The NPR Politics Podcast - Weekly Roundup: April 24th, 2020

Episode Date: April 24, 2020

Doubts grow over the next phase of the coronavirus relief plan. And, the coronavirus outbreak has reshaped how top strategists are approaching congressional campaigns.This episode: congressional correspondents Kelsey Snell and Susan Davis, and White House correspondent Scott Detrow.Email the show at [e-mail] Join the Facebook group at n.pr/politicsgroup Subscribe to our newsletter at npr.org/politicsnewsletter Find and support your local public radio station at donate.npr.orgLearn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Katherine in Seattle, just waiting for my black hair dye to set in because that sounded fun and nobody's here to stop me. This podcast was recorded at... It's 1-11 Eastern on Friday, April 24th. I probably don't have bangs yet, but other things may have changed by the time you hear this. All right, here's the show. Ooh boy, I feel that impulse in my bones. All right, here's the show.

Oh boy, I feel that impulse in my bones. I'm nervous for her, though. Black hair dye is a commitment, Catherine. It's a commitment. Let me tell you, one time I dyed my hair blue-black and I looked like a witch for six months. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Scott Detrow. I'm covering the White House.

I'm Susan Davis. I cover Congress. And I'm Kelsey Snell. I also cover Congress. We are talking about an interim relief package that President Trump just signed into law. And by interim, I mean bigger than almost anything we had ever covered passing Congress, half a trillion dollars. And this is just the latest in an astounding amount of money that Congress has doled out to help deal with the economic fallout of this pandemic. Overall, how much money has Congress agreed to spend so far? I did the math yesterday with a little bit of help from Sue because it takes two Congress reporters to add. And it's around $2.8 trillion. And that is more than the Treasury Department takes in in tax revenue

in a normal year. These are radical sums of money. I mean, and radicalizing sums of money in, quote unquote, normal political times. If you think about back to the financial crisis, what was essentially a drop in the bucket to what we're talking now was also the kind of spending and governmental and economic unrest that spurred things like the Tea Party movement that really sort of electrified the country. I mean, these are just sort of mind-bending sums of money. And frankly, I don't even know if the country's been able to sort of absorb it yet because people, so many more people are dealing with this crisis in their own lives

versus the financial crisis, which for a lot of people, it seems sort of abstract. It was about Wall Street. It was about the financial markets. This is like a kitchen table crisis. Yeah. And this is all worth underscoring because there's a push for a lot more money, specifically from Democrats who say state and local governments who have seen their tax revenue basically entirely disappear at a time where they are being taxed. They're saying that state and local governments need assistance as well. Well, the governors are saying the same thing. So it isn't just even in Congress. The bipartisan leaders of the National Governors Association are asking for $500 billion to be spent however they need to spend it, including shoring up their budgets. Because we should

remind people, states cannot declare bankruptcy. Some local governments can, but if they run out of money, their only option is to cut services or to cut, you know, wherever they can in their budget. I don't think there's any doubt that Congress is going to have to pass one more money and two money that will have to be directed to states and local governments in some capacity. But how much and how they do it is probably going to be the next or maybe first big political fight of this crisis. Because so far, all this money, all this money that's gone out the door has done so in overwhelmingly bipartisan fashion. They have passed by unanimous consent through the Senate. There was just five dissenters in the House vote last night. I think we're

starting to see the sort of familiar political battle lines being drawn over what would be the fifth package, and arguably could be once again, over a trillion dollars, maybe $2 trillion, depending on how bad the economy or how good the economy does in the coming weeks and months. The one of the things that has changed the dynamic a little bit is something that Mitch McConnell, the Senate Majority, said about assisting states. What did he say? Well, he was on, he said it a couple times, but he first said it on, he was doing a radio interview with Hugh Hewitt on his radio program and suggested that he would not be open to sort of a blank check for states and suggested that maybe one way out of this would be for states to declare bankruptcy. We all represent states. We all have governors, regardless of party, who would love to have free

