The NPR Politics Podcast - Tucker Carlson Has Exclusive Access To Jan. 6th Security Tapes

Episode Date: March 2, 2023

Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy provided access to the footage to Carlson, who has frequently used his Fox News show to spread conspiracies about the attack. There has been a sustained effort on the part of Trump-allied Republicans to muddy the waters about the nature of the U.S. Capitol riot. This episode: political correspondent Susan Davis, congressional correspondent Claudia Grisales, and senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro.This episode was produced by Elena Moore and Casey Morell. It was edited by Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Research and fact-checking by Devin Speak.Unlock access to this and other bonus content by supporting The NPR Politics Podcast+. Sign up via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Giveaway: npr.org/politicsplusgiveaway Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

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Once I knew how the trains ran, I felt like I knew everything. Hey there. It's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics. I'm Claudia Grisales. I cover Congress. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And House Speaker Kevin McCarthy recently provided Fox News' Tucker Carlson exclusive access to the security footage from the January 6th attack on the U.S. Capitol. Carlson, of course, has used his platform to spread conspiracy theories and sometimes outright lies about the 2020 election and the January 6th attack to his sizable and influential Fox News audience. So, Claudia, how did McCarthy justify the reasoning behind this decision? Well, he said it's time to let the sunshine in.

He said he was asked about this before he was House Speaker, and he had given the same response, which is that sunshine matters, and so everyone should be able to look and see these tapes. And he said Carlson had already expressed interest in this footage. And he said it was tantamount to other media outlets airing the same tape from that day. And he also did highlight that he had his own concerns when that footage was aired, including his own exit route, which was shown from the Capitol. I think it's important to note here that in the orbit of congressional leadership,

the Speaker of the House is the only constitutional officer. All of the other leadership offices are creations of the party. And he has an obligation to the institution. And one of the criticisms against a speaker for doing this is that a lot of the tape was not released to the public because it's considered security information. It shows passageways in and out of the Capitol, how lawmakers got in and out, and, you know, not releasing this more widely could have security implications for the complex. Right. In terms of those concerns, those have been expressed plenty in terms of that kind of detail showing the exit routes. But what we've heard from the January 6 committee, for example, last year in terms of the footage they shared as they went through all of

that tape with U.S. Capitol Police and cleared it to make sure there were no risks in terms of what they shared. And they're arguing the Republicans are not doing the same thing. When we talk about these tapes, I mean, it is thousands upon thousands of hours of security footage from all over the complex. McCarthy's office to release the video to them as well. Now, McCarthy says that they're going to comb through those requests. Will others have access to it? He seems to signal yes, but there's a lot of lack of clarity here. We're not clear how this process is going to work, when that could happen, even when Carlson may air his part of it. And there's also a question of whether House Republican committees will also use this footage for their own interests when they conduct further oversight or investigation into the January 6th attack.

They're turning the tables on Democrats. Domenico, this is complicated because there has been an effort, particularly within the Republican Party to varying degrees, not only to undermine the efforts of the January 6th committee that investigated the attack, but also to downplay the events of what happened that day. That is certainly a line that at times in a show, Tucker Carlson has given a platform to those views. And this seems to potentially provide them a way of using these images to tell an alternative narrative about what happened on January 6th. Yeah. And it's really interesting to me to think about like, what is it exactly that they think

they're going to find on this? And I'm not even sure that they know that there's something that's there, but this is partially McCarthy kind of giving in to the right wing, his right flank, where he only has a four seat majority in the House. And he had to make those deals to be able to get to be speaker in the first place. And these right wing conspiracy theories have been floating around on Fox News and on the right that there's some kind of potential false flag operation on January 6th, which is completely not true. And Carlson himself has already said that he's got his smartest producers looking at this and that they're, quote, looking at stuff and trying to figure out what it means and how it contradicts or not the story we've been told for more than two years.

We think already that in some ways it does contradict that story. So sometimes it's just like Trump. You just throw it out there and see if it sticks. Claudia, I'm sure Democrats are not thrilled with this decision by the speaker, but how have they responded to it? Right, exactly. Not thrilled. They've issued statements. They've raised a lot of alarm over this. Both Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries issued a statement raising the level of concern. Schumer, for example, called it one of the worst security risks since 9-11. I think it's based a lot in the uncertainty in terms of what Carlson could share. And as

Domenico mentioned, and what kind of framing it's shared, if it's more lies, if it's more of these outrageous claims that spread misinformation, disinformation. concern that there's not a rigorous process here with Republicans working with Capitol Police in terms of what is released, at least in Carlson's case, that clarity is not there. McCarthy has said, yes, we'll work with Capitol Police in terms of not showing, for example, exit routes. He also said Carlson had expressed that he would not show these exit routes, but it sounds like the concerns go beyond that in terms of what could be shared. All right, let's take a quick break. And we'll talk more about this in a second. And we're back. And Domenico, the thing I think about in this is, on the one hand, it makes sense that McCarthy would make this move. Keeping the far right happy has proven to be very critical to his early success as speaker.

