The NPR Politics Podcast - Trump Says He Won’t ‘Rule Out’ Sending Troops To Venezuela

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

President Trump says he won’t “rule out” sending troops to Venezuela, and over the weekend, the world’s largest aircraft carrier arrived in the Caribbean Sea. We discuss why the United States has amassed such a large military presence in the region, and what reasons the Trump administration might have for targeting Venezuela specifically.This episode: voting correspondent Miles Parks, White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez, and Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman.This podcast was produced by Casey Morell and Bria Suggs, and edited by Rachel Baye.Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.Listen to every episode of the NPR Politics Podcast sponsor-free, unlock access to bonus episodes with more from the NPR Politics team, and support public media when you sign up for The NPR Politics Podcast+ at plus.npr.org/politics.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Keeping up with the news can feel like a 24-hour job. Luckily, it is our job. Every hour on the NPR News Now podcast, we take the latest, most important stories happening, and we package them into five-minute episodes, so you can easily squeeze them in between meetings and on your way to that thing. Listen to the NPR News Now podcast. Now. Hi, this is Tony in San Diego.

Nine months ago, I shattered my leg in a motorcycle accident. Today, I cycled 100 miles for to raise money for pancreatic cancer. This podcast was recorded at 105 p.m. on Tuesday, November 18th, 2025. Things may have changed since the time this was recorded, but I will still be incredibly thankful for the doctors, nurses, family, and friends, and more specifically the VA, who taught me how to walk again this year. Wow. Have a great day.

Let's go. Man, that is awesome. I just got amped up, just listening to that. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting. I'm Tom Bowman. I cover the Pentagon. And I'm Frank O'Donioz. I cover the White House. And today on the show, an intensifying pressure campaign against Venezuela.

The United States has now killed more than 80 people and strikes on boats in the Caribbean and the East Pacific Ocean. And President Trump says he has not ruled out the possibility of. of sending troops into the country. I don't rule out that. I don't rule out anything. Franco, there is a lot to unpack here. What do you make of what we heard there from the president and where this is all headed?

On the one hand, he's continuing to threaten more strikes on Venezuela, but he's also talking about potentially speaking directly with Nicholas Maduro, the Venezuelan leader. And that does seem to suggest the possibility of a diplomatic path to diffuse tension, a potential off-ramp. But, and I do think this is a very big butt, while he's saying those things, you know, he's also parking an aircraft carrier in the Caribbean

with so much military hardware, and as we often say and often hear, actions speak louder than words. Right. I mean, the largest aircraft carrier in the world, right? Tom, I mean, walk us through exactly the military presence that is being amassed in the Caribbean right now. Right.

The USS Gerald Ford, you're right. largest aircraft carrier in the world arrived, and it's been accompanied by at least 12 to 15 or more surface ships as well as destroyers, battleships, an amphibious assault ship with 2,000 Marines aboard. I doubt very much you'll see troops on the ground, however, because that's just, I don't think anybody wants to head down that road again after Iraq and Afghanistan. But clearly, this military buildup is probably the largest we've seen since the Cuban missile crisis in 1962. Now, what they're going to do, are they going to mount land attacks? Are they going to go after the drug cartels? Are they going to try to take on the Maduro government? We don't know

at this point. That's what I guess I'm searching a little bit for how unprecedented this is in terms of this massive military buildup, these strikes on boats killing more than 80 people. The president basically talking openly about wanting regime change. You've been covering this a lot longer than I have. Have you ever seen anything exactly like this? Well, we do see a military buildup as a prelude to either going into a country with regime change, right? We saw it, of course, with Iraq. We saw it with Manuel Noriega, the dictator in Panama back in 1989. And in those cases, they basically said, it's time to leave. And in neither case with Saddam Hussein or with Noriega, they were going to leave quietly. So there were an invasion in both. And they were in a

invasion and both were overthrown. So again, is it saber rattling or is it something, as we say, more kinetic, actually attacking Venezuela? Franco, what does the White House say is the justification for going after these boats in the Caribbean Sea? They definitely say it is drugs. And they say that there's a lot of drugs coming from Venezuela. And then when they talk about that, they'll also talk about Colombia. But look, Trump has also made it very clear that immigration is a part of this. He has repeatedly said that Maduro and Venezuela are sending people from Venezuela to the United States. He's used the word invasion. Trump has made it very clear that immigration is absolutely a part of this. Now, they also say that, you know, killing drug dealers is part of America first. So they're trying

to make a justification for what they're doing. What about the drugs? This has now been going on for months. Is there been any evidence that that is actually what these strikes are aimed at? Or that's what boats were carrying? Well, it's hard to say at this point. There's been very, very little evidence presented to Congress about these alleged drug boats. Where are they coming from? What's on board?

Are these people actually narco-terrorists, as they say? So we don't know. And also, is this performative? You're not going to stop drugs coming into the United States by taking out 20-21 boats. So what is this? And again, we just don't know. And also, there's a question of illegal killings here. First of all, you're not at war with Venezuela, number one.

Number two, these boats are not a threat. They're not shooting at U.S. service members, right? So a lot of experts say this is illegal, what's going on here. But again, as I keep saying, are you going after the cartels, are you going after the Maduro government or both? We still don't know at this point. All right. Let's take a quick break and more on all of this in just a moment.