money. And that's why I said yesterday, we're going to push the pause button here, because I think this whole business of additional assistance for state and local governments needs to be thoroughly evaluated. I will point out that as much as that this is happening in the politics in Washington, they're hearing a lot from voters and everyday people who just want the problem solved. They see themselves, they see their family members, they see people they know out of work, they see people in hospitals, they see nurses and doctors begging for protective equipment, and that scrambles the way people think about money. And McConnell's comments to Hugh Hewitt really sort of stirred up a political conversation because New York Governor Andrew Cuomo took McConnell's

statements and made an issue of them at his own briefing. It's one of the dumb statements of all time. Mitch McConnell, they're talking about bringing back the economy, and then he says states should declare bankruptcy. How does that help the national economy? States should declare bankruptcy. He then says this is a bailout to the blue states, which was a really offensive statement. New York obviously being one of those high revenue states that pays more money into the system than they get back. So a lot of these packages have come together with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, the minority leader in the Senate, having a lot of these packages have come together with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi

and Chuck Schumer, the minority leader in the Senate, having a lot of leverage. And they've been negotiating mostly with Steve Mnuchin, the Treasury Secretary from the Trump administration. What, if anything, has President Trump's role been in all of these negotiations over these massive, historically unprecedented spending bills? Well, in the case of this most recent bill, he tweeted at the very end,, in the case of this most recent bill, he tweeted at the very end, right as the bill was about to come out, that he would sign it. That was basically his only contribution to that negotiation. It's interesting, too, because the speaker has been asked this, and she has said she hasn't had any direct communication with the president in

quite some time. The speaker and Chuck Schumer negotiate almost directly with the Treasury Secretary. Now, of course, the President has dispatched him, clearly trusts him, and he's been able to cut four deals already with Democrats. So they're doing something right. It's just sort of fascinating that in legislation this important, there's so little communication between the President and the leaders on Capitol Hill. Yeah. All right, we're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll talk about the politics of all of this, specifically what it means for the congressional races in November. Outdoor cameras alert you to anyone approaching your home, and entry, motion, and glass break sensors guard the inside. Plus, SimpliSafe protects your home from fires, water damage, and carbon monoxide.

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But now, former Surgeon General Vivek Murthy says it's important to make space to just be. Simply spending five minutes just listening to the birds chirping or to the conversation around you. Solitude and ways to overcome loneliness on the next Hidden Brain from NPR. And we are back. So this is probably not our first, but one of many reminders this year that yes, there is a presidential election, but there is also congressional elections.

Every House seat, a third of the Senate seats, they're up. That is the thing that happens every other year. Sue, let's start with the obvious. As Congress is passing these massive spending bills, they're also figuring out how to run for re-election in a radically different environment than they anticipated. It's so true. And the thing that I found was really interesting is I spent a lot of the past week talking to Republican and Democratic strategists who are working directly on House and Senate races in 2020. And one of the things that stuck out to me is that so often, especially in this podcast, we've said things like, well, we don't know what voters are going to be thinking about in November. And we don't know if things like impeachment are going to

matter in November. And to the one, everyone I talked to said, nope, this, this is going to be the central focus of the 2020 elections. It's like everyone has agreed that both the combined effects of the pandemic, the health crisis, and the economic fallout will not only be sort of the defining factor, but could be the only thing that voters are thinking about when they decide who to vote for in November. Because even the best, best, best case scenario of this, it's still a very long timeline that gets us pretty close to the election before things start to even look kind of normal. Exactly. And I think any realistic take is that, you know, the economy is not going to be back to where it was before this come November. And also the warnings from public health officials that we could be going through another wave of social distancing or other measures for the fall cold and flu season, which is also going to happen to fall

right in the middle of election season. So it's been a clarifying event, I think, on the political landscape. And I think campaigns are trying to figure out how to sort of maneuver around that, especially because so many candidates are just like us, right? They're stuck in their homes. They're not able to go door to door. They're not having traditional campaign events. So it has really had the effect of both intensifying our campaign season and also pausing it at the same time. I mean, even if they could go door to door, can you imagine answering your door for a politician who's knocking? Like this is not the situation where people are really going to even trust those interactions. And there, one person I talked to was talking about how they had made giant ad buys with the expectation of running ads all about impeachment. And it spent tons of money on

