The NPR Politics Podcast - Texas Woman Denied Emergency Abortion, Goes Out of State

Episode Date: December 12, 2023

The Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe vs. Wade last year has made it virtually impossible to get a legal abortion in Texas. This case is the latest challenge to that state's abortion ban, and an indication that abortion access will likely also remain a political issue. This episode: senior White House correspondent Tamara Keith, political correspondent Ashley Lopez, and health policy correspondent Selena Simmons-Duffin.This episode was edited by Casey Morell and Erica Morrison. It was produced by Jeongyoon Han. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.Unlock access to this and other bonus content by supporting The NPR Politics Podcast+. Sign up via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Sarah from Athens, Georgia. I just finished my very first indigo dyeing project because I had a white tunic and I knew that being me, I wouldn't be able to wear a white tunic without getting it dirty. I think it turned out pretty great. This podcast was recorded at 1145 a.m. on Tuesday, December 12th. Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but my hands will still be very, very blue. Okay, here's the show. That was my question. What color are her hands? Yeah. This is why I only wear black clothing, is because I too spilt like everything on a white shirt if I'm wearing it. Yeah, truly. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast.

I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. And I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics. And with us, an old friend of the pod, NPR health correspondent Selena Simmons-Duffin. Hey, Selena. Hey, Tam. And we're talking today about the impact of the Dobbs decision. That's the decision that overturned Roe v. Wade last year, and it continues to be felt. In Texas, a woman named Kate Cox sued the state to obtain an abortion after experiencing complications with her pregnancy. Catch us up on who she is and all

of the legal back and forth. Yeah, so this has been a really fast-moving case. About a week ago, a 31-year-old mother of two in the Dallas area filed a petition asking Texas courts to suspend all of the penalties for abortion bans so she could get an abortion. And just to explain her circumstance, she was about 20 weeks pregnant when she found out that the fetus she was carrying had trisomy 18, which is an extremely serious genetic condition. It's almost always fatal. And at the same time, she had been having her own health issues. She had gone to the ER multiple times with cramping and other symptoms. So she was seeking an abortion in Texas. And Texas has multiple laws banning abortion, very narrow, and some attorneys would argue very confusing medical exceptions for when an abortion can be legally provided in Texas. So basically, she, her husband, and her doctor, represented by the Center for Reproductive Rights, went to the courts and said, can you give us clearance to

provide an abortion that we say is medically necessary here in Texas for this patient? The district court judge who heard the case initially said yes right away from the bench. It was appealed very, very quickly by Attorney General Ken Paxton directly to the Texas Supreme Court, which put a hold on that initial ruling granting her the abortion. On Monday, there was an announcement from the Center for Reproductive Rights that she had actually decided that she couldn't wait any longer. She left the state to get an abortion, which is legal. It is only illegal to have an illegal abortion in Texas under Texas laws. So she left the state.

And a few hours later, we actually heard from the Texas Supreme Court that they didn't think she qualified for an abortion under the exception. And Cox's lawyer, Molly Duane, was on Morning Edition today. Everyone in her state has said they can't take responsibility for the human suffering that she is going through. Not the courts, not the medical board, and certainly not the attorney general. So it's been, I think, a very disappointing and challenging time for all of us. What does she mean, no one's taking responsibility? Well, basically, the Texas attorney general and the justices of the Texas Supreme Court have all said, this is a decision that should be made by doctors. And they're saying that in the context of the penalties for doctors being life in prison,

$100,000 in fines, and the loss of their medical license and livelihood. And I just want to note that, you know, for anyone who's listening and, you know, kind of scratching their heads like, oh, the Texas Supreme Court. This is an elected, an entirely elected court. And in Texas, that means an entirely Republican court. The attorney general, the Texas Supreme Court are all saying, you doctors, you, to please issue some guidance to hospitals and doctors in Texas, telling them what the language in the statute means and how to interpret it, how to apply it and use it in real life. They have not done so. And so, you know,

all of these state entities are just saying to doctors and hospitals, you have to make these possibly impossible calls and deal with the extremely intense possible consequences. Ashley, this is far from the first case that has been trying to test these abortion restrictions in Texas. What are Texas politicians saying about this case? I guess not surprisingly, we're not hearing a lot from Republicans. They sort of leave these sort of big fights, especially the sort of messy cultural politics stuff to Ken Paxton. That is what he's known for. But, you know, Democrats specifically are saying like, this is the stuff that we warned you guys about when these laws were coming up before the

