The NPR Politics Podcast - Trump To Deliver First State Of The Union

Episode Date: January 29, 2018

President Trump is set to deliver his first State of the Union on Tuesday night. This episode, host/congressional correspondent Scott Detrow, White House correspondent Tamara Keith and editor correspondent Ron Elving preview the president's address. Email the show at [e-mail]. Find and support your local public radio station at npr.org/stations.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, my name is Liliana Lodola. I'm six years old and I'm from Oklahoma, Illinois. This podcast is recorded at 1250 Eastern on Monday, January 29th. Things might be changed by the time you hear it. Here's the show. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. That time to time where the president delivers the State of the Union is here. President Trump gives his first State of the Union tomorrow night. It's a high-profile, scripted moment for a generally unscripted president. Trump is expected to hit on many of the same issues he's been talking about since he was a candidate, the economy, immigration, trade,

national security. After that, Massachusetts Congressman Joe Kennedy will give the Democratic response. I'm Scott Detrow. I cover Congress for NPR. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. And I'm Ron Elving, senior correspondent. Tam, Ron and I are both wearing tweed jackets in the studio. You are in the White House, and I can't see what you're wearing. I hope you're also wearing a tweed jacket. No, but I am wearing a very flowery dress, which seems appropriate. Okay.

For something. For something. Not sure what, but okay. Love that timestamp. Our youth appeal just continues to expand. That was probably one of the more excited moments Ron got about a timestamp. I thought that truly rocked. Yes.

All right. So tomorrow night around nine o'clock, Trump goes into the House of Representatives. We're all going to be watching and listening. It's going to be a big thing. Tam, what do we know at this point about what the president is going to talk about? So we've gotten a briefing from a senior administration official. What they're saying is that, you know, last year he gave this speech that was described as optimistic. And they're saying expect more of that, that this will be both an optimistic and

a unifying speech, that he's going to talk about bringing Americans together, which incidentally, if I, you know, I went back and I looked at last year's speech and that's exactly what he was talking about last year, too. And then there are some main bullet points that he is supposed to hit jobs in the economy. sell his administration, sell his accomplishments in this sort of straight to the American people kind of a speech that, you know, not every speech is carried on all the networks. So they see this as an opportunity for for salesmanship, infrastructure, something he's going to talk about, which he talked about last year, immigration, which he also talked about last year, trade and then also national security. So, Ron, President Trump is obviously in the news at all moments, at every single day, even more than other previous presidents. He just dominates

news cycle after news cycle. And yet the White House and most people in politics view this moment where he stands and gives a formal speech to Congress as a key high profile moment. Is that the right way to think of it in the Trump era, given how much time we spent talking about him? Yes, I think that's exactly how they should think of it. They want to use this to counter the usual impression that people have of Donald Trump, which is that he's immediately accessible, that he's talking all the time, that he's in touch with his supporters, and he is antagonizing his opponents, and that he is very much part of our everyday mix. There are people who can't go for a walk without stopping to check their phone to see if the president has sent

out a tweet. And not just us. And not just the journalists, not by any means, and not just people who love Donald Trump. So this is a person who is so much a part of our constant life, and yet in a way that is so almost casual that it lacks the stature and the gravitas of the White House and the presidency. And so this is his chance to go out and do something really traditional, something that people associate with past presidents and something that people associate with stability. And if he does that and if he does it in the manner that we're being promised, as Tam just described, then that helps on that front. It helps kind of balance this immediacy about his presidency.

One interesting thing that this makes me think of is during the briefing, reporters kept asking about sort of process or color or how the speech was coming together. And the White House really resisted talking about that. But at one point they talked about how carefully vetted this speech is, how it's going through all these various agencies and cabinet heads and just how intensely this speech is worked on as compared to other speeches. Super contrast. Yes. Super contrast. So why does this matter beyond the fact that it could be a PR boost for the president, though? Like, what is the lasting effect of the State of the Union address, especially in a political period where it's not like the president says, do these 10 things, Congress, and Congress is, you know, staffing to it and doing it? Possibly not much at all.

Possibly this will come and go as just one more one cycle story. And the cycles now are not even 24 whole hour cycles. And possibly it will be gone and we'll be talking about something entirely different by Wednesday or Thursday. It's also possible that the president might, by tapping into some of the traditional power of this structure, of this particular tradition, that he might actually connect with the voters, with the people who talk to pollsters, with the people in Congress, and set a little bit different tone and a little bit different emphasis within his agenda that might actually have some real effect. And it's definitely true that the few times that he has been a scripted traditional president, at least in that moment, at least in the way he's choosing to

present what he wants to say, he very quickly, almost every single time, is back within a day, within hours to the unscripted tweeting way he's chosen to operate most of his presidency. And that moment comes and goes very quickly. Yeah, it's kind of about emphasis in his speeches rather than about the words that he's saying, because I've been looking back at past speeches and let's let's go to his inaugural address, which is this. Everybody remembers it as the American carnage speech in basically the same breath as he was talking about gangs and drugs and American carnage. He was also talking about hope and unity and bringing the country together, like literally in the same sentence. And the crime, and the gangs, and the drugs that have stolen too many lives and robbed our country of so much unrealized potential. This American carnage stops right here and stops right now. We are one nation, and their pain is our pain.