building impeachment ads and impeachment-related ad campaign, and those are all gone. I mean, generally speaking, when unemployment is at a level approaching the Great Depression, it's not a good thing for the party in power. But when we're talking about Congress, Democrats control the House and Republicans control the Senate. Do you have any sense about whether this landscape makes it easier for one party to retake control of either chamber? Well, I would say from the top line, I don't think things have dramatically changed

in that House Democrats are still pretty much seen as favored to hold on to the House majority. The differences in the Senate, which was at the beginning of this campaign cycle, seen as leaning Republican, and as we've gotten closer to the election, has certainly gone more directly in the toss-up category from the pandemic

and many other factors. And I think people see the Senate as very much in play now. And the possibility of even a 50-50 Senate, which could be decided by who wins the White House, is also a possibility. And so one of the Republicans I talked to, Stephen Law, said this moment could be good for Republicans in that moments of crisis tend to favor incumbents. And that's for a couple of reasons. One is they kind of drown out their competitors, right? Like the people getting the most media attention right now are the actual elected officials. And there isn't much room for the campaign season for your opponents to break through.

And if you're seen as doing a good job because the public is so tuned into what you're doing right now, it gives them an opportunity to potentially break away from whatever view of their broader party that they have. For instance, in Maine, where Susan Collins is running in a competitive race, if Maine sees her as doing a good job in managing the crisis for the state, she might be able to appeal to voters who might think that Donald Trump isn't doing a great job nationally. Now, that margin is pretty small. Most people will tell you it's probably only a couple percentage points in an election. But we do anticipate a lot of these races are going to be pretty close. But let me ask the flip side of that, though, because with Collins and with a few other Republicans up in states that are trending Democratic on the presidential level, there's been a clear strategy from Democrats of tying everything the president does to people like Susan Collins, like Cory Gardner in Colorado, saying they are enabling him to do X, Y, Z. As we have seen his

approval numbers drop specifically for how he is handling this crisis, do you think that the argument against those lawmakers is, look, Trump said X, Trump said Y, Trump did this. That is all on Susan Collins or Gardner or anybody else. Yeah, I mean, there is going to be a certain point where they can't escape the president. And this could be a good thing or a bad thing. The president's approval ratings have dipped recently, but they've stayed within the same floor and ceiling that he's essentially existed in throughout his presidency. If he's back towards the ceiling of that come November, that's a better place for them to be in. But if the bottom comes out, there's only so much you can do if the top of the ticket

is losing, right? And so one of the states that almost everyone I talked to said that if you want one state to watch to see how this election is going to play out, both on the presidency and for control of the Senate, North Carolina. Everyone's focused on North Carolina. Sue, but this isn't exactly normal times, right? In normal times, senators or elected officials could participate in the process of legislating or of, you know, of coming up with solutions. But by and large, this is everything that we have seen. All $2.8 trillion have been negotiated by leadership. And at least in the Senate's example, they didn't vote. There's no recorded vote to even say that somebody voted for this spending. So I guess I wonder if it will be

harder for them to take advantage of saying that they fought for their state if there's no real direct evidence that they did. Well, there is a little bit of indication that the public is giving Congress credit right now, too, right? Which is good for all incumbents, is that the Gallup poll that was out last week showed that congressional approval ratings jumped 16 points in the past month, which is- To what, 18? Yeah. Again, they came out of the single digits. Yes. We're grading on a curve here, believe me. But Congress is now at the highest approval it's been since 2009, which is, again, when Washington was doing a lot of intervention into the economy and into the country. So I think right now, this is one of those things where we absorb the nitty gritty of campaigns, but most people are just seeing Congress working.

They're seeing them getting something done. And they're seeing help being sent. And that is essentially what people say they want from their government whenever you across the ideological spectrum. Now, at the end, how they decide which party did a better job of it is sort of the big million dollar question. And another one of the strategists I talked to, Tim Phillips, he's with Americans for Prosperity, which is a right leaning group.

