The NPR Politics Podcast - Weekly Roundup: February 4th

Episode Date: February 4, 2022

The South Carolina Republican was a steadfast ally for Donald Trump in Congress, but he voted to impeach the former president after he experienced the attack on the Capitol. Now, Trump has endorsed a primary opponent. And Democrats contend with how to reform the Iowa caucuses after 2020's goat rodeo.This episode: White House correspondent Asma Khalid, senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro, South Carolina Public Radio reporter Victoria Hansen and Iowa Public Radio reporter Clay Masters.Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio station.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Kareed in Atlanta, Georgia, and I'm about to get on a plane to head to New Jersey to celebrate my parents' 50th wedding anniversary. This podcast was recorded at 109 p.m. on Friday, February 4th. Things may have changed by the time you hear it. Happy anniversary, Mom and Dad. Okay, here's the show. I love that. Happy anniversary to your mom and dad. Wow. That's a long time to be together, too. That's like also impressive to me when people are together for that long. You know, just it's impressive. For sure. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House.

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. Tom Rice is a Republican congressman from South Carolina. And back when Donald Trump was president, he voted in line with Trump 90 percent of the time. Still, that might not be enough to save his political career back home in South Carolina. Rice is running for reelection to the House of Representatives, and he's now facing a primary challenge from an opponent endorsed by Donald Trump. And that is because he voted to impeach the former president after the attack on the Capitol. So today on the show, we are joined by a special guest to help us understand the story. That's Victoria Hansen of South Carolina

Public Radio. She has been following Rice's reelection bid. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you for having me. So Victoria, let us start with understanding better. Why is it that a man who voted with Trump 90% of the time would ultimately choose to impeach former President Donald Trump? Yeah, that's a good question. That's a lot of that's a question a lot of his constituents are asking. But it all goes down to January 6. What happened that day? What he witnessed? What he experienced? What he felt? When I interviewed him for about an hour and a half at his home in Myrtle Beach, he was so reflective on the year. You know, it goes down to that day again. He shared with me some pictures and he just talks about the entire time wondering where the president was, the former president, President Trump at that time, where he was during this violence.

As he was, you know, escorted from the House floor, as he watched Capitol Police officers heavily armed, as he watched officers who were bloody and beaten as he made his way between buildings to safety, the entire time he wondered, where is President Trump? And so in the days after this, when he realized, he says, that the president was in the Oval Office watching the violence unfold on television, surrounded by Secret Service, he decided then that the president at the time was responsible, Trump was responsible for that attack. So he says when it came time for the impeachment vote, he said it really wasn't a tough decision. He pushed the button, and he got calls immediately from people who thought that he

had just, you know, made a mistake. And if the consequences are that the people think that what happened is OK, then, you know, I guess I'm not the guy. You know, Rice is basically he knows that he's going to pay the consequences for this decision. He's paying for them right now from very angry constituents, protesters showing up at events. That is what's resonating with people in the 7th Congressional District. They say they feel betrayed. And he decides to vote against our guy and try to impeach him? He doesn't represent us. He doesn't need us anymore. That seems to trump any of the other issues that he talks about, the things he said he did. Like, you know, there were three storms over five years. And I can remember him getting the federal assistance. I can remember him being with the former president, touring the devastation as this talk of money was being made. And the money's here. The money is being spent. Homes have been rebuilt. But still, the thing that people are talking about in the 7th Congressional District is, Republicans anyway, is this vote to impeach. Yeah, and a couple points on this. You know, I really think listening to that,

it proves that our politics are not really about policy right now, as opposed to about personality. I mean, of course, they want someone who lines up with them, but just lining up with them isn't enough. You know, the other thing is, this is one of those test cases. You know, we've heard repeatedly people saying, well, if they think this or Republicans say things in private, like they think the president was to blame for January 6th, or they don't approve of his tweets or any of the other things that the former President Trump has said or done, then why don't they speak out? Well, you know, and I always say, look at these politicians through the lens of winning. And when you have an 85% or so incumbency rate, meaning 85% of incumbents win reelection, they don't want this kind of problem behind them if they want to stay in office.

