The NPR Politics Podcast - Weekly Roundup: April 22

Episode Date: April 22, 2022

The United States will welcome up to 100,000 Ukrainians and will streamline their immigration and vetting process, the White House told reporters this week. The news comes as Russian violence continues to roil the country's east. Another possible mass grave with as many as 9,000 bodies has been found near the besieged city of Mariupol. And in both France and the United States, inflation is making paychecks feel smaller—and it has become an animating issue for conservative voters. French President Emmanuel Macron faces populist Marine Le Pen in a runoff election this weekend.This episode: congressional correspondent Susan Davis, white House correspondent Franco Ordoñez, White House correspondent Asma Khalid, White House correspondent Tamara Keith, and France correspondent Eleanor Beardsley.Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio station.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Kim Strzezewski in the Czech Republic. I am listening to the Politics Podcast as my American study abroad students play hide and seek with the children of Ukrainian refugees. We arrange free basic Czech classes at our school to help with their stay here and arrange for our students to volunteer to play with their kids while they study. This podcast was recorded at 12.17 p.m. on Friday, April 22nd. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, and I hope the Russians and Ukrainians are closer to a ceasefire. Enjoy the show. Oh, that's great work. Yeah, it's amazing how people have really come together for the people of Ukraine. Yeah. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Susan Davis. I cover

Congress. And I'm Esma Khalid. I cover the White House. And I'm Frank Ordonez in Ukraine. And, Franco, I want to say before we get into your reporting that this episode is one our listeners might not want to share if they have little kids around. There is new satellite imagery that appears to show hundreds of grave sites outside the besieged port city of Mariupol. And Ukrainian officials say thousands of people could be buried there. Evacuation corridors are on hold. Officials had hoped to evacuate thousands from the city. Franco, this mirrors a lot of the news we've seen a few weeks ago around the suburbs of Kyiv where you are right now.

What is the latest? You know, it's really bad. I mean, those images we've been looking at show that some of those trenches where the bodies are are almost 300 feet long. They're kind of tucked behind a gas station and a cemetery in a village just outside of Mariupol. And as you said, city officials estimate there could be thousands of bodies buried in there, but they really don't know. And the mayor of Mariupol says the Russians are using these mass graves to cover up war crimes. I actually had lunch with an advisor to President Zelensky today, and he just said over and over that this is genocide. I mean, you're there, you're reporting on the investigations into these alleged atrocities near Kiev. What are you finding in your reporting?

Yeah, I mean, it's devastating. I did also sit down with the chief prosecutor who's leading those investigations. And she told me that her office has already opened 8,000 war crime investigations. And she says that's not even complete. She said that number could double or triple or even more because they have no access to the East, to Mariupol, where so much of some of the potentially devastating stuff is happening. I did follow one group of civil society investigators working with prosecutors to a community outside of Kyiv, a community called Paramoha. And we stopped actually at an Orthodox church that had two massive holes in the side of the wood structure. I mean, so big. I mean, it was like the size of two small cars, really.

The priest, he took us inside, and know, destruction. Broken crosses on the floor, shattered holy images everywhere, you know, a chandelier by the pulpit. And, you know, the priest just talked about how these, you know, the Russians had come to the village, taken him, put him, you know, put him in his basement, held him against his will. He could not go even to visit community to help them bury their loved ones. So investigators are looking at all that kind of thing and, you know, looking at, you know, citizens, civilians being held against their will. They were also looking at, in this case, a retirement community where allegedly Russians were hiding out and using seniors as human shields. I mean, again, allegations, but very concerning ones. Yeah. I mean, to no surprise, some of the U.S. announced that they're going to be sending more support to Ukraine. Can you sort of detail what that support is and when it's going to get there? Yeah. You know, I will say, Sue, just from the outset,