They're very much engaged in congressional races. His theory is that what the net effect of this has been is that it has dramatically broadened the pool of possible swing voters in that times of crisis, people, especially the ones that hadn't already made up their minds, those ideological lines evaporate even faster and that there's going to be a bigger pool of swing voters and candidates are going to have less time to campaign for them. And that's why his take is that like this is just all of our sort of senses about 2020 have been thrown out the window and it's going to be a really wildly unpredictable year. Right. All right. We're going to take a quick break and come back with Can't Let It Go, which is something that I decided what

I couldn't let go of days ago. This never happens for me. I'm very excited to talk about it, and I'm going to go get my drink-making materials. Support for this podcast and the following message come from the Annie E. Casey Foundation, developing solutions to support strong families and communities to help ensure a brighter future for America's children. More information is available at aecf.org. Hey, it's Guy Raz from NPR's How I Built This. And each week on the show, during this unprecedented crisis, I'll be asking some of the top founders and builders how they're dealing with the economic impact of the coronavirus

and hear about some of the ways they're pivoting to fight it. Subscribe or listen now to How I Built This. All right, we are back with the favorite part of the show for me, Can't Let It Go, where on Fridays we talk about the one thing we can't stop thinking about, politics or otherwise. Sue, you go first. The thing I can't let go this week, I can't even sleep at night thinking about it, to be perfectly honest, and it's Senator Mark Warner's tuna melt sandwich. That was horrifying.

If you have not seen this, Senator Mark Warner, he's a Democrat from Virginia, and he, like the rest of us, is stuck at home and decided to post a video on Instagram of him making one of his favorite sandwiches. And it's a tuna melt. First of all, two pieces of bread. Put them out on the plate. Open up the mayonnaise. And he makes the most disgusting tuna melt sandwich in humanity. And I say this as someone who loves a tuna melt sandwich and who has recently made a tuna melt sandwich during my own

self-imposed quarantine here. Has he never seen a tuna melt? That was my question walking away. Does he not know that it can be good? Look, I respect a trash sandwich. We all have weird things that we like, but he just takes something that can be so perfect and made it in the most grotesque way. He just takes plain bread and puts ungodly amounts of mayonnaise on it. I love mayo. I know my kids hate mayo, but make sure you get plenty on both sides. But the real travesty is the tuna he puts on it, he doesn't even drain the can, guys. Like he just adds like wet tuna onto the bread. My personal preference is chicken with a C.

Puts cheese on it and then just pops it in the microwave. Like no toast, no crunch, like nothing. It was just, and then he takes it out and just pops it in the microwave like no toast no no crunch like nothing it was just and then he takes it out and he eats it tuna melt extraordinaire it prompted all kinds of anger angry reactions uh all over the country in my mind at least um senator kamala harris did a video chat with him to try and show him how to teach a better tuna melt how to make a better tuna melt she made a much better tuna melt in my professional opinion. But, you know, it's... And that she just drained the can to begin with? That alone will make a better tuna melt sandwich.

Didn't microwave it. I like to do a squeeze of lemon. Oh, lemon as well? Holy sugar. Just a squeeze. Look at that. Although, as someone pointed out, maybe it was like one long subversive thing

to get people to wash their hands because while he's microwaving his tuna melt sandwich, he washes his hands for 20 minutes. But he washed his hands after he made the sandwich. Shouldn't he have washed them first? He did say that his staff and his kids told him not to put it on Instagram and he was like, I'm going to do this anyway. I think he legitimately likes that trash sandwich. I just think that when public officials don't have their staff telling them not to make mistakes, they make crazy decisions. It was a crazy decision.

If we can just kind of get that sandwich out of our brains for the rest of this conversation as best we can. Shake it out. Kelsey, what about you? What can you not let go of? I can't let go of the fact that they're doing a Parks and Recreation reunion, and I'm really, really excited. I did not know this.

Oh, I'm so excited. If there's anything – you did not know this? No. Oh, break it. Yay! So they're doing a one-time written and taped after all of this coronavirus stay-at-home stuff reunion for Parks and Rec. And I'm really excited because I think we do need a moment

where there's just an uncynical love of being friends and caring about the people around you and actually caring about taking care of one another. And I'm also really excited because it gives me a reason to break out my adorable new mini waffle maker. It's so small. What are you making, one waffle at a time? It's the smallest waffle maker I've ever seen.

