The NPR Politics Podcast - The Tiny Liberal Arts College At The Heart Of The Culture War

Episode Date: July 26, 2023

New College of Florida is a public college on the state's west coast with fewer than a thousand students known for its focus on sustainability and lack of traditional grading. Lately, it has become the primary target of Governor Ron DeSantis's effort to reshape higher education to better align with his brand of Republican ideology. He has banned public institutions from spending money on diversity, equity and inclusion programs and faculty have quit in droves.This episode: White House correspondent Asma Khalid, political correspondent Kelsey Snell, and WUSF reporter Cathy Carter.This episode of the podcast was produced by Elena Moore. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Additional editorial assistance from from Andrew Sussman. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Unlock access to this and other bonus content by supporting The NPR Politics Podcast+. Sign up via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Katrina from Sandy, Utah. I'm heading to my piano recital after my first year of piano lessons. This podcast was recorded at 1 10 p.m. Eastern Time on Wednesday, July 26th of 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but I'll still be taking piano lessons and teaching my kids you are never too old to learn new things. Thanks. Enjoy the show. That's super fun. I know. It's lovely. Hey there. It's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. I'm Kelsey Snell. I cover politics.

And we have got a special guest with us today, Kathy Carter. She's with member station WUSF in Tampa Bay, Florida. And we have got a special guest with us today, Kathy Carter. She's with member station WUSF in Tampa Bay, Florida. And Kathy, it is wonderful to have you with us. It is good to be here. So today on the show, we're going to dive into Governor Ron DeSantis' education culture war. We're going to specifically look at this key fight in the Florida governor's effort to reshape education. In particular, a small public liberal arts school on the state's west coast between Tampa and Fort Myers.

It's called New College. DeSantis has specifically targeted the school as an example of liberal bias in academia. And Kathy, I want to start with you because it appears the governor is trying to reshape education across the board, K-12 classrooms, all the way up to higher ed. What is he trying to do? Yep, you're right. Since becoming governor in 2019, Governor Ron DeSantis has really reshaped

education here in the state of Florida, both K-12 and in higher education. On the K-12 side, we have the Parental Bill of Rights, rolling back higher education. On the K-12 side, we have the parental bill of rights, rolling back higher education policies. There was a high-profile feud with the College Board over its African American Studies course, and this has been going on for several years now. Kathy, and you know, the state of Florida has been in the news again just in the past week or so with some changes to education. Can you kind of explain what's happening there? Yeah, the state just adopted a new standard for black history that was approved just recently. And that will be the way that African-American history is taught in the classrooms. It's supposedly to strengthen and enhance the safety and welfare of students

while protecting parental rights. That's what the State Board of Education would tell you. But there's been a lot of pushback on notions such as teachers are now required to include how slaves develop skills, which in some instances could be applied for their personal benefit. They're also to teach that there was violence between black people, not just the white people perpetrating violence on slaves. So, Kathy, let's talk about New College. Why is the governor specifically focusing on this small school? Well, probably, and this is what the Democrats would say, that it was easy. It's the smallest college in Florida's state university system. There are 12 public universities here in Florida.

New College of Florida is a very small liberal arts college. Its enrollment is just over 700 students. Very progressive as compared to some of the other schools. And this is why he decided that this would be his target to overhaul higher education here in Florida. During his inaugural speech in January, which ushered in his second term, he did vow to reign in what he called, quote-unquote, trendy ideology in higher education, and just days later, he appointed six conservative members to the new College Board of Trustees.

A seventh conservative trustee was appointed just a few weeks later by the Board of Governors, and he appoints College Board of Trustees. A seventh conservative trustee was appointed just a few weeks later by the Board of Governors, and he appoints the Board of Governors. So what exactly is being done there at New College? Right. So when the new Board of Trustees came in, the first thing that they did was fire the president of the college. It was a very popular president. The goal is to reshape this progressive college to a more conservative education model. It's being modeled on a Christian school out of Michigan called Hillsdale College. So since the new trustees came in, they've systematically got rid of the DEI office. They got rid of the president. They installed a former

Republican education commissioner who was an ally of Governor Ron DeSantis. And ever since then, there have been huge protests and approximately a third of the staff has resigned. So the concern is going into the new fall semester, which begins August 28th, they're not going to be able to hold certain classes because there won't be able to hold certain classes because there won't be professors to teach it. Can I ask a question? When you say that this is a progressive school, is it a self-proclaimed progressive school? How have they been defined that way? I think self-proclaimed is fair, but it does have a very large LGBTQ population. For 700 students, it's very large compared to other colleges. It is the Honors College of Florida. I think that the student body themselves are very happy to have classes that are going to teach classical studies.