legislature. They warned that the language was too vague, that this would cause serious issues for wanted and unwanted pregnancies in the state, and that OBGYNs and doctors across the state would be put in a really impossible situation. And, you know, a lot of this is just, I'm hearing just a lot of like frustration and sadness from folks who had been sort of warning Republicans who were seeking these laws about what the outcome would be. And I guess here we are. Selena, as you said, Kate Cox left Texas to get this medical procedure, as thousands of other women have done since Dobbs, leaving states where there are bans to get medical care.

Do we know why she didn't just leave in the first place without filing this lawsuit or going through this very painful public process? I also talked to Molly Duane last week, her attorney, when she first filed this case, and she described, you know, when Kate Cox first got the diagnosis, she was Googling around and found this other case that the Center for Reproductive Rights had brought against the state of Texas over the medical exception. And she reached out to them and was told, like, these are some of your options. And she opted for the choice of filing an emergency petition with the state to see if

she could get clearance to get an abortion at home. And some of the reasons why people want to have abortions where they live and not travel out of state is, I mean, being at home, being with providers you know is, you know, obviously preferred. It's extremely expensive to travel. It usually costs thousands of dollars to do that. It's often on short notice, and, you know, you have to buy expensive tickets, find hotels and, you know, go through something very personal in a strange place. So she wrote an op ed also in the Dallas Morning News about her decision, making the case for why she thought that she should be able to get care in Texas, but that the Texas Supreme Court did not agree. All right. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be back in a moment. Hey there, it's Susan Davis with a quick but very sincere thank you to our NPR Politics Plus supporters and anyone listening who donates to public media.

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And a lot of the states that have enacted restrictions on abortion access have also put into place exceptions for the life or health of the mother. But it is not always clear what those exceptions mean. And, Ashley, I'm wondering what this case tells us about how real those exceptions really are. Yeah. I mean, importantly, in Texas, this is the only exception to the state's abortion ban. Like the only way that you can have access to an abortion in Texas is if your health is at risk. So no rape, no incest, which are the other common exceptions. Right. Very politically unpopular, by the way. I think like Texas has probably, if not the most, one of the most restrictive and sort of politically unpopular bans in the country. And I mean, what this tells us is that unless the state is pretty clear about what they mean about that, this is a pretty vague and medically dangerous exception.

You know, leaving it up to doctors who already feel a strain about what they can do and are worried about their careers and, you know, facing criminal penalties is probably not the best way to have like an entire medical practice operate. And so, you know, it's depending on what a state does, this could be a very vague and unhelpful exception. And really, in some cases, especially for, you know, Kay Cox, not an exception at all, really, because she had to leave the state just like everyone else is doing. So I think it's a pretty interesting case study of what these exceptions to the abortion bans really, like how they really function. In terms of politics, it is highly likely that we are going to hear a lot more about this case. Already, the White House is weighing in.

The vice president has posted on X, that's the social media platform formerly known as Twitter, quote, While extremist elected officials in Texas claim to care about the health of women and babies, they are endangering the health, well-being and lives of women by denying them the care they need. The hypocrisy, the cruelty. I stand with women across Texas and throughout America. You get the idea. This is definitely not just a health care story. This is also a political story. And Ashley, more broadly, we have seen that the issue of abortion has been motivating for voters. Yeah. And I mean, if you look at ballot measures since the Dodd decision, since Roe v. Wade was overturned, it's pretty clear, like even in pretty conservative states like Kansas, Ohio, Montana is another good example. Strict abortion

laws like they are very unpopular and they have not done well. And in fact, I think a good example of this is what happened in Virginia. Republicans in Virginia had this sort of like trial balloon of like, let's see if the public likes or can sort of settle on this 15 week ban. And that was very unpopular. And, you know, this issue arguably handed over the legislature to Democrats away from Republicans. And I think it's really interesting that Republicans really seemingly haven't been able to sort of win the public on this. And I think stories like this are only, it depends how salient they remain right throughout an election. And that's always a big question. Well, Selena Simmons-Duffin, thank you so much, as always, for your reporting.

Thank you, Tamara. I'm glad to be here. And that's all from us today. We'll have more tomorrow. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. And I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.