The NPR Politics Podcast - Trump Defends Syria Withdrawal: 'It's Not Our Border'; Republicans Push Back

Episode Date: October 16, 2019

President Trump is defending his decision to pull U.S. troops out of Syria, saying, "They have a problem at the border; it's not our border," and that "they've got a lot of sand over there. There's a lot of sand they can play with." This episode: political correspondent Asma Khalid, political reporter Tim Mak, and national security editor Phil Ewing. Email the show at [e-mail]. Find and support your local public radio station at npr.org/stations.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hey there, it's Scott Detrow, one of the hosts of the NPR Politics Podcast. A quick note before we get started, we are doing a live taping of our show in Washington, D.C. So if you want to hear what we think about the latest political news, or if you've just ever wondered what it's like to see a podcast tape live, join us at the Warner Theater on November 8th. Information and tickets at nprpresents.org. Hope to see you there. Hi there. My name is Rebecca and I'm a freelance photo editor at CNN. I'm currently sitting in my car on October 16th after a shift and I'm about to listen to the NPR Politics podcast recap of the CNN New York Times debate. This podcast was recorded at 3.21 p.m. on Wednesday, October 16th.

Things might have changed by now, and hopefully within the hour I'll be asleep. All right, here's the show. Yep, that podcast was earlier today. We had two podcasts in one day because it's been one of those kind of days. And if you want to recap on the most recent Democratic debate, that's earlier in your podcast feed. But hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast and I am Asma Khalid. I cover the campaign. I'm Tim Mack. I cover Congress. And I'm Phil Ewing, National Security Editor.

And just a bit ago, the House overwhelmingly passed a resolution to oppose President Trump's decision to pull troops out of Syria. That resolution was passed 354 to 60. That means Republicans and Democrats alike are angry with the president over this move. Tim, why don't you start by just explaining to us what are they mad about? So they're concerned that the withdrawal of troops will lead to the slaughter of America's Kurdish allies by Turkey, while also empowering America's adversaries, Iran, Russia, and maybe even lead to the resurgence of ISIS, which when it did have and control territory was in and around this region. Here's what Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said about this decision earlier today. Well, I certainly have told him

personally as well as publicly, I disagree with the decision. The House resolution that passed overwhelmingly today basically says that Congress opposes the president's policy on withdrawal from Syria and basically accuses the White House of not having a clear or specific plan for the enduring defeat of ISIS. Now, the Kurds, who are the U.S. allies in that region, they lost 11,000 fighters while fighting alongside American troops as they sought to defeat the Islamic State. And that really rubs a lot of folks on the Hill the wrong way when the president appears to have abandoned them, essentially. Here's what Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, he's normally a staunch ally of the president. Here's what he had to say to reporters this afternoon. The president's decision here, I think, is the biggest mistake of his presidency. And I will not ever be quiet.

We're downstream of a very long and complicated and bloody story about Syria. This began with the Syrian civil war, which led to chaos, which led to the creation in northern Syria and northern Iraq of this terror group that Tim was talking about, the Islamic State. The United States intervened first in Iraq and then in Syria under President Obama. And for the last several years, American forces have been in northern Syria, helping the Kurds that you talked about fight the Islamic State and kind of get to a place where they might be able to do their own security. The president, however, views that as wasted effort for the United States. He doesn't want American forces to be in harm's way there, dealing with the Russians, dealing with the Syrians, dealing with Iranians, dealing with the Turks. And so he's taken this decision to withdraw those American forces. When he did that, Turkey's military came across the border into Syria and began attacking because it views some of the Kurds that have been operating with American forces as terrorists. And it wants what it calls a security buffer or a special zone inside of Syria, outside its border. And that's led to death and destruction and chaos there.

And Phil and Tim, it seems that the president has not really been affected that much by the criticism that he's received both from Republicans and Democrats. In fact, he's been doubling down, defending his position, essentially saying that this is a problem that's really not our problem. Our soldiers are not in harm's way, as they shouldn't be, as two countries fight over land. That has nothing to do with us. And the Kurds are much safer right now, but the Kurds know how to fight. And as I said, they're not angels. They're not angels. I mean, so this is essentially in line with President Trump's isolationist worldview, which is that there are a whole host of problems all over the world,

and it's really not the business of the United States to be the policeman going around and regulating these. I mean, it's certainly a change from U.S. foreign policy of the past, but it's been a stance on a whole host of issues. Correct, and the reason you're seeing establishment Republicans like Senator McConnell, like Senator Graham and others react so strongly to this is how clear and bright a break this is with the consensus that they believed in for so many years, especially after the 9-11 attacks, where the philosophy of the United States was there cannot be ungoverned spaces in places like Afghanistan or Africa or Syria,

where terrorist groups might be able to take root because they can threaten the West and the United States. That's what undergirded American strategy for so long. What President Trump is saying is we're out of that business. We're not going to do that in northern Syria to try and constrain ISIS. These regional powers can fight it out, but it's not our business as the United States to continue to do that. And you see, the thing is that Republicans, many hawkish Republicans, particularly in the Senate, and you'll see quite a bit of them in the House of Representatives as well. They just don't see eye to eye with the president on this issue. The president did not come up through kind of your typical Republican foreign policy circles. And while most Republicans are hawks who believe that if you leave an area, someone else will step in to fill that vacuum.