In fact, they just asked for $2 million, the Board of Trustees, to create, quote-unquote, a freedom institute. And that is because the president of the college, Richard Corcoran, has said there's too much cancel culture here at New College and in Florida's public schools. So, Kelsey, listening to what Kathy's describing, it is clear that, you know, this is all part of a larger push by Governor Ron DeSantis. And what I wanted to ask you about is the sort of national politics of this all, because we saw Democrats pounce on the message of how slavery is being revised to be taught in Florida public schools. You saw Vice Presidentounce on the message of how slavery is being revised to be taught in Florida public schools. You saw Vice President Harris on this kind of rapid response duty. She was dispatched to Florida immediately.

It appears that Democrats think that the public or the politics are on their side on some of these issues. I think a couple of things are happening here. One is that DeSantis has been so clear in his campaign that he wants to make America like Florida. And that gives Democrats so much space to say the Republican Party, a potential nominee for the Republican Party, somebody who is viewed as a leader of this party, is moving away from the center of America. There's tons of polling out there that shows that the majority of voters don't agree with these types of changes. And for DeSantis himself, his popularity and his national profile has changed pretty significantly since he's been really out there in the public in this presidential campaign. His favorability ratings really dropped significantly over the course of the summer. And there's been this window that Democrats see as an opportunity to kind of go after the Republican Party in general because of the things DeSantis is doing.

All right. Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be back in a moment. And we're back. And Kathy, what is the end goal for the governor in these changes that he is trying to suggest here at New College, but also beyond New College? passed a sweeping higher education bill abolishing diversity, equity, inclusion initiatives. There are certain rules about what professors can teach now. There are some topics that aren't allowed. The reaction, of course, from higher education teachers here in Florida has been they just cannot believe this is happening. Penn America, which is a free speech advocacy group, said that Florida is the epicenter of educational censorship. Governor Ron DeSantis came into office for his second term with a clear majority of support from voters. He won that reelection campaign solidly. I mean, it seems like there ought to be something in his policies that resonates with Floridians. I mean, are these policies popular when you're speaking to people?

I think the jury is still out. Of course, he had a Republican supermajority to help him pass all of these bills. They sailed through the legislature. There were months of hearings and people protested. Everything passed. There's a very strong Moms for Liberty chapter in Sarasota, where New College of Florida is located. And we know where they stand on parental rights. But there's starting to be quite a bit of backlash. I think what happened is these rules came into place so quickly, and there were so many of them that people couldn't really keep up.

And they're just beginning to discover, oh, my goodness, there's a lot of changes in higher education and K through 12 education. So we are starting to see a lot of protests. We're starting to see faculty leave the colleges. We're starting to see families say, what about my parental rights? So, you know, the mood is shifting here. I'm thinking about abortion. These are moments where Democrats think that they can motivate their base by seeing action that Republicans are taking. In that sense, these changes in Florida really do give a concrete example of what they're running against. And in a lot of ways, that is useful not just in Florida or at the presidential level. But, you know, Democrats have been pretty

successful in nationalizing these issues and saying that this is who the Republican Party is in general. And I would anticipate you will see this become part of the campaigns, even for Senate seats all the way on the other side of the country. You know, Kelsey, we've been talking about Florida on today's show, but it's not just Governor Ron DeSantis. I mean, this criticism of critical race theory and so-called woke politics has a sizable following in the Republican electorate. And you're seeing other candidates kind of try to outshine each other and become the standard bearer on these cultural issues. And I guess my question is, how can any of them really become the culture warrior

when in the race you have Donald Trump, who was kind of the OG culture warrior on these issues? You know, I talked to a Republican strategist recently who said that they're watching all of these other candidates for president trying to figure out what Trump's secret sauce was, what made him popular. And they're all trying to seize on different parts of it. And, you know, it's been successful to varying degrees. But as you mentioned, not particularly successful at all. The varying degrees are all pretty small. And so it'll be interesting to see how Trump responds to each of these things. If Trump decides he wants to absorb some of these policies that DeSantis is pushing, that could be a completely different story. All right. Well, let's leave it there for today. Kathy Carter of member station WUSF,

thank you very much. Thanks for having me. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. And I'm Kelsey Snell. I cover politics. And thank you all, as always, for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.