The NPR Politics Podcast - The Alabama Election At The Heart Of The Voting Rights Fight

Episode Date: April 10, 2024

We go deep on Alabama's second congressional district ahead of a primary runoff there next week. The Supreme Court forced the state to redraw its congressional maps to bolster the rights of the state's Black voters, a win that surprised voting rights advocates after previous decisions by the high court curtailed other protects in the Voting Rights Act.This podcast: voting correspondent Miles Parks, voting correspondent Ashley Lopez, and political reporter Stephen Fowler.This podcast was produced by Kelli Wessinger and Casey Morell. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Listen to every episode of the NPR Politics Podcast sponsor-free, unlock access to bonus episodes with more from the NPR Politics team, and support public media when you sign up for The NPR Politics Podcast+ at plus.npr.org/politics.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Autograph Collection Hotels, with over 300 independent hotels around the world, each exactly like nothing else. Autograph Collection is part of the Marriott Bonvoy portfolio of hotel brands. Find the unforgettable at AutographCollection.com. Hi, this is Sarah in Greenfield, Massachusetts. I am making myself a grilled ham and cheese sandwich for lunch. This podcast was recorded at 9.55 a.m. on Wednesday, April 10th, 2024. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.

Okay, here's the show. Love the audio work on that. I legitimately almost forgot what time it was just from the sizzle. Like it distracted me. I haven't had breakfast yet. Oh, that's your stomach grumbling over there. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Miles Parks.

I cover voting. I'm Ashley Lopez. I also cover voting. I'm Stephen Fowler. I cover politics. And today we are zooming in on a single congressional district in Alabama. After the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Alabama's congressional map discriminated against Black voters, the remedy was straightforward. Draw new boundaries to create a second opportunity

for those voters to elect a candidate of their choice, a protection that was established in the 1960s by the Voting Rights Act. Today on the pod, we're going to see how that's going. Stephen, you've been looking at this new congressional district. Tell me what it's like. Yeah, so Alabama's second congressional district is this sprawling district that runs from one corner of the state to the other, Mobile on the coast all the way to Montgomery, and includes the Black Belt in between. And it was the result of actually the third time of redrawing Alabama's maps. After redistricting happened, there was a census in 2020, redistricting in 2021, a lawsuit was filed saying that it was discriminatory against

black voters, that it packed black voters into one district and spread them out across other ones. And so the court came back and said, okay, you need to redraw this map to be less discriminatory. The Alabama legislature refused. They came back again and said, no, we really mean it. You need to redraw these maps. And then finally, it resulted in a special master creating these new boundary lines that will be used for the 2024 election. Now, it's a nearly majority black district because there's a lot of different numbers of population percentages used to draw these in highly technical ways. But essentially, assuming normal turnout patterns and things like that, this South Alabama district should see black voters be able to elect a candidate of their choice, which will likely be a Democrat.

Because we should note that black voters make up roughly a fourth of Alabama's total population. But previously, under the first maps that were drawn, they would have only had the opportunity to elect one representative of their choosing. Is that correct? Yeah, one out of seven is less than 25%. I think the number is actually 27%. So this district boundary and these lines more accurately reflect the diversity of Alabama and where people live. And this is a big deal because obviously we don't know what the U.S. House is going to look like after the 2024 election, but presumably people are thinking that this could mean another Democrat coming out of Alabama. Is that right? Yeah. And so this will likely be a pickup for Democrats. Alabama currently has six Republicans,

one Democrat. They could go to five Republicans, two Democrats. So in the Washington sense, it's an important victory for Democrats. But my talked to people like Shalila Dowdy, who's a voting rights advocate and one of the plaintiffs in this lawsuit. And she said that representation means something different than, you know, who wins, who loses. It means a seat at the table. It means that we can expect our needs

and our wants to be taken into consideration when bills are being introduced and voted upon. I almost feel bad that I immediately went to the political ramifications, right? Because this is actually something a little bit more visceral, the idea that many voters in Alabama are now going to feel more empowered to elect a representative of their choosing. When you talked to folks, did you get the sense that there was an emotional response to this decision? Absolutely. Because, you know, Alabama and the South in particular has been ground zero for the fight for voting rights and the fight for black Americans to have voting rights. ended preclearance requirements, which meant that several states and jurisdictions that had racist voting laws had to get the federal government to clear any voting changes to make sure they

