The NPR Politics Podcast - Weekly Roundup: February 5th

Episode Date: February 5, 2021

In his first major foreign policy address since assuming office, President Biden promised that the country would once again be a reliable ally to its partners. And Kamala Harris faces a common vice presidential dilemma: what is my role in this administration?This episode: congressional correspondent Susan Davis, White House correspondent Scott Detrow, and White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez. Connect:Subscribe to the NPR Politics Podcast here.Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Listen to our playlist The NPR Politics Daily Workout.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio station.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hey there, this is Scott Detrow's mom. What? And for the first time, we're spending the winter in sunny Florida. But today, Dad and I are celebrating because we just got our second COVID shot. This podcast was recorded at... I cannot! No! 1.14 p.m. on Friday, February 5th!

That's awesome. Things may have changed by the time you hear this. And I can't wait to safely hug my toddler grandson. Um, and his parents, too. Okay, here's the show. Scott, how embarrassed are you right now? A little bit. Is this like your mom showing up at school?

A little bit. A little tears. A little tears, a little tears maybe. I feel a little emotional. That was so sweet. I feel emotional. This is like the vibe I wanted to start this podcast on. And yet I was just telling everyone my parents got vaccinated and our producers told me to please shut up so we could take the podcast.

And I'm just going to say that. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Susan Davis. I cover Congress. I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the White House. And I'm Scott Detrow. I cover the White House. And a word of warning before we get going today. You might hear some hammering or some drilling on my end of the podcast. My apologies, but I'm getting some work done in my home. And this is the realities of work from home life. But today we're going to talk about President Biden, who gave his first foreign policy address yesterday. Before we get started and talk about the specifics of this speech,

I want to ask if the Biden administration has outlined sort of what their broader philosophy is here on their foreign policy agenda, especially coming out of the former President Trump's administration, America First policies. You know, the Biden team likes to say that, you know, if Trump was America First, that now it's America's back. You know, it's very much about rejoining the international community and not only rejoining the international community, but becoming a leader again on the world stage. It's about sending a signal to allies as well as adversaries that they plan to restore America's image in the world after, you know, frankly, four years of Trump's unilateral approach, you know, cozying up to authoritarians and hurting, you know,

traditional relationship with, you know, European allies. And obviously, Scott can talk about this as well. You know, he interviewed Jake Sullivan about this. It's also about making a case to Americans about why reengaging in the world like this is important for everyone, including Americans on Main Street. Yeah, I mean, I think job number one for for the Biden White House is try to get back to how things were before, where America was this trusted voice with its allies. But there's this other aspect, which is interesting because there are so many people in this administration who are longtime foreign policy hands, who have been at the table for a long time, who were in the Obama White House setting this policy.

And that's kind of realizing that most Americans, many American voters have lost the thread and don't really care about what's going on. And especially when it comes to, you know, trade agreements with other countries, treaties with other countries might be skeptical in this world where there is a resurgence of nationalism and, you know, skepticism of globalism, depending on the viewpoint. So Biden and Jake Sullivan and Tony Blinken and others are really making a point to try and connect the lines and saying, we are doing this because this, we are doing this because it helps you in this way here in this country. And I think that's

something you're going to hear a lot about, especially as they try to navigate more complicated areas that might confuse a lot of people who are just, you know, half paying attention to them. Do you think it's fair to say that foreign policy is the area where President Biden feels strongest? I mean, when I think of him and his strengths, I think of foreign policy. I mean, he ran the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in the Senate. He's traveled all over the world for decades and decades. And it seems like the arena in which he is most comfortable versus saying like fiscal policy or some other domestic policies that other Democrats or other presidents have been strong on? I think absolutely. I mean, I think if you if you took kind of dealing with Congress as a whole, that would be another area where he's equally comfortable and loves to engage.

And we saw it this week when every single meeting with congressional leaders lasted like an hour and a half to two hours. But, yeah, he has he has always loved being the point person on foreign policy. I think he must be deeply frustrated to have moved into the White House in the middle of a pandemic because he always talks about how foreign policy really comes down to one-on-one relationships. And every time he talks about whether it's a treaty or setting a new policy in Iraq or Afghanistan or anywhere, talks about sitting in the room with other leaders, getting to know each other on a personal basis and hashing it out. So I think as soon as he can travel around and have these meetings in person, he will

love it even more. But he has certainly been very engaged in all of these calls with world leaders that have been happening over the first few weeks. And you could hear it in his voice yesterday when he's speaking at the State Department, talking about having foreign services officers back, being there for them, and that America needs them badly. I mean, you could hear it resonating as he spoke about these issues. They were very personal and passionate to him. America is back. America is back. Diplomacy is back. You are the center of all that I intend to do. You are the heart of it.

We're going to rebuild our alliances. We're going to re-engage the world and take on the enormous challenge we face dealing with the pandemic, dealing with global warming, and again, standing up for democracy and human rights around the world. So let's get into the details of the speech. Obviously, I think it's an understatement to say there's lots of points of conflict all over the world and in foreign policy and diplomatic questions for the administration. Let's start with Russia. Obviously, in the news a lot right now, Russian President Vladimir Putin has detained Alexei Navalny. He's an opposition leader that he appears to have tried to assassinate last year.