I think this is one of those cases that's going to show whether you can have that kind of courage and still win, or if by doing something like this, you lose. And for some people, that's fine. They will lose and think, you know, I went down with my integrity. So, Victoria, it sounds like Trump is endorsing Congressman Rice's opponent, largely in opposition to Rice. But is there more there? I mean, who is the man running against Congressman Rice? This is an endorsement that the district has been waiting for. There were at one time 12 challengers to Congressman Tom Rice at a time, you know, he's never really had a primary challenge. Nobody's really challenged him. He could have kept this job. I'm told by the Republican

Party chair for that district, he could have kept this job forever, right? If he had not made this decision, if he had not voted to impeach. So everyone's been kind of waiting to see, will the crowd dwindle? And just this week, the former president endorsed state representative Russell Fry here in South Carolina. And interestingly enough, just two days before that endorsement, Fry had posted in a Facebook post, a video post. He was basically updating constituents on what is going on in the statehouse. But then he kind of turned towards election integrity. And he came out and said the words, the presidential election was rigged. Two days later, he's getting the endorsement.

Oh, wow. Yeah, you know, it's pretty common that what we've seen nationally with former President Trump, he's endorsed tons of candidates. Oh, wow. continuing to give voice to Trump's election lies at a time, by the way, when Trump is really escalating a lot of his racist rhetoric while he also talks about the lie that he won the 2020 presidential election because he could never find an off-ramp from his loss in 2020. So, Domenico, what we're seeing with Congressman Rice is not particularly unusual, you're saying. I mean, these are the kinds of consequences that are facing the handful of Republicans who did support impeachment nationwide. I mean, at least those of them who did Representative Adam Kinzinger, all for being part of the January 6th committee investigating what happened January 6th. So even if you're investigating it, that's out of bounds for this current Trump run, essentially Republican Party. So is there room for people like that? You know, I think it's a

very volatile time for the Republican Party, as it is for our politics writ large. And when that kind of thing, when that kind of volatility is happening, I think it's very difficult to make predictions of how this is going to fall out, who's going to wind up winning in the end. You know, and a lot of this is going to hinge on whether Trump runs again in 2024. You know, I should add, too, I mean, it's not like, you know, let's not count Rice out here. Because, you know, we still have fewer than, you know, probably eight

or nine last track. I think it was eight. It keeps changing. And again, we don't, this state doesn't, the filing is in March, and the primary is until June. But it depends upon the number of challengers that he has going into this primary, right? And then the other thing is, we have an open primary. And I did talk to some Democratic voters who said they didn't really want to talk about it on mic, you know, but they said, hey, we really like what he's done. We feel like he did morally the right thing. And we don't necessarily disagree with some conservative policies and fiscal responsibility. And, you know, I might vote for the guy. All right. Well, Victoria Hansen of South Carolina Public Radio, thank you so much for coming on.

I really do appreciate it. Yeah, it was my pleasure. It's always fascinating to talk about these issues. And, you know, in South Carolina, politics is never boring. I imagine not. I imagine not. I want to hear, in South Carolina, politics is never boring. I imagine not. I imagine not. I want to hear more, too, as this story unfolds. I hope that we do get a chance to have you back on once that primary comes up. And we are going to take a quick break. We'll have lots more to talk about in just a moment. And we're back. So remember two years ago today. The reporting of the results and circumstances surrounding the 2020 Iowa Democratic Party caucuses were unacceptable. As chair of the party, I apologize deeply for this.

That was former Iowa Democratic Party chair Troy Price the day after the 2020 Iowa caucuses. I think it is maybe an understatement to say that they were a big, big mess. But we are joined by an expert who knows lots about the Iowa caucuses process. That is Clay Masters of Iowa Public Radio and a longtime friend of our podcast. Thanks for joining us. Yeah, good to be back. Hey, Clay. So, Clay, remind folks what happened on that fateful day, days in February of 2020. So we were supposed to learn the results of the Iowa caucuses on that morning. Eventually, what we did find out was that Pete Buttigieg and Bernie Sanders basically tied, right? Like, so Bernie Sanders got the best totals for people coming in.