And we're back. And we've been talking about a massive military buildup happening right now. now off the coast of Venezuela. And I want to take a step back with both of you and just look at exactly why the Trump administration and President Trump himself are so focused on Venezuela and its leader, Nicholas Maduro. The White House says this is about saving American lives. And they say killing drug dealers, their words, saves American lives. You know, you can talk all about the legal justification, is it legal or is it not legal? I'm just saying this is what the White House says. I will also say that I do not think you can ignore the history that Trump has with

Venezuela. I mean, for the first four years of his first administration, Venezuela was a big part of his foreign policy. He went to tremendous links to try to get Maduro out of Venezuela. His national security advisor at the time, John Bolton was a big part of that effort. You know, they supported a coup against Vince 12, supported another leader, invited that leader, Juan Guaido, to the state of the union address. This was a significant effort by this administration. It was a significant focus. And they did not succeed. Maduro is still there. So I do talk to experts who say there could be a sense of unfinished business. And I think it's important to note that a number of these boats that Trump says who's heading to the United States were not heading to the United

States. They're in the Caribbean, the semi-submersible that they attacked. And there were a the survivors here. I was told by the Pentagon that that was on a heading to Europe where a lot of these drugs go in the Caribbean. So that's number one. Number two is a lot of this is cocaine, of course, right? Cocaine is not the drug. That's not fentanyl, basically. It's not, exactly. It's not fentanyl. And during the campaign, Trump talked about immigration. He talked about fentanyl. We will stop fentanyl. This is not doing anything to stop fentanyl, which is coming from Mexico. The last thing here that I'll note, I guess, is that the world does widely consider Maduro to be an illegitimate leader, that his last election was widely considered right to be manipulated in his favor. And I guess I wonder, does that play into this at all in terms of President Trump's desire to be seen as somebody who is kind of upholding free and fair democracy?

You know, I would say that, yes, there are a lot, a lot of questions about Nicolas Maduro and how he's elections. And widely, you're absolutely right. It was not seen as a fair election. That said, I think there are more concerns about the strikes and the legality in the strikes that you have actually allies, including the UK and Canada, kind of pulling back from the United States on this issue, not wanting to share intelligence, for example, because they do not want. want to take part or be seen as a contributor to these strikes, which the citizens of their countries are very concerned about. No, that's right. There are concerns from some of the allies. I was told that the Brits, who have a really good relationship overall with the United States, they were requested by the United States to provide some intelligence by the United States. The Brits declined because they didn't like what they saw down here in the Caribbean.

And they said it was against sort of their foreign policy what they were saying. Wow, so seeing a lot of uneasiness about this from some traditional U.S. allies, are we seeing any of that uneasiness from other politicians in the United States? I'm just thinking about Congress. What are we hearing from members of Congress about all of this? Clearly, Democrats are really concerned about this. They want the Trump administration to go to the Hill and get authorization to do this. Trump has brushed aside the War Powers Act, which requires a president in hostilities once they use U.S. troops. After 48, IOS, you have to go to Congress. And then you have 60 days for this military mission, and then you can extend it another 30 days. The Trump administration has said, we don't have to use the War Powers Act because no one is really shooting at American forces. So we don't need that. And it's important to note that during the Libyan campaign against Muammar Gaddafi back in 2011, President Obama used the same rationale. He said, there's no threat to U.S. forces, so therefore you don't have to invoke the War Powers Act. And it's not just Democrats.

You've had Republicans like Rand Paul, who has spoken. out very aggressively on this issue about these killings and saying the feeling like they are illegal and not correct. That said, the pushback on this has not been as strong as like some other issues that we've talked about on the podcast, such as the Jeffrey Epstein case. Well, thinking about the military buildup here, I'm curious because I'm kind of hearing a little bit of a contradiction in terms of like if the Trump administration is saying that American troops are not being threatened currently, and that you, Tom, think that it's unlikely that American troops are going into Venezuela anytime soon. What is with the military buildup, I guess? Why is

the United States sending such a massive military presence to the Caribbean? Again, I think it's saber-rattling. At most, it will be basically attacking Venezuela itself. But again, we don't know at this point where this is all heading. I mean, look, you know, most recent presidents have been very reluctant to put any boots on the ground, and I think that's unlikely. That said, there is some precedent for Trump and doing targeted strikes. Trump did a targeted strike in Iran on the nuclear facilities. You've also seen Trump make targeted strikes in other examples, particularly in his first administration.

So I would not discount that potential there. And certainly the firepower is in the Caribbean for that. But I do agree, and certainly the experts I speak to, absolutely see certainly a pressure campaign with that amount of firepower. are in the water. And I think it's important to note that the CIA has a mission, a covert mission as a president announced, which is now overt because he announced it. And likely in this situation, what you're seeing is they're probably reaching out to the military, either Maduro's military or retired military, to see who can take the helm, along with Maria Machado, the opposition leader, if Maduro leaves. But that's an important point to look into, that if the CIA's on the

ground. Traditionally, this is what they would do. It's so interesting. I feel like President Trump campaigned so hard on the idea of getting the United States out of foreign conflict. Franco, how does everything that we're seeing here and even the other strikes you mentioned in other places, how does that square with his campaign messaging? Yeah, I mean, one of those campaign messages was also attacking the drug trade and doing every single resource to attack the drug trade. He has said over and over again, the tools and resources that the United States have used to combat drugs have not worked. So he is taking it to another level. This is, you know, the argument that the White House makes. They also say that it fits in with the America First policy, as I mentioned earlier, because killing drug

dealers saves American lives. I think there is a lot of questions about that. As Tom mentioned, some of those boats aren't even headed for the U.S., but they're heading for Europe. You know, I would also say there are some Florida politics. involve you. Marco Rubio, who is Secretary of State, who's from Florida. You have a lot of the administration or in Southern Florida. And I think the Florida politics is something that you can't necessarily discount either because of how important they are to Republican politics. And in Southern Florida, this issue is huge, whether it's Venezuela or Cuba and Nicaragua. There's a big push to rid the hemisphere of socialists and, as they would say, communist leaders.

All right. Well, I think we can leave it there for today. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting. I'm Tom Bowman. I cover the Pentagon. And I'm Franco Ordonez. I cover the White House. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.