Their dreams are our dreams, and their success will be our success. We share one heart, one home and one glorious destiny. And he does that even, you know, let's go to the Luther Strange rally speech that was like this freewheeling thing where he talked about NFL players taking a knee during the national anthem. In that speech, he also talked about how when one American hurts, all American hurts. When one part of America hurts, we all hurt. We grieve over all that's been lost, but we're also inspired by the incredible strength and spirit and resilience of our people. Together, we will recover, rebuild, and return bigger, better, stronger than ever before.

It's going to happen. It's going to happen quickly, quickly, better. The message is shockingly similar in every speech. It just varies, like, how much he emphasizes certain things. So, Ron, let's take Donald Trump out of it and just talk more big picture. Why is the State of the Union a thing? Why do we do this every year? Well, the Constitution actually told the president, yeah, the Constitution told the president to report from time to time, that's the direct language, on the State of the Union. Now, at the time, they were thinking mostly about this idea of having the 13 original states, the previous colonies, hang as one country. That was what they meant by the State of the Union. And they wanted the president to make a regular report on how that was going,

because that was the big issue of the beginning of the country. But this didn't say like late January, early February, show up in the House of Representatives. Absolutely not. But George Washington, bless his heart, thought it would be sweet to show up and actually talk to the House and Senate. Did you mean that in a real way or like in a shady, bless his heart? No, no. Well, bless your heart. Oh, bless your heart. No, I'm sure George Washington, in all sincerity, because he was not somebody who loved giving

speeches by any means, but he thought that was the right thing to do the first time out. So he came to the House and Senate and he gave a direct speech, a very positive speech. Most of his speeches that we have recorded are quite good, quite intelligent, quite lucid. And that speech was well remembered. But Thomas Jefferson thought that it was a little bit too kingly to get up in front of the Congress and give them a set of instructions or whatever. So he thought it would be more subtle and more in his style to just send a message. So he sent a separate message to House and Senate in 1801. And that became, in various forms, the new tradition and held for over a century. It wasn't until Woodrow Wilson in 1913, in his first State of the Union, got up and gave a speech that was in person before the House and Senate. And then that became the new normal. Especially when television became a thing. Yeah. And of course, that didn't happen right away. But Calvin Coolidge gave one on the radio in the 1920s. That was very impressive to people. And then Harry Truman took it to television in 1947. You know, Ron, if you hadn't been wearing tweed, I think your jacket would have turned into tweed.

It's growing shoulder patches at the moment. Okay, but I have another question. Either of you remember a single State of the Union speech that was truly notable, that truly set a course, that changed anything? Yes. Really? But maybe it's not. Maybe I'm wrong. One specific line I remember that actually did have policy implications was George W. Bush talking about an axis of evil, Iran, North Korea, Iraq, and beginning to make the case for the Iraq war. Absolutely. And earlier than that, you had Bill Clinton coming out after he had lost the House and the Senate and giving a speech to a pretty hostile room that was now dominated by the opposition party and saying the era of big government is over, which, of course, all the

Republicans had to get up and cheer. But, you know, for as much as Barack Obama was really good at giving speeches and gave very memorable speeches, the speeches I remember from him are not the State of the Unions, except for when Joe Wilson yelled at him to say, you lie. But that wasn't even a State of the Union, was it? That wasn't even a State of the Union. Exactly. And really, I mean, all of these speeches, Ronald Reagan's were uplifting. They were inspiring. He introduced the idea of having special guests in the gallery that he could point to, and they were American heroes. And his speeches were beautiful. I mean,

Ronald Reagan could take a well-written speech and make it a magnificently written speech just by the way he presented it. And some of the other presidents that we've had were similarly gifted in elevating their material. So it's an event. It's something that makes people feel as though the government is functioning as it's supposed to function. It's something that establishes a president's bona fides. And so it has a certain importance, even though it generally speaking is not a watershed event that changes policy. But Tim, one reason the State of the Union has become such an ingrained thing that kind of shapes what the president wants to talk about for the years. It's gone from beyond just a speech to like this multiple day roadshow where we're going to go to six important states and talk about these five issues.