Think of it like the popular vote, but Pete Buttigieg won the equivalent of an electoral vote in the Iowa caucus. I mean, right? Like this is a confusing thing to explain. Yeah, the problem was that they were supposed to have an app. There were a lot of problems with this app for reporting the results that people were flagging ahead of time, and it was just a total mess. They tried to introduce this technology. It didn't work. We didn't get results. The winners, quote unquote, didn't get any momentum. And it was not, you know, and you don't get many delegates out of Iowa anyway. So it's there for momentum. And it just fell flat. technological and logistical hiccups that we saw in 2020, there were already criticisms about the Iowa caucuses, even among Democrats before 2020. Definitely. Oh, definitely. I mean,

this is something that you hear time and time again. Number one, a caucus is not the same thing as a primary vote. People on the Democratic side have to gather in gymnasiums at schools or in the basement of churches and physically move around. People make a case for a candidate and then there are different levels of support and you've got to move around. The Republican side, they just vote on a – they write their name down of the candidate and put it in a hat basically. So it's a little bit differently. So the caucus process is seen as time consuming, and it's limiting, disenfranchising for who can show up to vote. So the caucuses themselves, they've been a problem. And then also the fact that Iowa is an overwhelmingly white state.

There's not a whole lot of diversity when you look at it compared to the rest of the country. So there are all of these different things that are layered on top of it and it's just – this just added gasoline to the fire basically. And I was going to say that matters because the Democratic Party has just become so much more diverse, especially because the Democratic side, you've got far more non-white groups that are included and they've been growing as opposed to the Republican Party, which remains over 90, 95% white generally. So, you know, there's a lot more voices who had started to talk about this really in 2008, about why is Iowa first given it's an overwhelmingly white state, it's not representative. And, you know, Joe Biden, for example, really owed his candidacy, his nomination to black voters in particular. And if you had a more diverse electorate up front, then Biden's campaign wouldn't have looked like it was struggling as much as it was. So we're in a really different time and you're starting to hear way more voices, especially non-white voices within the Democratic Party saying, look, this needs to change. So I want to ask you guys more about those

voices and that criticism that's been mounting because it has been there, I would say, at a sort of low level for a long time. We've been hearing criticism about the Iowa caucuses, but it seems that the discussions have now reached a higher level of intensity. Is that fair to say, Clay? Yeah, that is. I mean, there was this rules and bylaws committee that met for the first time for the Democratic National Committee last weekend on Saturday. And this was a time for a discussion to take place about the calendar. You know, some new members who were a part of it. There's one Iowan who was on it. But it was a time to kind of talk about, well, what do we think of this calendar? And while Iowa was not kind of like called out outright, and they weren't talking about the app, they weren't penalizing Iowa by any of the things

they were saying, the subtext of this conversation on the 29th of January was very, very, it would have been uncomfortable to be an Iowan who wanted the Iowa caucuses to remain first for the Democrats because many of the DNC members that were on that call were just voicing their concerns about this. Here's DNC party member Yvette Lewis, who's from Maryland. Any hint of suppression or exclusion, whether intentional or incidental. We need to look at and make sure that we are not guilty of the same things that we are accusing the other side of. So it sounds like indirectly there, she is saying that the Iowa caucuses by nature are an exclusionary process that perhaps does not really represent the full diversity of the Democratic Party. Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, that was the overall theme.

So the Democratic National Committee is trying to potentially change the order here, but they want to do it through consensus. They're not just going to choose a new state and put it at the front of the line. Yeah, but look at the year we're in, right? I mean, it's 2022. So we are two years away from when we're going to have the first caucuses and primaries. So for the states that want to change the calendar, for the people who want to make that moral argument and make their voices heard, they got to get in on the ground floor of this now. And that's why we're starting to hear about it. And that's what the Iowa Democratic Party chair, when I was talking to him about this, I mean, he was saying, you know, you've heard that, of course, he's making the case for the Iowa caucuses to remain first. But he was saying, you know, it's more like you've heard that old expression of it's more of a sprint, not a marathon. Well, he's saying this is more like a 10K because it's 2022 and he's got to make the

case now if Iowa is going to keep its place on the Democratic side. All right. Well, stick around. We are going to take a quick break. And when we get back, it is your and my favorite time of the show. Time for Can't Let It Go. And we're back. And it is time now for Can't Let It Go. That's the part of the show where we talk about the things that we just cannot stop thinking about, politics or otherwise. And Clay, since you are a special guest on our show, why don't you kick it off for us? Okay, so I still can't let go of what's going on with Spotify. You guys are familiar with this because I think you talked about it last week.

