The NPR Politics Podcast - Trump Embraces Autocratic Language

Episode Date: December 21, 2023

The former president continues to recite his greatest hits on the campaign trail, along with adding some new autocratic language. His words are drawing criticism from many, but on his social media platform, Truth Social, he has the base to support it. This episode: White House correspondents Asma Khalid & Franco Ordoñez, and extremism correspondent Odette Yousef.This episode was edited by Erica Morrison. It was produced by Jeongyoon Han and Casey Morell. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.Unlock access to this and other bonus content by supporting The NPR Politics Podcast+. Sign up via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the Trump campaign. And I'm Odette Youssef. I cover domestic extremism. Former President Donald Trump is the frontrunner to be the 2024 GOP presidential nominee. He has not participated in any of the Republican primary debates, and his rallies are not yet a mainstay of cable news. But if you've heard his speeches lately, you have probably noticed he's been using increasingly autocratic language. Today on the show, Trump's dark rhetoric on the campaign trail

keeps getting seemingly darker. Franco, you have covered Donald Trump when he was in the White House and also now as he kicks off this reelection campaign. And he has made his stance on immigration very clear. He wants to finish building the wall. He wants to have what I would say is like a version 2.0 of the so-called Muslim travel ban. He wants to expand that. And, you know, some of what we're hearing does remind me of echoes of his 2016 campaign. I remember back in 2016, he used to tell the story of a snake. I don't know if you

remember the story. Who has heard the poem called The Snake? So I have it. Does anybody want to hear it again? You sure? Are you sure? This woman found the snake. It was a sick snake. She nursed the snake back to health. And then eventually the snake gives her this fatal bite. Silly woman said the reptile with a grin. You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in. It was a story that likened refugees to animals, to poisonous snakes, essentially.

I'm curious if what you're hearing now feels fundamentally different than that. I mean, he continues to read that snake poem to pretty big fanfare from the audience. I mean, he's using some, you know, some say the greatest hits of the past, but he has kind of ramped up the language as well. And, you know, particularly as you noted earlier, the autocratic language in ways that are different. It's not just vitriolic, but it's autocratic language.

And it's kind of the way he's, you know, talked about some of the words that he's using that have really drawn comparison from experts and scholars and even the Biden campaign to former strongman in the past. I mean, here he is just recently, just this weekend in New Hampshire. You know, when they let, I think the real number is 15, 16 million people into our country, when they do that, we get a lot of work to do. They're poisoning the blood of our country. That's what they've done. They poison mental institutions and prisons all over the world, not just in South America, not just the three or four

countries that we think about, but all over the world. They're coming into our country from Africa. That phrase poisoning the blood, Franco, it's not one that I've heard him use before about immigrants. It's it's a darker turn of phrase, I think, is fair to say than we've heard from him before. And it's not just that. I mean, Trump's casting this election as, you know, quote, our final battle. And he's talking about retribution. He's putting this election in very apocalyptic terms. You know, that's just one example. I mean, a big difference from, you know, the previous campaign is that it's not just attacks against outsiders, against migrants, against Muslims.

In this campaign, many of the attacks, many of the sharper attacks, are actually against political opponents right here in the United States. We pledge to you that we will root out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country. I mean, he's talking about Americans. I mean, Trump is suggesting that U.S. officials, political enemies pose a greater threat to the United States than, say, countries from Russia, China, and North Korea. I mean, he went on to state that the threat from outside forces is far less sinister and dangerous and grave than the threat from within. I mean, it's, it's, again, it's that kind of language that is drawing these alarming comparisons. And Odette, you've been following

what Donald Trump is saying on social media posts on his platform, Truth Social. We should remind listeners that that's the site Trump launched after his old Twitter account was suspended in January of 2021, following the January 6th attack on the Capitol. And is what you're saying on Truth Social fundamentally in sync with what Franco's describing from kind of spoken rallies? Or are you hearing and seeing a different message online? No, Asma, I mean, one thing that people who've been studying Trump's activity online and his rhetoric offline as well will tell you is that his persona is the same in person, online. And that is actually one of the things that they believe his base appreciates about him, that no matter where they go, they're getting the,

quote, authentic Donald Trump without any sort of polishing up or reframing of his message to suit a particular audience. You know, it's interesting because what we found when we analyzed his posts were two things. First of all, that, as you mentioned, the language is getting darker. And then the second one is just that the amount of activity has really climbed over the last six months or so. So the content of those posts shine some light on why that may be. First of all, a lot of posts making digs about other Republican presidential hopefuls, and also lots of posts taking digs at President Biden. So, you know, this increase in activity may be a reflection of just the campaign

season kicking into gear. But another major theme of the post has been the many court cases that he's gotten tangled up in in the last several months. So lots of posts that are disparaging and targeting people that are involved in the prosecution or the handling of those cases. And increasingly so as this legal pressure on him is building. Is he receiving any sort of backlash, criticism from users on Truth Social? You know, I'm thinking back to when he was very active on Twitter and it was this kind of public square and differing opinions. So when Trump said something that was controversial, people would out him in a way. Is that happening on Truth Social?