weren't discriminatory. And so, you know, Alabama, and particularly that part of the Black Belt, has had this key decades-long role in the fight for equal representation for Black people. Yeah. And I mean, the world of voting has never been the same since that Shelby versus Holder ruling. I mean, the Brennan Center has noted that voter participation among people of color has decreased. There used to be. We were getting kind of close to parity around the 2008 election. And since then, people of color are voting at smaller rates than they were then. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that places like Alabama, well, states across the country, mostly Republican led states have created more restrictive voting laws. And also, yes, I mean, congressional voting maps affect how people vote. If you are a voter in a district where this is a new neighborhoods to

you, new people to you, you are going to feel less inclined, especially if you feel like the voting power of people like you has been reduced from one year to the next, that's going to affect how you look at elections and whether you feel compelled to vote. So I do think like the ramifications of not just Shelby versus Holder has been really stark. But, you know, I think we are kind of in a different world when it comes to the voting patterns of people in the South right now. Well, and there had been this sense growing among election experts, right, Stephen, that this court was going to not be very friendly to the Voting Rights Act because of the previous rulings that had come out. Was this kind of a surprise to experts that they decided that

Alabama did need another district where Black voters would actually have a say? It was a surprise, Miles. I mean, the direction of the court and the direction of, I mean, I think Chief Justice Roberts said, you know, basically that like we've moved past this idea that there's discrimination in voting and there's discrimination in patterns and behaviors. And it was expected that kind of like, you know, we don't need the Voting Rights Act anymore because like we're better than that. And so people were bracing for the Supreme Court to kind of further weaken the Voting Rights Act in the immediate ramifications. It's not just Alabama that has seen these redistricting challenges be successful and kind of change the lay of the land.

Yeah. And just from like a technical aspect, I will say it's also very strange to get a ruling so close to elections. Like usually courts will not like to rule on maps so close to elections. I mean, not just like the fact that there's a runoff in Alabama later, but in election years, like this presidential election years, the courts tend to sort of wait it out just because they don't want to have any sort of like a political effect on an election with a ruling. I know I always feel bad for voters whenever there's big court cases like this that keep going back and forth and back and forth. Like I would be really confused if I was an Alabama voter right now. To that point, this isn't over. I mean, there's a trial in February 2025 over these maps that could mean that the lines will change once again and that

this majority black district, this probably Democratic district could go back to its old shape and ways. So it's very, very confusing. And so part of the representation piece, too, with the people that I talk to is getting voters engaged and paying attention to what's happening because they may show up to the polls and be like, I thought I was voting for such and such. Well, it's like, no, that's not your district anymore. Or people that could be discouraged because they're like, oh, it's a Republican district. I'm a Democrat. Like, I don't feel like I need to show up and vote.

So, like, there's multiple angles to this that goes beyond just the raw numbers of is it a Democrat? Is it a Republican? What's the delegation? What's the percentage of things like that? So, like, it's a very complicated story that is ever changing because of the way the courts act. All right. Let's take a quick break and more on this when we get back. This message comes from WISE, the app for doing things in other currencies. Send, spend, or receive money internationally, and always get the real-time mid-market exchange

rate with no hidden fees. Download the WISE app today or visit WISE.com. T's and C's apply. And we're back. And so we've had all of these fights over and over again the last few years over what this district was going to look like. Right now, there is a district that voters on Tuesday are going to vote in. Can you tell us about the election on Tuesday, Stephen? Who's running? What's at stake? Yeah, so this is a primary runoff, both in the Democratic side and the Republican side. There is no incumbent in this seat. Last month during Super Tuesday, there was the primary election. A ton of candidates from both parties ran. Also in the neighboring district, Alabama's first district saw a Republican member on member matchup where the more conservative Barry Moore defeated Representative Jerry Carl. But in this district, we've got two Democrats in the runoff,

two Republicans in the runoff. On the Democratic side, you have Shamari Figures, who's a Mobile-based candidate who his parents were lawmakers in the Alabama legislature. He worked in the Obama White House for a little bit and has strong family ties to the area. Facing off against Anthony Daniels, the Alabama State House minority leader, this gets to another interesting part of representation because Daniels lives in Huntsville, which is the complete opposite corner of the state. So talking with some of the people on the ground there, there was this sense that representation doesn't just mean electing someone who looks like you. They have to know the area and they have to be a part of the community to be able to accurately represent them. And then on the Republican side, you have Dick Brubaker, a businessman, former state senator, and Caroline Dobson. She's an attorney and political newcomer.

