The NPR Politics Podcast - Trump Enters Not Guilty Plea In 2020 Election Subversion Case

Episode Date: August 3, 2023

Former President Donald Trump, appearing in federal court in Washington, D.C., said he was not guilty of federal charges alleging he conspired to overturn the 2020 election results. The judge has set Aug. 28 as the first hearing in the case and said that Trump does not need to appear. Trump has agreed not to discuss the case with any witness.This episode: political correspondent Ashley Lopez, White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez, and national justice correspondent Carrie Johnson.The podcast is produced by Elena Moore and Casey Morell. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Unlock access to this and other bonus content by supporting The NPR Politics Podcast+. Sign up via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Support for this podcast and the following message come from the NPR Wine Club, which has generated over $1.75 million to support NPR programming. Whether buying a few bottles or joining the club, you can learn more at nprwineclub.org slash podcast. Must be 21 or older to purchase. Hi, this is Tiffany in Gainesville, Florida. I am doing nothing exciting and I am nowhere special. I'm just at my house avoiding making dinner. This podcast was recorded at 518 Eastern Time on Thursday, August 3rd, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it. Okay, here's the show. That sounds delightful. Yeah, I hope tomorrow I can be doing what Tiffany's doing today. Yeah, fingers crossed. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast.

I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics. I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the White House. And I'm Carrie Johnson, national justice correspondent. Donald Trump entered not guilty pleas to the four charges he faces over his conduct around January 6th and the 2020 presidential election. That happened just an hour or two ago in a courtroom in Washington, D.C. Carrie, why don't you start off? Why don't you tell us what happened? Sure. The former president entered about 10 minutes before the proceeding was supposed to

begin from a back area of the courtroom. He had on his kind of typical blue suit and long red tie and white shirt, and he appeared pretty animated. He was talking back and forth with his lawyers, leafing through documents as he waited for the magistrate judge to show up. And when she did, she basically gave him a roadmap of the proceedings. Trump stood up, swore an oath, and said he would plead not guilty to all four of these felony charges that include conspiracy to defraud the United States and conspiracy to obstruct a proceeding of Congress and conspiracy to deprive people of their voting rights. And Trump otherwise was pretty quiet. There was a lot of back and forth between the prosecutor, Thomas Windham, and one of Trump's

lawyers, John Lauro, with respect to how quickly things should proceed. And in fact, this is a vignette, I think, that really captures what will happen with this case moving forward. The magistrate judge gave these both sides three options for dates for the next hearing. The special counsel's office picked the first option, the first earliest date, and Trump's lawyers picked the last possible date. And that is the way this is going to go. And so we're going to see when that next hearing happens on August 28th, when the judge in this case sets it for trial. But until then, we're going to be waiting for some court papers on both sides about the extent of the evidence and how long each side may need if the trial does go forward. Yeah. And I wonder if you could take us back, though,

to what happened today. And can you paint a picture of what the environment was like at the courthouse, which I should say is just a few miles away from the Capitol? Not miles. When I sit in the cafeteria of this courthouse, I see the Capitol. So it is very close. It's just down the street. And you know, Ashley, that's basically the scene of the crime on January 6, in many ways. Many Washington DC police officers are in and out of this courthouse all the time in uniform, because they're testifying in cases against the rioters who beat them up on January 6. And so it's all very fresh, even though it happened over two years ago.

The environment was placid inside. There was a very heavy security presence. There were police officers on horseback. There were barricades. There was yellow U.S. Marshals tape outside. People started lining up 24 hours in advance to get into this courthouse for this historic proceeding. But once you got inside, things operated relatively smoothly. And the clerk's office made sure that reporters had some access if they wanted to their laptops so they could file as I did while the proceeding was going on. Well, you know, you had mentioned that it was pretty quiet in there. But I wonder, did we hear any additional remarks from either President Trump or the special counsel today at all? You know, Jack Smith, the special

counsel, did show up in the courtroom. He sat only 15 feet or so away from the defendant, Donald Trump, but they didn't really engage with each other much. Smith didn't say a word. The main person who did the talking for the government was a prosecutor, Thomas Windham, who basically said that this case, like all cases, would benefit from regular order. In other words, treat this defendant, even though he was the former president of the United States, like any other defendant. Trump didn't say much other than his name and his age, 77, and to say pretty firmly, not guilty when he was asked how he pleaded to these four felony charges. Trump's lawyer, John Lauro, did most of the talking and seemed to signal that they want a lot more time to review what they think is going to be tons of evidence in this case,