What are they, waffles for ants? I haven't used it yet, but I was having this moment like a week ago, and I was like, I really feel like I need a waffle. One very tiny waffle? I guess. I don't know that Leslie Knope would be proud of my waffle maker, but I think she would applaud the effort. I'll be treating myself.

Thank you very much. No, I'm really excited, and I can't wait to see all of our favorite characters back. I'm excited. So actually, before I go, we are going to do something we did last week for the first time, and that is a listener can't let it go. We asked people on our Facebook group to submit what they can't let go of, and here's this week's. Hi, this is Benjamin and Mary in Washington, D.C. I can't let go of our cat, who doesn't know why we're

home all the time. He's constantly trying to get out into the hallway. It's like he wants to leave in social distance from us. We don't understand. We're happy to be here. I love this idea of cats being like tortured by everyone staying at home. Like, please, people, get out of here. I know, my cats just want to take a nap and the baby just wants to play with them. So I do imagine they probably would like it if he would get out of here. Did you see the Wall Street Journal last week did a joke op-ed from a cat and a dog and the cat was like, you all need to go back to work. And the dog was like, I think we should all stay at home for forever. That's about right. I don't have either a cat or a dog, but I have had both at certain points in my life and it felt

very correct for how animals are feeling about this pandemic. For sure. I think so. So Scott, what can't you let go? The karmic polar opposite of Mark Warner's sandwich. You could all use a palate cleanser. Yes, this is most definitely that in taste, in aesthetic, in tone, in everything. It was delightful.

Stanley Tucci at home. Just a video on Instagram of him making a Negroni. And it was like, it was how I think I envisioned myself making a Negroni and that he was like, well dressed, he looked good. There was jazz. Like in reality, I'm wearing like a Derek Jeter jersey from 2002 and pajama pants. And it's not, you know, this, but it was just, it was delightful and classy and relaxing. And I just watched it a few times and I was soothed.

And the thing I liked the most about it was that did either did either of you ever read the website the toast which sadly does not exist anymore oh yeah yeah so my favorite it was like a humor website my favorite article ever was this like hypothetical if stanley tucci was your boyfriend just like going through different things about it and i was like stanley tucci making this negroni right now is the embodiment of if Stanley Tucci was your boyfriend. So I thought we could end this by making Negronis and reading aloud from parts of if Stanley Tucci was your boyfriend, if that works for you. Sign me up. Do we all just happen to have our Negroni ingredients with us?

Oddly, I do happen to have these right next to me today. So Stanley Tucci is a shaker, but I am more of a stirrer myself when I make cocktails at home. I've got my spoon. I've got my cup with the ice in it. So we're going to start with gin, and as I get started, I will read aloud. If Stanley Tucci were your boyfriend, he would occasionally turn to you, smile warmly, and call you champ while wearing a scarf. He would also call you sport. You would find it endearing and waggish, and not in the least patronizing. If Stanley Tucci were your boyfriend, the two of you would go dancing,

but he'd never make a big deal out of it. If Stanley Tucci were your boyfriend, your dad would refer to him genially as the Tucci. Come to the house this weekend and bring the Tucci with you. So, you're stirring, I'm going to shake. I'm going to shake for some good radio sound here. You're shaking, I'm stirring. Any Stanley Tucci drink, I feel like, would have a proper orange peel, which I have done. Oh, you're really prepared.

Yeah. I'm going to stick that in. So you have the nicest Negronis. I've got my... Cheers. Cheers, guys. Happy Friday. Happy Friday. All right.

And if you were listening to this on the podcast, a reminder, we've been posting the videos where you can see us making these Negronis on our NPR Facebook group. You can join it at n.pr slash politics

group to request to join. Before I drink all of this Negroni, I will finish the credits for the show. That is a wrap for today.

Our executive producer is Shirley Henry. Our editors are Mathani Maturi and Eric McDaniel. Our producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Shirley Henry. Our editors are Mathani Maturi and Eric McDaniel. Our producer is Barton Girdwood. Our production assistant is Chloe Weiner. Thanks to Lexi Schipittel, Dana Farrington, Brandon Carter, and Elena Moore.

I'm Scott Detrow. I cover the White House. I'm Susan Davis. I cover Congress. And I'm Kelsey Snell. I also cover Congress. Cheers, and thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.