But broadly speaking, there's a big faction of this party that would like to move beyond January 6th and stop the political conversation from being focused on what happened that day. Particularly if you look at the lesson of 2022, in which, you know, conspiracy theorists about the election or people who are sympathizers for the January 6th attack didn't do so well in the election. And you just said, McCarthy's got this really narrow majority. So is it a short-term gain for a bigger headache, I wonder? Yeah. I mean, I was just going to say the midterms really were a big lesson in that a lot of these swing districts and competitive states that really a lot of these voters in suburban districts, big cities where a lot of Republicans are too, that these independent leaning voters, they don't want to continue to litigate this when they don't would like to be able to move on to 2024 and pick a candidate who they think would have a good chance against Joe Biden to be able to win in 2024.

And right now, majorities are saying that that's not Trump. And Trump is obviously the key force behind pushing these election lies. And Fox News has been a key platform for giving voice to them. You know, Claudia, Republicans never participated in the January 6th committee. Granted, two Republican lawmakers did, but they were appointed by Democrats and not by McCarthy. But in the run up to the election, one of the things Republicans campaigned on is that they would investigate the investigators. Right. They were going to look into the January 6th committee itself. And I wonder I know there's many investigations being

launched in the House right now, but are they actually going to do that? Is there any attempts to follow through and maybe re-litigate January 6th from the oversight perspective? I do think we're seeing the beginnings of it in terms of this footage. Last year, we heard about 14,000 hours of tape. Now we're hearing about more than 40,000. So going, it sounds like, beyond that window of just the riot at the Capitol, looking at footage before, after, what have you. And so I think we're seeing the beginning of that. Perhaps we could see House committees get more involved in terms of how they use the footage, for example, such as the House Administration Committee. We heard this past week that one of the members on that panel, Representative Loudermilk, is going to be

heading up efforts to share that footage with defendants in criminal cases linked to the January 6th attack. Now, they have had access before, so there's a little lack of clarity there as well in terms of what kind of access these defendants may have. They're saying they're going to consider it. Loudermilk himself said they would consider it on a case-by-case basis. So we'll see how that pans out. But it also raises questions about other panels that could be using this footage and using it in a way that they, Republicans, will be saying that they're investigating the investigators and looking closer at folks like former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her role on that day. They've raised a lot of questions about her daughter having access that day to filming her and others during the attack. And so I expect we'll hear more on this to come.

You know, it's fascinating, Domenico, like this is about a decision from McCarthy, but in so many ways, it's really about Donald Trump. You know, the former president continues to deny sort of his role in fomenting the January 6th attack. But keeping this up and sort of fueling these narratives helps him. And McCarthy, after he secured the speakership, said very publicly, I couldn't have done this without Donald Trump. And the party might be debating who the nominee should be. But within the House Republican Conference, he still has a tremendous amount of loyalty, especially from the Speaker of the House. He certainly does.

But the House Republican Conference has moved much further to the right than they have over the last 10, 15, 20 years. And there's this tension that's happening because Republicans have lost seven of the last eight popular votes in presidential elections. And as they move further to the right, even embracing conspiracy theory in some cases, they really alienate a lot of those voters in the middle, the persuadable voters who Joe Biden was able to pull over and peel away from Trump after Trump had won some of them over in 2016. So they really have this tension. And that's

why you have some of the party, at least, looking for other alternatives. But as we've said before, as Trump continues to gin some of this up and is popular with that portion of the base, if there's going to be a split among other Republican potential 2024 nominees, a multi-candidate field certainly helps Trump with a path to win the nomination again. Claudia, it's so early in the new majority, but I wonder, you know, the struggle to become speaker, these kinds of decisions from McCarthy, what does it tell you about sort of how he is guiding his leadership decisions? Right. He is pretty boxed in. I think you caught that during the 15 rounds. I remember it clearly. in a really tough space in terms of trying to please kind of these more hard right members by doing this first, you know, and not hitting kind of more in the middle for Republicans, for those moderate Republicans. And so it's going to be a really tricky path for him going forward. It really lays out a lot of questions about McCarthy's ability to message. I mean,

talking about these tapes as a, quote, unquote, exclusive for Fox News that other networks get exclusives to. Usually the source of those exclusives isn't the one talking about them. And it also raises questions about his ability to lead and the serious things that are coming down the pike, like the raising of the debt ceiling or the potential of shutting down the government. All right. That is it for us for today. I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics.

I'm Claudia Grisales. I cover Congress. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And thanks for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.