But you had Neil Young recently, who I didn't realize that there were that many people that were listening to Neil Young, that this would be this big of a conversation. By way of full disclosure, I'm a Neil Young fan. I've seen him live. But we were seeing more people drop out. Remember, this was – he said it's either me or Joe Rogan, the podcast that's very popular on Spotify that has had a lot of misinformation about the coronavirus vaccine. But you've seen other people now saying, take my music off there, Crosby, Stills & Nash, Joni Mitchell, all of these different musicians. And I read somewhere online too that this is having billions of dollars of impact on Spotify.

I mean this thing is just going on way longer than I thought it would go on. It's going to be really fascinating to see if bigger artists, more current, who people really want to download their stuff, are going to take their stuff off. I'm not saying Neil Young and Crosby, Stills, and Nash aren't huge groups. But if we're talking about Beyonce or Cardi B, Kendrick Lamar, if we start seeing artists like that who are saying, you know what? I'm going to take my stuff and put it in a place that I want it. I think we're going to see more of a crack up. It motivated me to get out some Neil Young records like on vinyl. A tribute to him. All right.

Well, what about you, Domenico? Well, what I can't let go of is Wordle. And it's not because I play Wordle. It's because Wordle was sold. Just as I started to figure out what Wordle is, it's not even owned by Wordle anymore. Have you not played it at all, Domenico? Seriously? No, I haven't either.

So I was a slow adapter. I was a not, you know, but I will say it's like kind of fun. I bet it is. And, you know, I heard the creator of it on NPR talking about how he really just made it to be simple, not have all the kind of addictive qualities of other guys. And it really sort of took off. You know, I mean, he started, he didn't really do it for anybody except for his partner. And it wound up with millions of people playing.

And now the New York Times bought it on Monday and apparently for a figure in the low seven figures. I know. That's crazy, right? Well, look, hats off to him. I mean, way to cash in. No shame. It's the American dream, right? I think it's been really interesting just to see the pattern of when people play Wordle because, okay, so I host Morning Edition at Iowa Public Radio and I'll have Twitter open really early in the morning. And then all of a sudden it's like the farmers

have gone out to milk the cows, right? All the wordles are filling up all my news feeds. And then do they come back at night at like 9 p.m. or something? That's right. I do recommend it, guys, though. It's like it's a quick game you can literally just play in five minutes, which is maybe what makes it so much fun. I feel like there's no real investment to it. You could just play it and be done. I love that now that I'm convinced to play, it's going to cost me something. I know, right?

This offer won't last long. That's right. Okay. Well, Asma, what can't you let go of? Okay. So I must have a full disclosure here and let you all know this comes courtesy of our dear producer, Lexi, who tipped me off to this. So thank you for that.

San Diego Zoo, ahead of Valentine's Day, has this fundraiser that is called Cry Me a Cockroach. Yeah, I know the title's a bit random. But apparently it allows you to donate money, like I think as little as $5, where you can then basically watch them. They will send you a video if you give a certain amount of dollars to them

to symbolically name a cockroach or a rodent after your ex, and they will feed it to an animal on your behalf. Oh, wow. I know, right? They said, wait, if you read on, they do say that essentially you can upgrade your donation to a personalized option where they will send you a personalized video message of your cockroach, rodent, or veggie. I know, that doesn't sound as much fun, being fed to one of the animals.

They will keep it PG-13, of course. So that is a limited option. But anyhow, I thought that this was, like, weirdly wild and kind of on fire. Thoughts? I don't even know where to start. Honestly, I think people need to work on themselves and stop trying to be petty and get everybody back and drag people.

But it's for a good cause, Dominica. You help the zoo. Well, give a donation to the zoo but work on yourself. So don't go feed a cockroach. Just spend more time on word games. Alright, well that is a wrap for today. Clay, thank you very much for joining us. It's always so much fun to have you on. Yeah, fun to be here. Thanks. Our executive producer is Muthoni Mutturi. Our editors are

Eric McDaniel and Krishna Dev Kalamar. Our producers are Lexi Shapiro and Elena Moore. Thanks to Brandon Carter. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And thank you all, as always, for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.