That's something that Trump really isn't planning on doing at all, is he? Not that the White House has told us yet. So it's not clear exactly, you know, how this White House is planning to leverage this speech or use this speech to push their message beyond the single news cycle. And maybe they're waiting to see how the news cycle goes. That's kind of that's kind of what happened last year with the joint address to Congress is they were waiting to see what happened. And then when it played really well, they kind of laid low for a day or two. So, OK, let's talk about something that is not in the Constitution. And I can't really think of a good reason for it because it's often turned into an abacus.

And that is the minority party's response. This time is the Democratic response. Joe Kennedy, Massachusetts congressman. Yes, one of those Kennedys is giving. And he looks like it, too. He really does. 37-year-old clone of all the others. He's giving the Democratic response. But OK, every Democratic or Republican response that comes to mind to me is a debacle. Like the Marco Rubio water grabbing moment, the Bobby Jindal popping up and going, hi, moment. And then talking so slowly.

And then last year, the outgoing governor of Kentucky looked like he had held a diner hostage and forced them to sit there staring into the camera while he spoke. Like, it never goes well. Well, it has gone awry because people have tried so hard to make it a live response. And it actually isn't a live response. It's scripted. People have already decided what they want to say. And then they go on and do it live after the president's speech. And it always looks weak in comparison because here's the president talking to the whole country and the whole Congress at his feet.

Everyone's in his thrall. And then somebody, usually an up-and-coming politician like Marco Rubio or Bobby Jindal or Joe Kennedy, is tasked with somehow trying to match the stature and the grandeur of what we have just seen. That's impossible. Yeah, and alone in an empty room staring at a camera or, you know, as was tried last year, in a diner with people who didn't look happy to be there

staring at a camera. They should have at least pretended to eat. That's the thing I couldn't get. Like, all right, everybody, tried last year in a diner with people who didn't look happy to be there. They should have at least pretended to eat. That's the thing I couldn't get. Like, all right, everybody, just don't breathe too hard. Just be natural. Yeah, it looked like a scene from Pulp Fiction. So, all right. So in the past, they've tried various and sundry different things.

They've had Republican governors standing in front of their state legislature responding to Democratic presidents. And if you go back a little further, the first one of these things was 1966. A couple of guys that many people may have forgotten named Everett Dirksen and Jerry Ford, who would later be president. And the other became a building. I think they're all buildings. And so these guys got up and did a response, but not right after the president. It came on later, a few days later, in some cases. And this was the tradition in the Nixon and later years, Carter years. And it was not until Ronald Reagan that the Democrats thought, you know, we're missing a big chance for a big audience here. So they pre-recorded like a half hour show, showing them at their best. And they put that on starting

in 1982. And then they had a few more of them like that. And then eventually people thought, no, it looks too canned. It looks too stale. The president's live. We've got to be live too. That was probably a mistake, but people haven't dialed it back yet. All right. Well, Joe Kennedy has a high bar to hurdle over or kind of run into and fall down. I mean, either way. Alright, we're going to take a quick break and we will be right back to talk a little bit more about this. Hey, this is

Ken Jennings from Jeopardy. And this is John Roderick from the band The Long Winters. Twice a week, we're adding a new entry to The Omnibus, a time capsule for the future where we preserve fascinating stories from our weird world. Don't wait for the apocalypse. Check out Omnibus, a time capsule for the future where we preserve fascinating stories from our weird world. Don't wait for the apocalypse. Check out Omnibus today. OK, we're back. I think the one state of the union thing we haven't talked about yet is the the guests in the room, the guests in the room often to make a point, sometimes to make a point that's awkward for the president. What do we know about the guests that

lawmakers are bringing this year? Well, most notably, many Democrats are bringing dreamers. Those would be young people who came to the country and are here illegally now, but many of them who have, through a program called DACA, gotten temporary legal status and work permits, which are now at the heart of this big fight that the president and Congress are trying to work their way through. In the first ladies box, these are people who will be sitting with Melania Trump, who the president is likely to reference. There will be people affected by the opioid crisis, as well as people fighting it. And also people who have benefited or will benefit from the tax bill

that was passed late last year. You can expect the president to talk a lot about that tax bill. All right. So there's one other thing that happened just before we went in to record the pod. Aha. For once, we were slightly ahead of the news curve. Of course, who knows what will happen. Who knows what will happen over the next six hours.

Yes. But reports came out that Andrew McCabe, the number two official at the FBI, is going to be stepping down and retiring. This got a lot of people's attention because McCabe has been one of the people that President Trump has publicly criticized when Trump has lashed out at the FBI for practices he thinks are unfair that unfairly target him. McCabe's wife had run for state Senate in Virginia as a Democrat, got money from Terry McAuliffe, who, of course, is incredibly close with the Clintons. That was 2015. Then in 2016, after she had already lost, McCabe became deputy director of the FBI and in that role broadly oversaw the Clinton email investigation, as well as later the Trump Russia investigation. Yeah. So this got a little bit more attention because the Trump attacks on the FBI have kind of ramped up lately. And there's been a lot of reporting about the various people that President Trump and the White House have pressured within the Justice Department. But, Tam, it seems like we knew this was probably coming, right?

