The NPR Politics Podcast - Top Biden Labor Economist: Boosting Black Women Benefits Everyone

Episode Date: April 6, 2021

Black people, in particular Black women, are historically among the last to recover from economic downturns. Janelle Jones, the first Black woman to serve as the top economist for the Labor Department, has a policy approach she calls "Black Women Best" that she hopes will rectify that. What can be achieved over Republican objections remains to be seen.This episode: congressional correspondent Susan Davis, White House correspondent Ayesha Rascoe, and political reporter Danielle Kurtzleben.Connect:Subscribe to the NPR Politics Podcast here.Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Listen to our playlist The NPR Politics Daily Workout.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio station.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Brandon from Denver, Colorado. I'm currently riding the chairlift up Beaver Creek Mountain. This podcast was recorded at 2.07 p.m. on Tuesday, April 6th. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but I'll still be enjoying my time skiing in Beaver Creek and at Vail Mountain. Okay, here's the show. I didn't know there was still skiing in April. I'm ready for summertime. I don't know about these people who are still skiing. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Susan Davis. I cover Congress. I'm Danielle Kurtzleben. I cover politics. And I'm Ayesha Roscoe. I cover the White House. And Ayesha, you just finished reporting out a story about a Biden official

named Janelle Jones. Who is she and why did you decide to profile her? So Janelle Jones is the top economist at the Labor Department. She is the first Black woman to ever hold this role. I was interested in her because I was already following her on Twitter. I try to follow economists and people who have interesting things to say about the economy because, you know, I cover that sort of thing. And she when she got the position, I wanted to know more about her, you know, especially since she's the first black woman in this role. And I found out that, you know, she has this, you know, this framework for looking at the economy that I found really fascinating. And Aisha, you talked to Janelle Jones just after we got this really fantastic jobs report of sort of blowing the past jobs reports out of the water, at least for the

in the recent past. And that seems like something that might be really good news for a post-pandemic recovery. But I'm curious, what did she have to say about this? Well, it was a jobs numbers that anyway, it was over 900,000 jobs added. So that's a number that any administration is going to brag about. So they were certainly happy about it. But Jones had an interesting take on how to dig into the details of those numbers. Yeah, it's a big day. We saw, you know, almost a million jobs added last month. We haven't seen numbers like that since August. We saw the unemployment rate going down, just really good, strong job growth. Most of that came from the leisure and hospitality sector, where we know low-income workers are disproportionately represented, where black and brown women are overrepresented.

So, you know, we love to see we'd love to see it. So it was overall a really, really strong report. Do you and I know you mentioned black and brown workers in the leisure, you know, sectors and things like that. We know that the Black community in particular was hit pretty hard by the coronavirus and the economic fallout from that. Right now, where do things stand for Black workers first? And then also, obviously, where do things stand for other marginalized communities? I'm so glad you asked. If you hadn't asked, I would have brought it up. Right. So overall, we saw a strong report. But, you know, whenever someone tells me a headline number or tells me the economy is doing really well, my immediate follow up question is for who and who is being left behind and who is not included. And so, yeah, we saw, you know,

we saw the overall unemployment rate decrease. It did decrease for black workers, but it's 9.6%. If the overall unemployment rate was 9.6% for all workers, we would be running around with our heads on fire. That is crisis levels of unemployment. That is just millions of workers suffering from an economy that's not working for them. And I think as we start to see overall strong numbers, as we start to see the economy recover, we really want to think about an inclusive recovery.

So I think the lesson that I hope we've learned from the last recession was for years we talked about how the economy was growing. It was the longest expansion on record. Everything was great. Black women didn't recover their unemployment rates until 2018, right? So it wasn't a recovery for Black women. It wasn't the longest expansion for Black women. They were still suffering from recessionary conditions. And I think that's really what we want to keep an eye on right now. What she cited there about the black unemployment rate being so high, something that is sort of stunningly constant in economics and the American economy is that the black unemployment rate tends to be roughly twice the white unemployment rate. But that's in good times and bad. It is a an upsettingly constant thing. And so that points to broader structural issues that clearly when like cyclical issues, when the economy improves, that doesn't improve that. So this is something that is always around good times and bad. And of course, now is not the last time they had to do stimulus and government intervention during the financial crisis back, you know, more than a decade ago. She references it there about the recovery that

how long it took for Black women. In this recovery plan, are they mindful of that? Is it designed to be more targeted to the people that are most often left behind? It does seem like they tried, especially with like the child tax credit, which in particular will cut down on child poverty, especially for black and brown children, like that's going to have, it's only for a year, but it will have a very big impact, like the child tax credit, the direct payments targeted to people that don't make as much and that making sure they all get these checks. So in that way, there were these things that did seem very focused on helping people who otherwise have not always benefited from, say, grants or government loans or things of that

nature. So it does seem like they tried to target it. But the problem with all of this is dealing with those structural issues that Danielle was talking about and whether you can actually make a long-term difference. All right, let's take a quick break. And when we get back, we'll talk more about Aisha's conversation with Janelle Jones. On NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast, we talk about movies, music, and more. Like why the Great Pottery Throwdown is a comforting binge watch.

