The NPR Politics Podcast - The Races Are In North Carolina, But The Politics Are National

Episode Date: October 26, 2022

North Carolina has a number of high-profile races that will help to determine control of Congress — but, as is the case in much of the country, local issues have taken a backseat to national fights.This episode: political reporter Deepa Shivaram, White House correspondent Tamara Keith, and congressional correspondent Claudia Grisales.Support the show and unlock sponsor-free listening with a subscription to The NPR Politics Podcast Plus. Learn more at plus.npr.org/politics Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Steven and Murphy in Seattle. We're listening to the NPR Politics Podcast, which is the best podcast. No, it's boring. No, it's really good. No, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring. It's really interesting. No, it's the best. Interesting, interesting, interesting, interesting.

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Grow-mops. It's 1.46 p.m. on Wednesday, October 26th. Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but we'll still be disagreeing about whether or not it's a good podcast. It's boring. Why is it boring? Because it is boring. No, that's not a good reason. I think it's really interesting. No. It's boring. Why is it boring? Because it is boring. No, that's not a good reason.

I think it's really interesting. No, it's boring. Ah! That was like an instant replay of a conversation that happens at my house at least once a week. I don't miss those conversations at all. I'm like, I love it. I love the energy. You know what?

Being a grown-up is not all it's cracked up to be. So I hear him. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Deepa Shivaram. I cover politics. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. I'm Claudia Grisales. I cover Congress. And voters are already casting ballots to choose the 435 voting members of the House of Representatives. But of all of those races, fewer than three dozen are competitive. And it's these few districts that will determine which party controls the House. You guys are both just back from reporting in North Carolina. And Tam, you were profiling one of those rare districts, which is a new one, thanks to redistricting in the state. So this is

an open seat. Tell me about where you were in the state and what did you hear? So this is North Carolina's 13th congressional district. It was drawn to be competitive in the redistricting. It is a 50-50 district, or more or less, very evenly divided in terms of the partisan divide. It runs from parts of the city of Raleigh through really fast growing suburbs out to a couple of rural counties. And that combination gets a really competitive race. Right. There's a big mix in all of that. And in this race specifically, who's running here? So the Republican candidate is named Bo Hines. He's 27 years old. He was a college football player and was president, former President Trump's chosen candidate, came out of a crowded Republican field. He describes himself as a MAGA warrior.

And I have to say, both of these candidates are sort of out of central casting. The Democrat is Wiley Nickel. He is a state senator who did advance work for the Obama administration. He's a defense lawyer in his other job, in his day job. He's trying to portray himself as the more moderate candidate or the more moderate choice. But he had a pretty liberal voting record in the state Senate. And it's interesting because this district opened up because House Republican Ted Budd left that district, the 13th district, even after it's been redrawn, but now, but he left that district and he's now running for U.S. Senate. But it is one of these open seats, which means that there isn't an incumbent and that increases the competitiveness. Right. And I wanted to touch on that because it's an open seat. You said it's a really competitive one, but is that breaking down because there are voters on either side who can be persuaded to vote red or to vote blue? Or is there just an actual even split here amongst Democratic and Republican voters?

Yeah, so this is a really fast-growing district, and the fastest-growing party registration is no party preference at all. But as I was talking to voters, it was mighty clear that they were voting against the other party, whichever the other party was. I set up outside of early polling places. So these are not just people who are thinking about voting. These are people who have already voted. And Jim Miller described himself as fiercely independent.

He told me he used to vote Republican. And now he says he can't see himself voting to send another Republican to Washington. Hell no to Beau. That is a tagline in one of the ads. Yes, I know. That's why I said it. But, you know, what qualifications does he have? Really, he's just a young guy. I think he's got a lot of growing up to do.

And then I talked to Ted and Judy White and they echoed that, too. This idea that, like, well, no way I could vote for a Democrat. Now, I have voted in the past for Democrats. Yeah. But not this time. Not this cycle. Not this cycle. No.

I asked Judy White what the issues were that were driving her. And, you know, it sounded very much like the campaign talking points that you would hear pretty much anywhere in America from a Republican. Inflation, schools, the wokeness of what's going on, that all of the people with the violence, everything's just out of control. It's interesting because I heard something similar in other parts of the state in North Carolina, and that was these voters repeating their candidates' lines, talking about issues that they were not dealing with directly, if you will, talking about crime on the border, and other issues that were more national issues

that Republicans are bringing as points to convince these voters to side with the GOP once Election Day comes. And Tam, talk to me about the candidates messaging in this district. Are they focused on these national issues as much as voters are? Much like the candidates are out of central casting, this campaign is sort of a prototypical campaign in a lot of ways. The Democratic candidate, Wiley Nickel, I interviewed him for this story, and he spoke about what was at stake in really stark terms. And this is a similar message to what you would hear from a lot of other candidates on the Democratic side. Democracy is on the ballot and the right to choose is on the ballot and is especially

important in this race. You know, I've, you know, served my state in the Senate. And on the other side, you know, we've got an election denier who says he's 100 percent pro-Trump. And I'll just say that Beau Hines did not make himself available to me for this story. His campaign declined to comment. I was, however, able to find other interviews that he had done to see what his position was on the 2020 election. And although he says Joe Biden got more votes than Donald Trump, he can't say, wouldn't say, was unable to answer whether Joe Biden won fair and square. And just to get to the messaging from Hines, it really is this good versus evil thing, much like Wiley Nichols is saying democracy is on the ballot.