I think it's worth noting as you hear what Franco is describing, there's very few things that feel like they have bipartisan support these days in Washington. Support for Ukraine is actually one of those rare things. And so the president says that what he's focused on right now is trying to equip Ukraine so that it can really be prepared for what the administration is describing as the next phase of this war. They say that Russia was not successful in capturing Ukraine's capital of Kiev, and so it's now regrouping and refocusing on the eastern part of the country, the Donbass region. And, you know, essentially they think that Ukraine needs a different set of equipment for that area to fight that conflict. It's just flatter terrain, President Biden said. You know, so yesterday what he announced was $800 million more of security assistance. At this point, the president says that he has essentially drawn down all of the authority that Congress has so far allocated for Ukraine. And he intends to ask for more money next week from Congress. You know, you cover Congress, Sue, but from my

sense, it's like, it's not going to be a hard sell for him to get additional aid. No, I don't think so. And Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer had made very clear before they went on their current break that when they came back, more money for Ukraine was going to be at the top of the agenda. And so far, there's been pretty considerable bipartisan support for more money. If anything, I think there's been some frustration that they haven't been sending enough, especially when it comes to military support. Asma, there's also been a move to help take in more Ukrainian refugees. That is right. You know, last month, the president announced that the United States would take

in up to 100,000 Ukrainian refugees into the United States. But there hasn't really been, so far at least, a mechanism to do that. And so to date, you've seen about, I think it's 15,000 Ukrainians who have crossed into the United States during the past couple of months, mainly over the land border at the south with Mexico. They have been given some exemptions. They have been allowed into the United States. But officials said this week that starting this coming week, the United States will largely not be giving Ukrainians exemptions to come in at the southern border. And they've now created this process. They believe it will help streamline the ways in which Ukrainian refugees can come to the United States. It's a bit of a sort of confusing process. But in a nutshell,

they're standing up a website where sponsors here in the United States can upload affidavits and have to indicate that they can financially support Ukrainians who want to enter into the United States. Yeah, I think it's going to be very interesting to watch how this process goes, because there's been a lot of questions about how many refugees the United States will actually take in. I mean, they've only taken a fraction of the refugees that they said are expected to take in this fiscal year. And I've talked with refugees from Ukraine who have really struggled to get information. So it'll be interesting to see how this new plan or process works out. And you know, one thing, Franco, they did tell us, officials from the Department of Homeland Security, that this is not going to be a system where, say, you are a Ukrainian refugee in Poland,

you can raise your hand and individually apply for this. It is the sponsors who will need to upload affidavits. They will need to indicate which Ukrainians they are applying for. All right, Franco, thank you so much. We're going to let you go. Thank you for your reporting and please stay safe. Thanks all. Yeah, bye Franco. And Asma, we have to talk about one quick thing before we go to a break. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy has been caught in a lie. And in a forthcoming book, two New York Times reporters, Jonathan Martin and Alex Burns, are offering new details about how Kevin McCarthy privately supported Trump resigning from office in the days immediately following the January 6th attack on the Capitol. McCarthy initially issued a statement calling that report, quote, totally false and wrong.

And then the reporters offered up some receipts. They released audio late last night they obtained in which McCarthy is clearly heard stating that he would advise Trump to resign from office. That would be my recommendation. We should resign. I mean, that would be my take, but I don't think he would take it. But I don't know. I mean, so this story is wild, but I will say like so many things that we've observed within the Republican Party since January 6th, it all seems like it's Teflon. Nothing seems to stick. Right. And so I'm curious if you feel like this will have actual an actual negative impact on Kevin McCarthy. is that even though McCarthy felt that way, and we kind of knew he felt that way, he'd even been publicly critical of Trump at the time, he's really since gotten in line. He's proved that he's loyal to the president. This highlights that he's loyal even over his own personal objections.

And the question I put is, you know, why wouldn't Donald Trump want that person to be Speaker of the House if he's proven that he'll be loyal to him, and frankly, willing to lie to the New York Times about him. So I think it's kind of shocking because it's rare to catch a politician so clearly lying. But I don't know if the impact is really going to have any negative blowback for him. Sue, when you hear and when you read what Kevin McCarthy felt initially right after January 6th. And you see how loyally he has gotten behind the former president. I don't understand how that evolution entirely came about. And maybe there is like a very long explanation here that you can't fit in. No, I actually think it's a pretty short explanation. Because I think in that immediate

aftermath, I think both Kevin McCarthy and Senate leader Mitch McConnell were horrified by what had happened. They have said publicly that initially they were really angry at Trump, that they thought he played a role in fomenting what had happened, but that when they went and took the pulse checks of their rank and file lawmakers that they weren't there with them. So I think that they took those positions because leadership has to reflect where their members are. And the broader, you know, Republican lawmakers set is still behind Donald Trump. I think the big picture takeaway here is that come January, Congress could be led by two men who are very loyal to Trump, even though they have had very private issues with him. So I think that any private reservation to Donald Trump has been buried in service to him in the present. Yeah. All right, let's take a quick break. And when we come back,