And a look back at some of Chadwick Boseman's essential performances. All of that in around 20 minutes every weekday. Listen now to the Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast from NPR. And we're back. And we were just talking about who the recovery efforts are reaching and whether it's reaching everyone it needs to. And Aisha, that is something that Jones best, as a way of looking at the economy. And I was fascinated with this framework that she's talked about because, you know, as we said earlier, a lot of times you think of economists, you think of, you know, older white men. And this is her way of kind of flipping the usual narrative.

So Black Women Best is really, you know, a framework and an ideology that I that I try to center when I think about how the economy is working. I think it's a good way to measure how the economy is working, who it's working for. It's a good way to think about, you is working, who it's working for. It's a good way to think about, you know, will this reach marginalized populations? Will this policy, will this targeted program, will these checks in the bank, will these shots in arms? Because I think, you know, if you center workers who are usually left behind, and it's not, you know, black women are often left behind in these types of measures, but if you center those workers, then we can make sure that everyone else is doing well. You know, the way the economy is set up, the way our institutions

and systems are set up, if Black women are doing well, if Black women have, you know, economic security and stability, it really does ensure that all other types of demographics and groups are also doing well. Is it really possible for all boats to rise? You know, how does that, I guess, or can you explain to those who would hear this and think, oh, well, if you center a group, that means they'll do well and everyone else won't? Yeah, I think, you know, I think it's definitely possible. And also, we've seen it before. There was a time in our economy where we saw workers moving together, where we saw, you know, as the economy was growing, workers were also reaping the benefits. The problem is for the past 30 or 40 years, we have not done that. Like

we have seen worker power and worker benefits and worker wages really shrink over the past generation. And so I think, you know, folks think maybe that's what's possible, but it's not. And I think President Biden is rolling out a plan to make us, I mean, Kat, I hate to say it because it does sound like a commercial, but President Biden is rolling out a plan to truly build back better, not to where we were pre-pandemic, not to where we were four years ago, but where we were a generation ago when we were a country that really centered and invested in public institutions and the middle class. And I wanted to get into what that looks like as a policy.

Obviously, the American Rescue Plan, you know, just, you know, passed. Now there's this, you know, the president rolled out this infrastructure plan, which will also invest in human infrastructure. But I guess, can you talk about from your position, from your perch, how do you translate centering marginalized groups into policy? Like, what does that actually look like? Yeah, you know, something I'm really excited about in the infrastructure plan is this idea of targeting communities who have been kind of dissected by, you know, highways just like being put right through their neighborhoods. Like that is a restorative policy that will bring, you know, all sorts of benefits to those communities. You know, when we talk about, you know, replacing all of the lead pipes,

we know that lead pipes are found disproportionately in black and brown neighborhoods. That is helping black and brown children. And so I think it's, you know, I think it's all of the things that the jobs package is doing is really centering and thinking about workers of color, low income workers, you know, really trying to do things that will help the protections and benefits of the middle class and kind of rebuild it since it has been, you know, hollowed out over the past generation or so. It's almost like we need to rework our vocabulary when we're talking about this infrastructure

bill, because it's definitely not in the traditional mode of an infrastructure bill. Danielle, we were talking about how it's really more about reimagining how the economy works overall. Yeah, I mean, there's so much in this infrastructure bill. And also the language around it is very much clearly about, yes, we are fixing roads and bridges and also increasing broadband access, for example, and, not just to improve the economy, but to make sure we are boosting marginalized communities. And Aisha, tell me if I'm right on this, actually. Every time I think about this infrastructure bill, I think, you know, there's clearly stuff in this. And I suppose I just I just said it myself, infrastructure bill. Every time we talk about this economic stimulus bill, I think,

you know, yes, there is stuff in here to help recover from the pandemic. But this seems like they're taking the opportunity of there's an economic crisis. We are going to change very basic things about the economy or at least try to bolster basic things about the economy. Well, and that's sort of what she seemed to be touching on and what they want to do. They don't want to go back to the status quo. And she said outright, I will not be satisfied if the economy returns back to where it was in February 2020 before the pandemic hit. They want something more dramatic and more fundamental. Now, that is a very tall order. And we should be clear that this is what they are saying. This is what they're pushing. That's a tall order. Yes. And it will be up to, you know, you know, us

reporters and the public to see whether that actually plays out. But that's what they are talking about exactly, Danielle. It is something that is fundamental. And at the same time, Danielle, this is not a proposal. Again, it's just a proposal. They still have to write it into legislation. There's a lot of hurdles facing this plan. And there's no guarantees that everything that Joe Biden wants he's going to get because he's facing what looks like to be almost unanimous Republican opposition to this bill. Yeah. And that's putting it mildly when you say hurdles. Yes, this is a two trillion dollar plan, at least. And there is a second part that the Biden administration has promised is coming as well. And it's not just Republicans

who are saying they will balk at not just the stuff in it, but the price tag itself. But there have been some more moderate Democrats who have said that they are a little bit hesitant also about spending yet more money. And by the way, since we have an economy that was able to add 900,000 jobs last month, that might signal that the economy is doing well. And that might be an argument, if you're a Republican or if you're opposed to this plan, that maybe we don't need this plan. All right. I think we're going to leave plan, that maybe we don't need this plan. All right. I think we're going to leave it there for now, but we'll be back in your feeds tomorrow. I'm Susan Davis. I cover Congress.

I'm Danielle Kurtzleben. I cover politics. I'm Aisha Roscoe. I cover the White House. And thanks for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.