Beau Hines describes this campaign as, you know, about like tectonic forces. This is more than just a political fight. This is spiritual warfare. It's good versus evil. And I think that you're seeing Republicans come together. You know, they're banding together and fighting back against what we believe is major overreach from government, which we believe is a failed administration that's caused complete economic deprivation in this country. And that was in an interview with CBS 17. All right, Tim, thank you so much. Let's take a quick break and we'll be back in a second. And we're back. Claudia, you were also in North Carolina, like you mentioned,

focused on that Senate race there. And this is a state that has elected only Republicans to the Senate since 2008. But this year, it's still fairly competitive. Walk us through the candidates on both sides this year. Right. The Republican, this is an open seat after the longtime Republican Richard Burr retired this term. This is his last term, leaving Ted Budd. This is the House Republican we were talking about earlier, who left that North Carolina 13th Congressional District open Open decided to run for Senate. So he is representing the Republicans. He's been in the House several years.

He grew up in North Carolina, played football there. He is campaigning very close to where he grew up on a farm. He talks about playing football and getting cheered on, but perhaps not cheered on as much as he is now, he says, as a candidate. On the other side, the Democrats are seeing Sherry Beasley running for the Senate seat. This is the former Chief Justice of North Carolina's Supreme Court. And so she's presenting a very competitive race for Bud. Many expected that he would run away with it, especially by now. But there have been polls earlier this year showing her within the

margin of error. Now, one theme I did keep hearing, however, is that Republicans break late. But right now, it looks like a close race. And zooming out for a second, I mean, of all the flippable Senate seats here or trying to maintain control, for Republicans, how much of a priority is this race? This is a seat they hold currently in a 50-50 Senate. If they do want to gain control of the Senate, this is stop number one. They've got to keep this seat. And so it's a huge priority for them to win this race. And you saw that in terms of the intensity of these national Republicans like Florida Senator Rick Scott, who heads up the National Republican Senatorial

Committee, and others like the chair of the Republican National Committee, Ronna McDaniel, coming down to make their pitch to voters directly that they cannot lose this race. And on the flip side here, Claudia, there have been some concerns that Democrats, meanwhile, aren't investing as much in this race. Sherry Beasley, like you said, has come much closer than expected. What is their campaign saying about that? They're focusing on the momentum they have and how close they are in terms of being within striking distance of perhaps pulling off an upset in this state because Beasley has motivated so many voters. I heard about this through Tam initially, how she has worked through churches to connect with a very key demographic, black voters.

And it's possible this key demographic, if they come out in record numbers, like say when we see these voters come out during a presidential election, that they will have a shot. So that's the focus. But at the same time, I keep hearing about how other states are sucking up all the oxygen in Senate races, Georgia, Pennsylvania, and not as much money is coming into the state overall when you look at previous races. Well, and I have to say there's like this pattern with North Carolina where the Senate race seems

like it might be close. And then in the end, it's not. And in recent history, the Republican has won. Exactly. It is lean Republican, according to Cook Political Report. That's something we continue to hear over and over. Now, early voting apparently is not as substantial as it is at this time when you look at comparative years, but it is a shorter window for early voting. So it's not such a great gauge right now. But that is a theme I heard that Republicans can break late. So we could see that,

like you said, Tam, this big advantage on come election day for Bud. And Claudia, tell me about the voters you spoke with, what issues are top of mind for them? Right. So it's interesting, I saw a similar trend to what Tam saw in her congressional race that she was covering. And that was voters kind of repeating the same lines that we would hear from candidates. For example, at the end of one event, I went to with Republicans. I talked to a voter, her name was Robin Bunting.

And she emphasized a lot of the same issues that the speakers at that campaign stop made, which was, it's the economy, it's the economy, it's the economy. And she talked about her struggles to buy, for example, meat these days. She only buys it when it's on sale, and she doesn't go out as much. I feel like I'm very fortunate, but we still make choices, you know, and cut back. It's bad, and we need to change.

Now, on the other side of that, however, I was surprised when I was at an event for Beasley in Charlotte. She was meeting with religious leaders there. And I met a security professional there, MD Atif Stokely. And he was telling me that, yes, he was aware of the costs. I asked him about that. But he said there's a bigger priority for him when he wants to vote for Beasley. We need someone who is from amongst us and who actually still believes in helping those that they represent. And so this representation talking about Beasley,

she is a historic nominee. She is the first African American woman to be nominated to this role to get to the U.S. Senate. And so that was something that I heard among voters that they were very aware of. And when I talked to others who were voting for her, they talked about integrity, and they would talk about the awareness about inflation and costs, but they kept coming back to that same theme was they want to trust who they elect to office. Claudia, how much did you hear about abortion? It's been an issue that certainly Democrats have tried to bring to the fore in both of these races and many around the country. What I heard was particularly Democratic voters as well, basically only Democratic voters and no party preference voters who are going to vote Democratic, saying that, yes, they're worried about the economy, but abortion is what is driving them, what made them show up early to vote. Yeah. So what I did see is that it wasn't as big of an issue as perhaps as it was maybe a few months ago. And it was interesting, for example, seeing Beasley talk

about it with religious leaders in Charlotte and just kind of that delicate line in terms of discussing how it has to be a reproductive right that women should be able to consider. And also, she had a very powerful campaign surrogate with her, Jim Clyburn, who also talked about reproductive rights as well. But in the end, when I talked to voters, and even Beasley herself said, people know that I need to get to the Senate and I need to address these high costs. Yeah, it's interesting because of Sherry Beasley being a more moderate candidate, how she's focusing on the economy versus abortion, where some more Democrats in less tight races

would be able to focus on that a little bit more. All right, we're going to leave it there for today. I'm Deepa Shivaram. I cover politics. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. And I'm Claudia Grisales. I cover Congress. Thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.