And the administration's handling this, of course, has become a big political point early on, kind of best crystallized by the way Republican lawmakers kept criticizing Vice President Harris for not visiting the border herself, which she eventually did do.

But at the same time, there's a lot of pressure from progressives as well who want to see a lot more action on immigration priorities, specifically action that kind of matches the promises that were made by the Biden campaign. Yeah, there's no question like Biden is really stuck between a rock and a hard place. I mean, on the right, Republicans really see this as an issue that they can rally upon. I mean, we've talked so much on this podcast about some of the challenges that the Republican Party has kind of getting together on some important issues. But on this one, this is something where Republicans have really unified behind and they're pointing a lot of fingers at Biden. I mean, I'm talking about people that

Republicans who previously were on board to a pathway to citizenship, to protecting these young immigrants, people like Senator Lindsey Graham, but also Senator Susan Collins, who has also raised concerns about the border. On the other side, as you were pointing out to the left, there's a big push from advocates and supporters and even some more progressive members of Congress for Biden to kind of pull back to remove some more of the Trump era policies that he has left in place, such as an immigration policy that allows him to turn back asylum seekers. Well, Franco, what do you think the chances are that Congress will act? The Dreamer Bill,

which would protect from deportation young people brought here as children without documents, now they're members of the military or teachers or firefighters, etc. There was bipartisan support for a bill that would protect them from deportation. How likely is it with this big surge at the border that that bill, the DACA bill, has any chance? Yeah, I mean, that's a million dollar question, but I will say it does not look good. It does not look good at all. I mean, Biden introduced his comprehensive plan early in the administration. That has pretty much gone absolutely nowhere. In some ways, he kind of backed off on it and said, Congress, if you're not going to support this,

which looks like the case, why don't you pass some of the smaller measures that I support, such as a bill to protect these dreamers as well as farm workers. But as you note, those measures haven't gone very far either. They did pass in the House, but they've basically stalled in the Senate because they can't get that support. And a lot of that has to do with these reservations about the border. It really is a tough spot. I mean, this is an issue that so many presidents have faced and struggled with, and Biden is just the most recent one. And then, of course, you know, we talked about it last week, there's this recent federal court ruling on the status of DACA. And there has been conversation among Democrats

about maybe trying to add one more thing into that reconciliation package that's probably going to pass on party lines when it comes up. It's, of course, massive already, three and a half trillion dollars is the starting conversation. Mara, do you see that as a possibility? And at the same time, I feel like there's a lot of contenders out there, but like is dealing with immigration kind of top of And then it didn't, just like infrastructure, something that used to not be subject to severe partisanship. But I do think that reconciliation is becoming the kitchen sink, kind of the catch-all for everything the Democrats want to get done, but can't get 10 Republican votes for in the Senate. And whether they're able to put DACA, you know, Deferred Action for Child Arrivals, onto reconciliation is really up to the Senate parliamentarian. And she's going to have to decide whether or not it has a direct impact on the federal budget, because that's the criteria that gets something on a budget reconciliation bill.

The White House has offered its support for including immigration and reconciliation. But I'll just note that in the past week, Biden has twice questioned whether the Senate rules would allow it. So he's definitely raising questions. And last time around, that was a pretty early indicator, you know, with the minimum wage in the rescue plan. Biden kept saying that, and then the White House kind of backed off, and then Democrats stopped pushing that issue. And it kind of seems like maybe the same patterns playing out. All right. We're going to take a quick break.

More on this in a moment. Good question. That's a really good question. It's a great question. This is free therapy. Thank you for asking me that. God, that's such a good question. That's an interesting question.

But what Fresh Air interviews are really about are the interesting answers. Listen and subscribe to Fresh Air from WHYY and NPR. And we're back. Franco, one other big factor out there is what's called Title 42. It's a little bit confusing, but it's becoming an increasingly high profile point of frustration when it comes to not only immigration policy, but immigration policy that the White House has direct control over. Can you catch us up to speed on what's going on there? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this has been a really big challenge for Biden. He did reverse many of the Trump policies on immigration, like construction of the wall, like certain travel restrictions. But this is another Trump era rule that a pandemic rule

that allows the Biden administration to turn away the vast majority of migrants and asylum seekers. Now, the Biden administration says they're keeping it in place because of public health, but advocates see it more as a political strategy to control immigration. And they are getting increasingly concerned and putting more and more pressure on the Biden administration to end it. But if they do end it, that would be not only a challenge for them politically, because Republicans are likely going to jump on it, saying that Biden is opening the borders. They've already signaled that. But some Democrats have

also been maybe concerned because the Biden administration has indicated that it will still follow the rules. And that could mean more people in detention. Yeah. Mara, we were talking about this on Friday with Domenico, that it's now late enough in an odd number year that a lot of people, especially in Congress, are making decisions, making choices, very much thinking about what could affect midterm voters. I mean, this is a perpetual issue that comes up in midterms. Republicans in particular really tried to hammer on this the last couple of elections. I mean, how do you see this kind of mixing into the other factors

you're already thinking about for next year? Well, I think it fits with the general theme that the Republicans are pushing for the midterms, which is that this is a nation in crisis, and it's because of Joe Biden, we have a crisis, they say, of violent crime. The same thing with immigration. I think that there are certain races, congressional races, where immigration will matter more than others. But just as a cautionary note for Republicans, immigration fizzled as an issue in 2018. Remember that caravan that was coming closer and closer to the border and it was going to overrun us? And that just didn't prove to be a very potent issue for Republicans. But this definitely is part of the theme that things are out of control and Biden can't get – Biden and the Democrats can't get them under control. Franco, do you have any sense among progressive activists of how much of a point of losing political momentum or possibly the opposite it is?

I mean the immigration policies that the Trump administration enacted were such a searing point of anger against the Trump administration. And Biden has certainly made a lot of changes. But there are still, you know, some pretty, pretty bad images, pretty bad stories coming from the southern border. Replacing Trump with Biden did not solve any of them immediately. Yeah, no, that's absolutely true. I mean, that is correct. I mean, they did reverse many of Trump's most egregious policies. But at the same time, there are thousands of thousands of migrants who are being turned away. And as we were just talking about Title 42, you know, they're not getting due process. They're not able to seek asylum. And these advocates and lawyers are very concerned that the United States is not following, you know,

international rules and international laws that the United States is a leader on. And also, you know, there's still migrant shelters where children are being held in. There are a lot of concerns about conditions that migrants are in, detention of migrants. You know, this is a huge issue. Biden is getting hit from the right and Biden is getting hit from the left. All right, we're going to leave it there for today. I'm Scott Detrow. I cover the White House. I'm Frank Ordonez. I also cover the White House. And I'm Mara Liason, national political correspondent. Thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.