both hard copy papers and electronic files. You know, we did, though, hear from the former president after the hearing. He actually spoke from the tarmac at Ronald Reagan National Airport. This is the persecution of the person that's leading by very, very substantial numbers in the Republican primary and leading Biden by a lot. So if you can't beat him, you persecute him or you prosecute him. We can't let this happen in America. You know, I'll just note that he is leading his Republican rivals by quite a lot. But as it relates to his race with Biden in the polls, the most recent ones are that they're neck and neck. And actually, Carrie, can I ask you,

is there anything you could talk about like Trump's body language or Jack Smith's body language? Any eye contact? I mean, I think there's just so much interest in on that and on any interaction whatsoever. Well, I wish I could tell you something really dramatic, but friends, it really was not. It was not like they were staring daggers at each other or frowning or whatever. These men both knew, obviously, that lots of eyes were on them, both the people lucky enough to get in the courtroom and then the people in the to get in the courtroom and then the people in the media room and then the members of the public who came just to see a moment of history. They did look at each other. It seemed as if Trump looked at Smith more than Smith looked

back at Trump, but there was no noticeable or heated interaction that I could observe. Yeah. And Franco, I wonder what you make of the former president showing up in the courtroom to begin with, because he was not required to be in the courtroom. He could have appeared via Zoom, which is something that's allowed in this court. But he was there anyway. a critical, integral part of his argument to return to the White House. And I don't want to give the impression that he's delighting from being prosecuted. At the same time, he is not running away from it. His campaign is not running away from it. In fact, they are embracing it. And you can see that in the coverage today. I mean, there was there was a camera inside the motorcade with along with Trump traveling to the courtroom and then back to the airport. They were sure to have cameras at the airport when Trump made his remarks. I mean, this is part of the M.O. for Donald Trump. I mean, in some ways, I would have been surprised if Trump wasn't there or if he did not have some type of media presence around him. All right. We're going to take a quick break. More in a second. from Carnegie Corporation of New York, working to reduce political polarization through philanthropic support for education,

democracy, and peace. More information at carnegie.org. And we're back. Carrie, you mentioned that the next hearing for this case is at the end of this month. I wonder what you're going to be looking out for until then and also what we can expect after that. What's next in this whole process?

I'm sad to say that most of court proceedings are boring papers, arguments on paper back and forth. In this case, it's not so boring because of the allegations involved and the nature of the case against the former president of the United States. But we're going to get paper estimates from both sides, both Trump's lawyers and the special counsel's office, of how long they think it'll take them in terms of trial days, if and when this case does go to trial, and basically a sense of scope of some of the evidence here. You know, Trump's lawyers are saying it could take them a long time, maybe many months to review evidence. But the prosecution seems to say that as soon as a protective order

is entered in this case, in other words, an order that would prevent Trump and his lawyers from winging out to the whole world certain materials that are under the scope of this prosecution, that DOJ is happy to start exchanging a lot of information with Trump's defense relatively soon. And I guess it's also worth noting that, like, in this timeline, we could see yet another indictment because there's other cases that are still ongoing, right? There's two things, Ashley. One, in this indictment of the former president, this 45-page indictment, there are six people referred to as co-conspirators, not by name, but a lot of them are attorneys. And none of those people have been charged with a crime.

There's an open question about whether the special counsel intends to charge them. And then, of course, in Fulton County, Georgia, to the south, there's a very active grand jury investigation there of the former president and his efforts to lean on state election officials and others to find votes for him in 2020. And, Franco, you know, the former president made a campaign speech after the last federal indictment. And I wonder if you're expecting that again. No, I mean, we did talk about earlier. We did hear from the former president at the airport, but he is not expected to give a campaign speech today. He is expected, though, to speak tomorrow and Saturday. He's going to be traveling to Alabama and South Carolina.

And I anticipate he will be very much talking about this case. And I think you can pretty much predict many of the things that he's saying because he has said them at earlier rallies. And even today, he's been talking about it on social media, you know, blasting the Biden administration, blasting the special counsel, Jack Smith, calling it an unfair venue. Actually, there was one line in the social media post today that I thought was particularly interesting because it was kind of a play on something he has been saying a lot. And, you know, the original line is that, you know, they're not coming after me, they're coming after you,

and I'm standing in their way. He's kind of adjusted that. Today in social media, he says that he wasn't going to Washington to be arrested. He said he's kind of adjusted that. Today in social media, he says that he wasn't going to Washington to be arrested. He said he's being arrested for you. So it's a little different, kind of little play. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if we hear that line in person this weekend. All right. Well, let's leave it there for today. For more on Trump's legal strategy, check out the podcast Consider This, available wherever fine podcasts are posted. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics.

I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the White House. And I'm Carrie Johnson. I cover the Justice Department. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.