Yeah. So our colleagues, Kerry Johnson and Ryan Lucas, have been reporting for some time now, since around the holidays, that McCabe is eligible for retirement and a full pension in March, but that he has a ton of vacation and other leave built up and that he was likely to leave the building before March. And according to a source who spoke with NPR, that is basically a done deal now. That's a quote, basically a done deal now. And multiple sources have told NPR's Kerry Johnson that someone named David Bowditch, who's the number three official at the FBI, is likely to get promoted to deputy director of the FBI. And he is someone who was involved in the investigation into the San Bernardino shooting. So, Ron, Trump has has said critical things and asked critical questions about a lot of people in the Department of Justice. But it seems like Andrew McCabe, for one reason or another, kind of became the focal point or symbol of all this Republican anger and frustration

with the investigation into Trump to begin with, and also the lingering questions about the Hillary Clinton email investigation. That's right. And when you stop and think about it, a lot of these key players, James Comey, Bob Mueller, have never been associated with the Democratic Party. Robert Mueller is a Republican. Most of these people have tried to stay as neutral as they can in political matters. But McCabe has a wife who has been active in Democratic politics, and that makes him a little more vulnerable than some of these other people. And according to some reports,

the president asked him at the point where they had an interview for whom he had voted in 2016. And that's not a question that generally speaking, presidents ask of people in positions such as the FBI. Right. And one reason why I think we approach events like the State of the Union with such curiosity is because it's a norm for a president, for a White House, that has just blown up so many of the norms. And there's no norm. I feel like Mara here saying norm over and over again. But there's no norm that Trump has flouted more than his constant aggressive attacks on FBI personnel like Andrew McCabe,

his constant trying to direct the FBI and the Justice Department through social media, through other things, to investigate Hillary Clinton, to drop the investigation into Russian interference in the election. So one last thing before we wrap this up today, and this ties into this a little bit. We have not done listener mail for a long time just because there's been so much news to talk about. But we had a good one from Joe. Not sure where you're from, Joe, but Joe, you know, from anywhere. He asked, I've been following the coverage

of the Russia investigation and have noticed a phrase being thrown around a lot, constitutional crisis. What is a constitutional crisis and how might such a scenario affect how things move forward should Trump do something rash

like fire Mueller? Good question. Ron, constitutional crisis. Okay, I'm not a constitutional law professor. But you're as close to one as we have. This is going to be a layman's answer. But I would say as a layman, that a constitutional crisis is when something happens, and we don't know what the Constitution would have us do, because there's some question about it. And that means authority is not clear. Who is in charge? Who can do

something? For example, you'll hear people say that President Trump can fire the special counsel, Bob Mueller, and shouldn't do it. And you'll hear other people say, it doesn't matter if he tries to do it. He simply can't do it. That's a constitutional question that would have to be resolved. The Saturday Night Massacre back to Watergate time, 1973, that was a constitutional crisis where the president was firing all these people who were trying to investigate him. That brought about a period of uncertainty about whether or not the president was operating within his authority. That's a constitutional crisis. So one thing that we were talking a little bit about before the podcast, as a good example,

somebody said, was with the 2000 election a constitutional crisis when the Supreme Court was ruling on the Florida ballot, and it was so close? It was not because it was resolved in the usual course of federal court proceedings. But if Al Gore had said, I don't accept that, I am going to continue to contest this in some way, and I'm the sitting vice president of the United States, which he was at that time, and I have to certify the vote when the Senate actually gets together in January to actually confirm that election, I'm going to resist at that point. That would have been a constitutional crisis, but it didn't happen.

Okay. So that's Ron's answer, but it's a good question. So that is a wrap for today. We will be back in your feed first thing Wednesday morning with a recap and analysis of the State of the Union. Shortly after President Trump is done speaking, Tam and some other folks are going to sit in a studio and break everything down for you. So check for that first thing Wednesday morning. In the meantime, you can keep up with all of our coverage on NPR.org, on your local public radio station, and on the NPR One app. And if you're in Cleveland, you can come see us live. We'll be there in a few weeks. The show will be February 23rd at the Ohio Theater at Playhouse Square.

NPRpresents.org is where you can find tickets. That's NPRpresents.org. I'm Scott Detrow. I cover Congress for NPR. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. And I'm Ron Elving, editor-correspondent. Thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast. Do you love trivia, puzzles, nerdy games, and humor? What about interviews with actors,

musicians, and people from all walks of life? Yeah? Then join me, Ophira Eisenberg, host of NPR's Ask Me Another, every week on the NPR One app and wherever you listen to podcasts.