And what they're fearing right now is that what's happening with the withdrawal of U.S. troops is that Russia is filling the vacuum, Syria is filling the vacuum, Turkey is filling the vacuum, and Iran is filling that vacuum. So, Tim, I do have a question, though, about kind of the broader picture of President Trump's argument. And that is this notion that Americans should innately care for the Kurds. And I don't mean to sound kind of to sound crude here, but there are a whole number of conflicts all around the globe. You can look at Central America, you can look at India and Pakistan and Kashmir, and the United States is not going around calling for military intervention in every situation. And there is an argument to be had

that public opinion folks have questions about this idea of why is the United States, as President Trump might say, dealing with these endless wars? Well, Republicans and Democrats who are supportive of a more hawkish foreign policy would say this is not necessarily about stepping in to benefit the Kurds, although that is a nice side benefit, but that it's in America's strategic interest to have a presence here, because if the United States does interest to have a presence here, because if the United States does not have a strategic presence here, America's adversaries will. That if you do not have troops in this area, ISIS will be allowed to reform and regroup, and then perhaps plot other attacks against the West.

So, Tim, as we've talked about, U.S. troops have been withdrawn from the northern border between Syria and Turkey. What's now been going on in that region? So in the time since, Turkey has announced that it is going to be invading this area of northern Syria. We've seen reports of atrocities occur. We've seen reports that jihadists, ISIS members have escaped from their holding cells where Kurds were keeping them prisoner. And we've seen a deal being made between the Syrian regime and Kurds in northern Syria in order to kind of forestall further Turkish movement in this area. Right now, it's been a brief military conflict. And we've seen more than 100,000 people displaced from where they live. So there's really a lot of unrest in the region

now. And that's why Speaker Pelosi, along with Republican leaders, are headed to the White House to discuss a way to get Turkey to agree to a ceasefire. And we'll talk about that after a quick break. Support for this podcast and the following message come from Babbel, the language learning app designed to quickly get you speaking a new language within weeks. Babbel uses speech recognition technology and interactive dialogues, so you can perfect your pronunciation and accent in 14 different languages, including Spanish, French, Italian, and German. Try it for free and select the language of your choice at B-A-B-B-E-L.com

or download the app. Babbel, speak a new language with confidence. Think of NPR's Life Kit as that friend who always has great advice on everything from how to invest to how to get a great workout. We bring you tools to help you get it together. So listen and subscribe to NPR's Life Kit, all guides to get all of our episodes all in one place. And we're back. And Speaker Pelosi and some Republican leaders are headed to the White House to talk about Syria. Tim,

what do we know about what they're trying to accomplish here? Well, of course, the parties to a ceasefire would include Turkey, right? So the negotiations at the White House are really about how to pressure Turkey in order to get them to stop its military actions in northern Syria. One of the ways that have been proposed is to impose really stringent sanctions against the Turkish economy. And there are a number of efforts right now in both the House and the Senate in order to propose bipartisan sanctions against Turkey. One example is the sanctions being proposed by Senators Van Hollen and Graham, and that would target the Turkish energy sector, would prohibit U.S. military assistance to Turkey, and would bar Turkish leadership from coming to the United States. It would also be a law which the president would have to enforce. And unlike, you know, any executive order, it couldn't of the United States, a member of NATO. And so this seems like a really tricky situation where, you know, you're not just dealing with an ally of the United States that needs to be protected. The folks who are being accused of actually killing off Kurds at this point in time are the Turks. And Turkey is an ally of the United States as well. And it was also an ally with the United States and the other

nations that were fighting against the Islamic State before we got to this phase of this conflict. As we talked about, we're downstream of a number of years of very complicated interplay in the region and involving some of these global powers, including Russia. American warplanes used to take off from an Air Force base in Turkey to attack Islamic State positions in Syria. They've gotten out of that business because of these tensions that have been taking place between and among the various powers involved. But you're right, it's very difficult. And one way that the president believes is the correct way to resolve that tension and

that difficulty is by basically giving ground to Turkey's position. The president has decided the Kurds are going to be okay on their own, he believes. And he had a phone call with Turkey's president, President Erdogan, in which they talked about this arrangement. The president pushed back on a characterization from a reporter today that he gave a green light to this Turkish military incursion. He said he opposed it, but he also said he wasn't surprised that it took place because he expected Erdogan to invade. The Turks have been talking about that for some time. And so whether he gave a green light actively or passively, the president facilitated what we're seeing there. For them, this is a feature, not a bug,

because again, he wants these American forces to come out. We also know that Vice President Mike Pence is planning to head to Turkey to speak with Turkish leader Erdogan. What do we know about what they're actually planning to discuss? That is a great question, because as you heard Senator Graham point out on Wednesday, the president's comments in public about this Turkey situation with Erdogan have basically taken away any trade space that Pence has to ask the Turks for anything. What the president said was, yes, I knew Erdogan was going to do this incursion. I'm not crazy about it, but what are we going to do? We're going to pull our forces out of there because this isn't a problem anymore. This is a dispute, as he characterized it, between Turkey and Syria and with some of these other regional powers. And so if you're Mike Pence and you land in Ankara and you have to talk with the Turkish government,

what are you going to ask him for? What are you going to say the position of the United States is, having had these comments in Washington from the president about how he's basically sanguine about everything that's taken place here? I don't know that anyone knows what Pence can possibly ask for and what the Turks could agree to, given that the president has said, again, this is what he wants. He's going into this with his eyes open. And this is the outcome that he envisioned. All right. Well, that is a wrap for today. And a reminder that very early this morning, we taped a podcast breaking down the key moments from the Democratic debate last night. You can check your feeds for that. We'll be back again tomorrow. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the

campaign. I'm Tim Mack. I cover Congress. And I'm Phil Ewing, national security editor. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.