we're going to talk about inflation here in the US and in France. And we're back and we're joined by Eleanor Beardsley, NPR's correspondent in France. Hey, Eleanor. Hi, guys. So the French presidential elections runoff is happening this Sunday. I want to talk to you about all of that. But first, I'd like to talk about some of the issues that are driving politics there, because I think some of them mirror the issues driving the politics here in the US. Asma, you've done a ton of reporting on the impact of inflation on US politics. Can you talk about what you have heard from the voters you have been speaking to about how that's affecting how they view the election this year? And then I'd love to hear what Eleanor has been

hearing about from voters in France. And I mean, it's so interesting to think that there are global themes. I mean, this is the argument that you often hear from the Biden administration is that it's not just about inflation here in the United States. They try to argue that there are a global supply chain, hiccups and problems. But to the question about voters, you know, I will say if you look at pretty much any survey in the last couple of months, you go out and speak with voters and you ask what's at the top of their mind, their top concern, you'll hear about rising prices and inflation. You know, I will go out and hear from people who are retired engineers, people who are dual income families who feel like they are now buying generic

products, who feel like they can't buy as many fruits and vegetables as they once did. Women in particular who will quote to me the price increases that they've seen on grocery store shelves. And so it's just it's an emotional issue that bugs people a whole lot more than other economic issues. Eleanor, is inflation dominating the political debate in France the way it is here? Yeah, I would say it's dominating. And it's really helping one candidate, and that's Marine Le Pen, because she's actually been campaigning on purchasing power since last fall. And it wasn't that exciting last fall.

But now it's the number one concern of French voters, especially like the price of gas has gone up nearly 30 percent in the last year. And of course, some of that is because of the war in Ukraine. And that war has actually had a double impact. When it first broke out, it's President Emmanuel Macron who got a boost in the polls, because everyone was just so just frightened. They couldn't believe there was a war on European soil, and he was playing this high stakes diplomacy trying to get a ceasefire. But that only lasted for about a month. And the second effect was that prices started going up. We've had shortages in the grocery store. You can't find like sunflower seed cooking oil. You can only find olive oil now in

stores because most of that comes from Ukraine. And it's really hitting people on basic price necessities. So Marine Le Pen, who has kept focusing on this issue, it has come back around to help her. And she's seen as the candidate who's helping working class people make ends meet. And Macron is sort of the candidate for the rich. You know, he's a globalization candidate, a high financier. He helps big corporations and the rich. I mean, and you hear this all the time at Le Pen rallies. I was at one yesterday and a couple, Nathalie and Franck Herblain, they're agro-industry workers in factories, and they both told me that.

They basically said, we're sick of Macron and what he's put the country through. We don't have any buying, purchasing power. The rich are getting richer, and people who don't work get some handouts. But we who work hard, we have nothing, and Marine Le Pen is going to do everything she can to help us. So you're hearing that over and over. She's the candidate of the little guy. Wow. I mean, this election is familiar, I think, to a lot of American listeners. This is

a rematch. We've heard about Macron competing against Le Pen before. But she seems to have maybe rehabbed her image in the eyes of a lot of French voters. I mean, she had been cast at least, I think, the way Americans think of her as kind of a far right fringe candidate. Right. She has recast. For an American, I'd like to say, she's, no, she's not, we see her as some sort of racist extremist. No, she's changed. That was her father. She doesn't have that image. She's more a populist right. And she has recast her image. I've seen the difference in the crowds at her rallies, even since the last time five years ago, totally different crowds. These are really mainstream people who would not vote for an extremist.

She's just, you know, she's like, I want to protect our system for the French. It's like, you know, make America great again. She's like, make France great again. It's all about that. But, Eleanor, can I ask you, I mean, the cultural issues, are they not there too under the surface? I mean, one thing, for example, I've heard just through social media channels is her talk about banning the hijab, the headscarf in public, right? Like, it feels

a bit like what we saw in the 2016 election here with President Trump, which, you know, people will say at times is about the economy, but the race and cultural issues were always apparent with President Trump as well. Well, you know, I want to say yes and no, because yes, she did say that, but she also said that is absolutely not a priority that she would do. And I think if she actually got into power, she wouldn't do it. It would be impossible. But this is another factor I want to get to. This election this year, there was another candidate much further right than her. His name was Eric Zemmour. I mean, he did not hide his xenophobic, anti-Islam, anti-immigration talk. And that also made her seem more mainstream.