Well, as you mentioned, Asma, you know, Truth Social is his platform. So, you know, it's got limited reach. But the people who have signed up for those accounts are that that is a Trump crowd. And that's very different from the audience that he was reaching with his activity on Twitter before. So, you know, when Trump is posting things that suggest that, for example, retired General Mark Milley should face death for his dealings with China, you know, he's playing to his crowd on Truth Social. You know, the former president has always used rather contentious language,

at least since he has been, I would say, in the political space. You both have given us some examples of how it's different, used rather contentious language, at least since he has been, I would say, in the political space. You both have given us some examples of how it's different. But I want to drill down on that a little bit more, because I think we're so used to Trump making controversial statements that I want to understand why you both are saying this time is different and what we're hearing now is different. Well, we're hearing him use words like warfare and retribution this time around. You know, he's talking about the possibility of World War III if he's not reelected. And he's talking about this election in terms that suggest that if the election doesn't go his way, it could be the final election that this country sees.

You know, people that I've spoken to have been following his language say that even within the context of what he said before, this is darker. And Asma, I just want to add that, you know, there's a portion of the electorate of Americans who are kind of hungry for that message. I mean, we've reported on polls and findings that show that, you know, a lot more Americans are open to a leader who is willing to break the rules, break laws, in order to make change that they think is right. And not only that, more Americans are open to violence being used in order to, in their words, or at least in the words of these polls, to save the country. All right. I've got a lot more questions for both of you. So stick with us. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be back in a minute.

And we're back. And earlier, Franco, we talked about how the Biden campaign has very vocally criticized how Donald Trump has been speaking about immigrants in particular out in the campaign trail. Have you heard any rebukes from fellow Republicans about how Trump has been talking? And just referring to the poisoning the blood of our country comments, I mean, I think it speaks a lot that the response from Republicans, if anything, was pretty tepid. Governor Ron DeSantis talked about not really knowing what he meant. You had other leaders who totally were silent on the controversy. I think the strongest, perhaps, kind of response was from Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. He kind of made a comment about his wife saying that, in his words, strikes me that didn't bother him when he appointed

Elaine Chao Secretary of Transportation. And he's referring specifically to his wife, Elaine Chao, who was in the Trump administration. And an immigrant. And an immigrant. You know, I think it just shows what kind of position Republicans are in. I mean, Trump has, you know, turned many of these things into a litmus test that no one can go against him or else they're going to face a response from the Republican base. And, you know, so many of these leaders have gone on the defensive.

So I've got a question for both of you. You know, when you hear language like this, it seems like Trump is clearly trying to court his loyal base of voters. But the bigger question I have is, you know, ultimately, he's got to try to appeal to a broader range of voters to win a general election. And do you get the sense that this language is helping him or has the potential to help him politically? So, you know, I think we need to think about how the electorate has changed since Trump ran, you know, in 2016. We now live in a reality, as Franco mentioned, where an increasing proportion of Americans and even a majority polls show of Republicans believe that violence is maybe necessary to save the country. And so this is rhetoric that is

increasingly okay with many voters, Asma. You know, Trump, when he was in office, he helped to elevate the political influence of a certain subset of Christian nationalists who believe that the only route to achieve what they dream of, which is biblical governance over society, the only route would be through him as leader. There is also another group that seeks authoritarianism, and that's the QAnon crowd. You know, these are people who believe a conspiracy theory in which Trump would vanquish forces of evil if he's reelected. And interestingly, you know, since he has moved his online activity to Truth Social, we've seen evidence that he is increasingly trying to engage with that subset of his base. I spoke to Kayla Gogarty about this. She's with Media Matters for America. So by August 1st, we had found that he had reposted QAnon promoting accounts on Truth Social over 630 times since he started using Truth Social actively in April 2022.

And that far outpaced how much he had been amplifying those sorts of accounts when he used Twitter. And I think that that increase really speaks to Trump's continued use of his platform, his social media platforms to pander to his base and to more extreme elements. You know, so I don't think it's a mistake, you know, that Trump is using this kind of autocratic language, Asma. You know, authoritarianism is what some of his base want. And these were some of the people who showed up for him on January 6th and were willing to participate in that day's events to keep him in office. And, Franka, you're covering the campaign. Do you get the sense that this type of language is helping him? I mean, it doesn't appear that it's hurting him in the polls. I mean, the one thing you can say about Donald Trump is that he knows his base. I mean, he's a marketer.

He knows how to use words and he knows how to use words as a weapon. I mean, one of the reasons his rivals haven't been able to get any traction is because the stories have always been largely about him. The questions at debates have been largely about him. He knows how to control the narrative, and he does that through, in many ways, through this kind of language and this type of, you know, stoking of the fire. When he talked about being a dictator for a day at a town hall in Iowa, I mean, it was one of the biggest applause lines. I mean, his supporters loved it. For many of Trump's supporters, Trump's, you know, outrageous language is another sign of how he's not a politician. That's what draws them to him so, you know, intently.

All right. Well, on that note, let's wrap for today. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the Trump campaign. And I'm Odette Youssef. I cover domestic extremism. And thank you all, as always, for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.