The NPR Politics Podcast - Trans Americans Face Patchwork Of Differing Laws

Episode Date: April 11, 2023

As many Republican-led states pass legislation restricting or banning gender-affirming care for minors and adults, both the Biden administration and the Supreme Court have begun to weigh in. We look at the current state of affairs in Utah, which passed a law on the topic earlier this year. This episode: White House correspondent Asma Khalid, senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro, and KUER politics reporter Saige Miller.The podcast is produced by Elena Moore and Casey Morell. It is edited by Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Research and fact-checking by Devin Speak.Unlock access to this and other bonus content by supporting The NPR Politics Podcast+. Sign up via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Sarah, and I am halfway up Mount Monadnock in southern New Hampshire, where it's very windy and there's still some spring snow on the ground. I decided just this moment to become a monthly sustaining member of my local NPR station, WBUR, outside of Boston. And it was so easy to do it, I did it right from the trail. I got to put my mittens back on now. Okay, this podcast was recorded at 1.05 p.m. Eastern Time on Tuesday, April 11th. Things may have changed by the time you hear it. Okay, back on the trail for me. Here's the show for you.

Ah, that's pretty cool. I know. We appreciate that list of support. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And today on the show, we're going to look at the rapidly changing map of conflicting rules for transgender people in the United States. Republican-led legislatures throughout the country have been restricting access to gender-affirming medications and services for minors experiencing gender dysphoria. In fact, 14 states have made moves to restrict gender-affirming care for minors. Others have made moves to prohibit trans students from participating in high school sports on teams that represent their gender identities. The Biden administration has even waded into this debate, proposing its own rule that attempts to sort of thread the needle.

20 states have laws regarding sports participation on the books. And one state that's enacted new legislation just this year is Utah. And Sage Miller from member station KUER is joining us now from Salt Lake City. Hey, Sage, it is great to have you on the show. I'm so excited to be here. So let's start with a basic question, Sage, it is great to have you on the show. I'm so excited to be here. So let's start with a basic question, Sage. What does the legislation in your state of Utah do? So the piece of legislation that was signed by Utah Governor Spencer Cox during the first

two weeks of Utah's legislative session bans gender-affirming surgery for trans youth, including top surgery specifically, and it also bans hormone therapy and the use of puberty blockers for trans youth, including top surgery specifically. And it also bans hormone therapy and the use of puberty blockers for trans youth. There's also some other stipulations in the law that says if providers do give these kinds of treatments to trans kids, they could face felony charges. There's also a stipulation that says health care providers in the state would have to get a certificate in order to prescribe hormone therapy to transgender patients. So right now, the state and medical professionals are all really trying to grapple with what happens next. Sage, Utah is no doubt a Republican state. It votes for Republicans in presidential elections.

So how are people reacting to this new law going into effect? I've spoken to a handful of specifically families that have transgender minors in their life, and they were gutted. And Sue Robbins, who is on the Transgender Advisory Council for Equality Utah, which is an LGBTQ rights nonprofit here in the state, essentially says the way to fight back against this legislation is to be at the forefront of these conversations. If we are not out there where people meet us and get to know us, then all they're going to have to learn from is all the rhetoric out there against us. Domenico, I want to bring you into the conversation. I know that the recent NPR poll we did as a network asked about some of these issues. Do you have a sense of how the broader public looks at this?

When it comes to Republicans, you know, they're able to really kind of gin up their base with this kind of talk. You know, two thirds of Republicans in the NPR PBS NewsHour Marist poll said that they supported criminalizing providing gender transition-related medical care for minors. That's very different. Democrats, it's the opposite. Two-thirds say that they oppose that kind of thing. Independents, 56 percent, say that they oppose criminalizing, but they appear a bit fungible. They're kind of open to the message because Republicans have been campaigning on this for the better part of the last year or so. And you've seen the numbers change where now 43% overall are in support of criminalizing when that was just 28%

in 2021. So it is something, Domenico, that Republicans are using as a cultural wedge issue. And we see this in just what's happening at the state legislative level. We see this from some of the rhetoric we see, you know, at a governor level even. Is there any chance of that backfiring based on what you're seeing in the polling? You know, there's the chance that Republicans go too far with some of this. I mean, because still, you know, a majority oppose this kind of criminalization. But, you know, there's also the other side of this, where 63% in an NPR Ipsos poll said that they were opposed to allowing transgender women and girls to compete on teams that are aligned with their gender identity. Just a quarter supported that.