She literally didn't even mention those issues much at all. She just stuck to the economy. So that's changed things as well. And actually, you know, I was at this rally yesterday. I must have talked to 10 people waiting in line. Nobody cites we need to stop immigration. It's all about the little guy. We've been overlooked.

The Yellow Vest Movement, remember that? The working poor who came out. They're not gone and they really hate Macron. So Americans have this view of her that she's just so racist and all that. It's not really the case. I'm not saying she's not. It's just changed. Everything has changed this year.

So I would call her a populist, a right-wing populist. But the far-right guy was Eric Zemmour and he's just changed. Everything has changed this year. So I would call her a populist, a right wing populist. But the far right guy was Eric Zemmour and he's now gone. But his voters aren't gone, actually. So but he's not in the election anymore. There If he wins, obviously, it would be more of a status quo election. But I wonder, if Le Pen were to pull off an upset victory, what's at stake for France here? I think, particularly in this moment, because of what's happening in Ukraine and sort of the US Western alliance, she seems like someone who might be willing to disrupt some of those traditions. Yeah, absolutely. We would see an inward turning France, you know, taking care of itself. All this, you know, let's focus on the French in France. France wouldn't be leading the EU with Germany anymore.

You know, France and Germany have led the EU. It's very important that motor, that Franco-German motor, that would be gone. They would probably, France would be trying to weaken it, opt out of policies. France would cultivate different alliances. It might not be as close to the U.S. It would probably be closer to, you know, Euroskeptic countries like Viktor Orban's Hungary. And, you know, while Le Pen has condemned Russia over the invasion of Ukraine, she did say that when this war, this Russian-Ukrainian war is over, that NATO needs to establish a rapport with Russia and Putin again. So who knows how far she would go in restoring an alliance with Russia. France is a leader on the world stage in Europe and with ties to the U.S. and, you know, it has peace operations fighting terrorism in Africa. There's so many things and all of this would

probably end if the whole tenor of France's foreign policy would change. Well, we know you got to report all weekend long, depending on how this election shakes out, we might actually need you back on this podcast very soon. So Eleanor, thanks so much. Sounds good. Thank you. All right, let's take a quick break. And when we get back time for Can't Let It Go. And we're back and it's time to end the show like we do every week with can't let it go the part of the show where we talk about the things from the week that we can't stop talking about politics or otherwise and today we brought in a surprise guest Tamara Keith hello hello hello Tam since you're joining us for this segment what can't't you let go of? Well, I was the White House radio pooler on Monday, which is the day of the White House Easter egg roll, an annual tradition that

went away for COVID, but was back and better than ever. Part of this tradition involves these totally bizarre looking kind of creepy Easter bunny costume things that appear next to the president. This year, there was Mama Bunny, whose head was on in such a way that she looked as though she was staring at the sky, maybe looking at an eclipse. And then the other bunny, the one with glasses. You know, fun little thing. But a reporter at BuzzFeed named David Mack found out the backstory with these costumes. There is a man, a costume designer named John Shenz. He made one for in 1981 to accompany President Ronald Reagan at the Egg Roll. And then so the story goes, they gave the costume

to the National Park Service. And then the next year, the bunny showed up and it was dirty and bedraggled. And John Shenz said, never again. Not on my watch. Not on my watch. These bunnies are in so many pictures with children and the first lady and the president. And these bunnies are going to look good every single year. And so does he make a new one every year? No, he is the guardian of the bunnies. And these are the same bunnies that have been coming year after year after year. But they return to John Shenz every year and get cleaned up and tucked away and taken care of until it's time for them to come back again. Now, the sad thing is that he did recently die of lung cancer, and his friends are carrying on his legacy and taking care of the

bunny suits and bringing them back to the White House. So it's a sweet story, and I'm glad that this hero of costumes got his acknowledgement. You know, I have some mom guilt around the Easter egg roll this year because I actually put in for the lottery and won some tickets. You did. And then so you didn't go? I didn't go because it was cold and rainy. And I just thought my toddler is going to have a miserable time if we drag her there. So I'm glad we didn't tell her.