What did Biden have to say about Russia? Yeah, you know, he condemned the jailing of Navalny, you know, the opposition leader, and accused Russia of cracking down on dissent and freedom of expression. You know, along with the coup in Myanmar, these two things are a really big task for the Biden administration. You know, the world's really watching whether Biden can, you know, marshal international support and be the leader that Biden says it wants to be on the global stage. You know, but at the same time, and, you know, Biden said this yesterday, he also needs adversaries like Russia, like China. On Russia, he needs Russian assistance to combat big issues like nuclear proliferation, climate, COVID-19.

He needs China in those areas, too, especially in climate and COVID-19. You know, it's really a balance. And you kind of saw that with his call to Putin. You know, he raised the concerns about the arrest of Navalny, but at the also at the same time talked about reaching a deal on extending the nuclear arms treaty. So it really is something it's, you know, there's two sides of this coin. And in the Middle East, Scott, he also talked about the war in Yemen. Yeah, this has been an increasingly high profile area that a lot of Democrats in Congress, especially, well, actually, let me take that back. It became a bipartisan issue in Congress over the last few years. There was a lot of pressure for the Trump administration to stop the American support for a Saudi led war in Yemen that has just led to this horrific humanitarian crisis.

It's kind of a proxy war going on. And that has just led to this horrific humanitarian crisis there. It's kind of a proxy war going on. And Saudi Arabia was flying, you know, American made fighter jets using American technology. There were American military advisers involved in the process. This actually got to President Trump's desk before he vetoed it, a bipartisan bill to get the United States out of this. Biden announced yesterday the U.S. is no longer going to support the military aspects here. And he's also naming a special envoy to try and reach some sort of peace agreement. So this is something that a lot of people in this country have wanted to see for a long time. And Biden made this announcement in his first appearance at the State Department.

Franco, you referenced Myanmar and what's going on there. And it made me wonder how much credibility the U.S. has right now around the world, especially when it's talking about democracy reform and free and fair elections coming after what happened here on January 6th. And is that a problem that this administration is going to have to confront about how the world sees the U.S. right now? I think there's no question about that. You know, I actually talked with some former ambassadors this week about that very issue. And, you know, they told me that first and foremost, President Biden needs to stand up and make clear that he is standing up for good governance here in the United States and making sure to let the world know that January 6th was an aberration and not a sign of the United States' problems with democracy. Because the world is watching. I mean, Europe is, no question about it, many leaders in Europe, traditional allies whose feelings were bruised by Trump are now excited about Biden.

But at the same time, they are cautious about, you know, what kind of political capital Biden will have because they see what is going on around the country. They see that 70 million people did vote for President Trump in the America First policies, which were very different. Obviously, many more voted for Biden, but it is still a big segment of the community. And there are questions about how much energy, how much political capital Biden will really have to focus on these issues, especially when there are so many domestic challenges going on. COVID, climate change, racial equity. It's a big challenge. I mean, it was so glaring to read the headlines of this coup that Biden and the State Department

are condemning in Myanmar and seeing some of the justifications. There was widespread election fraud, right? Things like that, things that we heard in this country. It just underscores how difficult it is for the U.S. to talk from a position of moral authority on these issues. And I think this goes to a lot of different areas, too. Just to quickly mention it, this goes to the challenge that Biden and the U.S. face on climate change, too, coming back into the international fold, saying we want to be a part of a bigger deal of more action. Other countries are saying, well, wait a second, your country just undermined our climate action for the last four years. And we also know that any sort of broad legislation that would be needed in the U.S. for the U.S. to

meet its goals would be incredibly hard to pass because so many Republicans in Congress just don't want to take that sort of action right now. All right. Let's take a quick break. And when we get back, we'll talk about what Vice President Harris has been up to. We are still in the middle of this pandemic. And right now, having science news you can trust from variants to vaccines is essential. NPR Shortwave has your back. About 10 minutes every weekday, listen and subscribe to Shortwave, the daily science podcast from NPR. And we're back. And Scott, you've spent some time this week reporting on Vice President Harris and how she's been spending her time in these early weeks in office. You know, before we get there,

I think it's worth talking about how like it's really unclear what the job of the vice president is. And it's kind of up to each administration to determine what they want this role to be. That's right. Almost every vice president in the history of the country has struggled with what the job is. And the job was almost entirely irrelevant, except, of course, when the president died and the vice president became president. It hasn't really been until like the Carter administration that the vice president was viewed as a key player in an administration and a partner of a president. Joe Biden is probably one of the most powerful vice presidents ever. But he always made a point when he was in that office of saying the vice presidency in itself is not worth that

much. Here's one moment that he said that in a 2015 interview with Stephen Colbert. It is a directly a reflection of your relationship with the president. If you have a relationship with the president, then it is and everyone knows if they do, if it's real, that you have his his back and you also have his confidence, then you can really do something worthwhile. And from the moment that Biden picked Kamala Harris as his running mate, he made it clear and she made it clear that they wanted to have this same close working relationship. Biden wanted Harris to be a key advisor. So, you know, I tried to do some reporting on how this is going so far, especially since on the public side, at least up until today, we have really only seen Kamala Harris kind of standing in the background, not talking when Biden is signing orders and giving speeches and doing a lot of ceremonial things like swearing in the cabinet.