They're trying to get the Republican nomination. And one of the reasons this is important, Miles, is because this isn't a guaranteed victory for the Democrats. That's what I was going to ask is like, is this the way some of the coverage has been in the last few months? It feels like almost like a shoo-in for Democrats that this was going to play a huge role in who controlled the House. But you're saying that's not the case? Well, people have to show up and vote. And it's not purely a majority black district. It's nearly majority black, I believe about 48%

by some of the measurements, but people have to actually show up and vote. And so that's why the people involved in the lawsuit and other black voters that I talked to are motivated to get people to show up for this runoff and get people to show up in November because you still have to show up to vote to win. And so, you know, in an environment where people are motivated on both sides of the aisle and with a presidential race at the top of the ticket, it's no guarantee. Ashley, I feel like there, anytime there is a big court decision that affects one state, my thought always goes to, there's probably people in a bunch of other states who now their gears are turning on how this can impact them, whether they're thinking about bringing challenges themselves based on this. Do we know at all

what the ripple effects of this decision in Alabama means in other states, potentially in the South or anywhere else? Well, I mean, it's always a big deal when, especially the Supreme Court, makes a ruling like this because it does sort of signal where the court is standing on voting rights issues. Like, as we mentioned earlier, voting rights advocates across the country were pretty disillusioned with the fact that Shelby v. Holder was like a ruling that came down and that the VRA, the Voting Rights Act has taken quite a few hits under the Roberts Court. Not just to focus on that one ruling, but I think it is a sign that, you know, the courts at least are taking these kinds of cases seriously. And we're talking about

sort of what's called like racial gerrymandering, because for, you know, the courts have said time and time again, especially the Supreme Court, that they have like no interest in cases that have to do with sort of partisan gerrymandering. And that's a party drawing districts that favor their party. And because party and race are sort of commingled and inextricably linked in American politics the way they are, it's kind of harder sometimes to make sure there's no sort of like racial effect when these kind of lines are drawn. So I do think it is interesting whenever there is a case that is one, especially in the South, that it sort of upholds the voting rights of people of color, because a lot of times those cases get sort of bogged down in the, well, this is, you know, we were drawing maps that favor our party. Like, you know, there is no there's nothing illegal here, nothing to see here. So I do think it has at least that sort of impact. A case in point with the way the courts handle things, you know, look at Louisiana, where because of this Alabama ruling, there's an additional majority black district where voters there should be able to elect the candidate of their choice that should also see a case before the federal judge where the lawmakers added more majority black districts on paper, but did so in such a way that didn't actually change the partisan outcome.

So on paper, black voters have more representation, but they won't be electing any more Democrats because of it. So it really is dependent on where these cases are filed, when and in time. And so, I mean, it's a fleeting, you know, in many ways, it's a fleeting feeling. Yeah. And literally what courts, like what judges are in these courts, because I feel like I bring this up a lot, but the courts changed a lot, especially on the appellate level during the Trump administration. A lot of voting rights complaints going before courts in places like the Fifth Circuit, for example, they don't usually side with voting groups and voters of colors in those cases. They usually side with a sort of

Republican-led state. So it really just depends like where in the country you are sometimes. Steven, can you talk a little bit more about how campaigns, how this actually affects the political apparatus in Alabama? Because I did just pull up the map showing the district. It is big, and it touches a lot of different geographic areas, like you mentioned. And I just wonder if you are running a campaign or if you're a person who's trying to mobilize voters, how a map changing like this changes your strategy in terms of, are they having to rethink the kinds of voters they're trying to mobilize? How are they rethinking strategy? Well, you know, looking at the map, and I encourage you to look at the map

because it's fascinating to see the different shapes of the districts and how this works. You know, Mobile and Montgomery are two of the largest majority black cities in the country, and they're large urban areas. But Mobile and the Mobile Bay is a completely different vibe than Montgomery and the state capitol. And the rural black belt that areas, people that have completely different ways of life and priorities and things that you have to balance in a way that maybe is a little bit different than like, say, the congressional district where I live, which is almost entirely the city of Atlanta, which is almost the same type of people, the same type of needs, the same type of that. And so it's going to be challenging because what's good for Mobile might not be good for Montgomery. And what you need if you're a farmer in the Black Belt might not resonate the same way with somebody who lives in Montgomery. And so it does make things challenging because not only is it a

new district line, but you have so many different constituencies you have to deal with. And that also includes encouraging them to actually show up and vote. All right, well, we will be watching that primary runoff election on Tuesday and maybe hearing from you then, Stephen. Let's leave it there for today. I'm Myles Parks. I cover voting. I'm Ashley Lopez. I also cover voting. I'm Stephen Fowler. I cover politics.

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.