All right, we are going to talk more about the issue of sports in a moment, but first, let's take a break. And we're back. And last week, there were two developments. We're talking about the issue of sports here. The Supreme Court allowed a transgender girl to continue running track on the school sports team in her state of West Virginia, while a lawsuit over a state ban is underway there. And then also last week, the Biden administration intervened with its own idea, sort of compromise, if you will. You know, it proposed a rule that would essentially bar outright blanket bans on trans students participating in sports based on their gender

identities, but they would allow for schools to make individual bans in certain cases. And Domenico, that seems like a very fine line to walk. I mean, I describe it as a compromise, but maybe it's a compromise that means no one is happy. Well, I mean, it was a very long document that the Department of Education put out, 116 pages or so of trying to change or massage this regulation about this that's related to Title IX, which is supposed to be about protecting students' equal opportunity to participate on male and female teams consistent with Title IX. Now, obviously, that puts transgender students in a bit of a gap. And this has become a huge flashpoint in our politics. And it is a fine line that they're trying to draw.

The Department of Education actually makes two distinctions when they talk about whether or not to include children based on their gender identity and whether or not they can play on a team or not. They say that, one, it has to be substantially related to the achievement of an important educational objective, and two, to minimize harm to those students. And that is a tough line there. To those students, Domenico, being the student or the other students on the team? It's to the students who would participate, who identify as transgender. So minimize harms to students whose opportunity to participate on a male or female team consistent with their gender identity, if that would be limited or denied. I mean, in some ways, this seems like an attempt to find a third way as we

head into a political election year, in which this issue is, I would say, certainly on the Republican side, but maybe you could even say on the Democratic side, bubbling up as a political, cultural wedge issue, right? I mean, I don't fully understand the third way that they are proposing, because there will be exceptions for schools to make individual bans. And then, I mean, are those individual bans determined by each individual school? And that just feels like a completely hodgepodge system. Well, part of why they did this is because of these conflicting court rulings. You know, they cite cases in Indiana, Idaho, and as you mentioned, the case in West Virginia, where they say different things. And this basically comes down to this regulation that was created in 1975 that says that some sex-related distinctions in sports are permissible as long as a recipient ensures overall equal athletic participation opportunity

regardless of sex. Well, what do you do in this case? And Republicans have certainly been able to take this issue and create something out of this politically and try to make it a wedge issue, but they do risk, as we've said earlier, going too far in some of these cases. I want to ask you one follow-up there, though, Domenico, because you mentioned this polling earlier that suggested that there is a larger percentage, and I forget the exact number, it was over 60 percent, who don't think that this is fair. So presumably there's a chunk of independents, maybe you could even say Democrats, who seem to have reservations. Definitely. You know, it was two-thirds almost who said that they were opposed to allowing transgender women and girls

to compete on teams that align with their gender identity. You know, and that loops in a lot of Democrats as well. What we saw there was a pretty even split. You had a plurality. 46% support trans female athletes' right to compete on women's and girls' teams, but 41% opposed it. So this is something that's starting to kind of cross over in some of the typical political lines. Independence, you know, three to one, they opposed trans female athletes' right to compete. So, you know, this is one of those issues that we're also seeing in our polling where there's a big split between parents and parents with children who are under 18, and people who aren't parents. And, you know,

interestingly, the people who are parents are more supportive of actually criminalizing some of these gender transition related medical services. So Sage, I want to bring you back on the conversation. You know, we mentioned earlier that there's a law that the governor there in Utah actually vetoed, but the legislature overrode his veto when it dealt to the issue of sports participation. So that law is in effect there in Utah, correct? Cox had with the bill was that it was introduced and passed by lawmakers in the state on the very last day of the 45-day legislative session in 2022. So there was no talk of it. And then all of a sudden, it just sweeped on by. And Governor Cox had a really big problem with that. He says it didn't allow time for debate. It didn't allow time for interaction with the public. And it didn't allow for feedback. And so he was pretty for interaction with the public. And it didn't allow for feedback. And so he was pretty upset with how the legislative body went about passing the law that banned

transgender athletes from participating in school sports. And specifically, they were targeting female transgender athletes in high school. And he also said that there's definitely going to be litigation in the state and that it's going to cost a lot of money. And Cox also said that out of the thousands of high school students in the state, there's only four registered trans students playing school sports in high school, and only one of them is a transgender girl. And so he just didn't necessarily think this law was compassionate. And that's part of the reason why he said he needed to veto this bill. However, the legislature did come back, overturn his veto. And what ended up happening next is it went to court. The plaintiffs, which were three transgender athletes,

proved that the law caused significant distress by singling them out and not allowing them to play these school sports. And now the law is on hold. And it has been since August, and there hasn't been any movement. And so I do think on the national level with President Biden's move to not allow these blanket bans, plus the Supreme Court decision, I think that it may just stay in limbo for a while. And now what we're mostly looking towards is, is there going to be a lawsuit filed against the recent ban that doesn't allow transgender folks, transgender minors specifically, to receive gender-affirming care? All right. Well, let's leave it there for today. That's a wrap. Sage Miller of KUER,

thanks so much for joining us on the podcast. Thanks so much for having me. And we will be back tomorrow. But before we go, a heads up to anyone who entered our NPR Politics Podcast Plus giveaway. We informed our randomly selected winner last week. If that was not you, we apologize. But say thank you nonetheless for taking the time to enter. And we hope to do something like this again soon.

I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And thank you all, as always, for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.