It was going to be a surprise. So fortunately, we didn't tell her. It was going to be a surprise. So fortunately, I didn't hype her that we were going to go. Hopefully she's not an NPR politics podcast listener. I know. Thank God she doesn't know how to download this podcast. But I'm hoping next year we'll win the lottery again and I can take her because I do think it's super fun for the kids that get to go. They might not be as terrified as the Easter Bunny mascot costumes as some of us adults are. But Asma, what can't you let go of this week? So mine's not so funny, but I will say it is something that has been on my mind a lot. Y'all, I think, know that I am a big tennis addict, played tennis for years, love tennis. Long story short, just the other day, Wimbledon,

you know, the famous tennis tournament in the United Kingdom, decided to ban Russian and Belarusian players from participating in this year's tournament. And, you know, it just like made me, I feel like I've weirdly been sort of obsessed with this topic because I don't entirely see the merits of barring individual athletes from competing in an individual sporting event. I mean, it's not the Olympics where you're, you know, coming in under, say, the banner of your country. And, you know, I mean, look, like there's some really good Russian and Belarusian athletes. I think it was like four of the top 20 total in the men and women's side

are from Russia or from Belarus. I think like the currently number two ranked player in the entire world for men's tennis is Russian. And yeah, and they don't get a chance to play. And I feel like I understand the desire to put a lot of pressure on Russia. But in reality, like, is barring an individual player, you know, who didn't really choose the country they were born in. Right, like the private citizen versus the state. Yeah, like is that going to make Putin stop this war? No. Anyhow, it just made me wonder,

what is the point exactly of punishing everybody who happens to be born in a particular country for the actions of their government? And I don't know, maybe you'll have a convincing counter-argument, but I can't wrap my head around why. You know, sometimes I think it's because a lot of people in the world don't want to talk about politics, and they don't want to deal with sort of global affairs. But sports is something that

like bonds people, it bonds humanity. And I think they sometimes we use sports, the Olympics is a great example, and like barring Russian athletes there, although a lot of the barring was because the Russian athletes were doping. Yes, to be barred. It wasn't because of the actions of the Russian government. But, you know, I think in different ways, different aspects of the global community are trying to send a message to the Russian government that like your actions are so abhorrent. We're willing to take extraordinary measures against your citizens and your government. And I don't know if it has I get the intention of what they're doing.

I don't know if it will have the effect they're hoping for on Russian sentiment. Sue, what can't you let go of? What I can't let go of this week, and it's only funny now because everyone's safe oh boy yeah the dramatic evacuation of the u.s capital wednesday evening you know um everyone in the capital community including reporters up there will get um emergency notifications when things happen suspicious package something like that and they come from the press galleries. And honestly, it's a fairly standard thing to kind of get these, you know, doors closed here, go out this way. But there was a really scary message that was sent out Wednesday evening that was like, evacuate aircraft headed towards the Capitol, evacuate immediately,

immediate evacuation order. And in the orbit of things that you get, this one was like, oh, wow, this is bad. Fortunately, Congress is out of session. It was late on a Wednesday evening. There was probably very few people within the Capitol complex and the office buildings, but it did create a mini panic. Turns out there was an aircraft in restricted airspace, but it was authorized. It was a military plane. It was part of a flyover event. They actually had parachuters come out of the plane at the local baseball stadium, which is very close to the Capitol. It was part of Military Appreciation Night. And the thing I can't let go about it is, you know, this kind of stuff happens all the time in DC and there's a protocol. Like everybody that needs to know needs to know that there's

going to be an airplane in the sky at this point. It's not something you have to worry about. Somebody forgot to tell the Capitol Police this time. And I can't let it go because I just always think of like when these kind of screw ups happen, and I'll tell you, Speaker Nancy Pelosi is mad about this. Oh, her statement was flaming hot. She's like, whoever at the FAA, like somebody's head needs to roll. But I'm just thinking, you know, obviously this is a human error. And that poor person or persons who just like forgot to send the email, right? Like it really probably just comes down to simple human error. And, you know, you open up – how many times have you like opened up an email and forgot to hit send on it?

Stuck in the outbox. Thought you made the phone call. Yes. Maybe your inbox is over its limit and it didn't go out. So I can't let it go because I think about whoever that person is. Man, they had a really bad week at work. All right. I think that is a wrap for us today.

Our executive producers, Mathoni Mottori. Our editors are Eric McDaniel and Krishna of Calamore. Our producers are Lexi Schapittle, Elena Moore, and Casey Morrell. Thanks to Brandon Carter. I'm Susan Davis. I cover Congress. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House.

And I'm Tamara Keith. I also cover the White House. And thanks for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.