I was going to say I haven't heard much from Harris, but then she she came out, you know, early this morning to cast her first tie breaking vote in the Senate to pass a budget resolution through the chamber. On this vote, the yeas are 50, the nays are 50, the Senate being equally divided, the vice president votes in the affirmative, and the concurrent resolution as amended is adopted. The vice president, of course, can only vote in the Senate on tie-breaking votes, but in a 50-50 Senate, I think we're going to see a lot of Kamala Harris up on Capitol Hill over the next two years. Yeah, that's going to be a big public role for her, especially on high-profile measures like this vote today that was the first step toward getting this stimulus package passed. And I think there's a couple of things going on here. First of all, and I talked at length to someone named Dan Moraine.

He's a longtime California reporter who just published one of the first, if not the first, biographies of Kamala Harris. And he made this point that if you look at each time that she's gone into a high profile new job, she's kind of had a period where she has worked very hard to kind of figure things out behind the scenes and kind of take stock of the best approach to have before she goes out and makes waves. And that seems to be what's going on here. But it's also that both Harris and Joe Biden have really wanted to emphasize the behind the scenes nature of this job. Her White House official was saying that she has been in almost every single meeting with Biden. We've seen when he's met with Senate Republicans, Senate Democrats, House Democrats,

Harris is sitting right next to him. So both of them are kind of focusing on the governing right now. But, of course, the other reality is that she is this historic figure, the first woman, the first woman of color to hold this job. And there are a lot of expectations that she will be more visible. And later this afternoon, I'm going to go. I'm in the White House right now. I'm going to go over to the old executive office building and cover her first kind of solo event. She and Janet Yellen are going to be making a pitch for the stimulus plan.

But those types of things have not been that frequent so far, at least. I actually had a question for you guys, because, you know, with y'all's experience on the Hill, I was curious if you knew, like, how much would she be on the Hill? I mean, how many times a week could we potentially see her there casting tie-breaking votes? I mean, obviously, the Congress is so divided. How regular could this be? You know, it's probably more likely for things like nominations, confirmation votes. We saw that a lot even under the former Trump administration. You know, Mike Pence usually was coming up to break tie votes on nominees or judges in particular. I could see that being similar for Kamala Harris. They still have a lot of vacancies to fill. And a lot of them, once you get past sort of the non-controversial cabinet types, you know, they tend to get a little bit more partisan. The legislation question is tougher in the Senate, you know, you need a 60 vote threshold to get overcome to get most bills to the floor. And usually by the time you get there, if you can do that, you have the support, you need to pass it. So you're not going to face as many 5050 votes like she was up on the Senate for this

budget vote, because that bill only needed 50 votes to pass. But I do imagine, you know, one question I have, and we'll see what happens is that, you know, former President Obama relied on Biden a lot to be this liaison to Capitol Hill. And Kamala Harris, you know, she doesn't have the tenure on Capitol Hill that Joe Biden had when he stepped into the role. But she does know a lot of the players up there. And she does have a lot of relationships up there. And does he rely on her to be sort of a negotiating liaison in the way that he played that role for Obama? talked to the podcast a few weeks ago just before taking office, what lanes are going to be your specific lanes. And she has really rejected that and tried to get around it and say, I will be a

partner on all things. But I think the other aspect is that a vice president is usually, I mean, I made this point before, but it's a relevant point here. A vice president is usually somebody who goes on the road to sell policies, who goes on the road overseas. That's just hard to do right now, no matter who's vice president because of this pandemic. And also, it's still very early in this administration. I mean, there are lanes that could be created, you know, created by events that have not yet happened. I mean, a crisis here, a crisis there. And it may, you know, be the vice president's job to kind of take the lead on that as vice presidents have in the may, you know, be the vice president's job to kind of take the lead on that as vice presidents have in the past, you know, whether it's even, you know, Vice President Pence,

you know, taking the lead, at least initially, on the COVID crisis. It is so early that she actually has not even moved into the official vice presidential residence yet, because they're doing some work on it now that it's empty. So she's living across the street from the White House in Blair House temporarily and hasn't even moved into her house yet. So that is a reality check. But I think we will have this conversation a few more times, especially given the fact that there are so many open questions about whether Joe Biden would run for a second term. Yeah. I mean, that was what I was going to ask you about is that there seems to be there's going to be this question over this administration until Joe Biden makes clear what his 2024

intentions are, whether he runs or not. And if he doesn't, which, you know, a lot of people don't think he will because of the age factor, she is being set up to be the natural 2024 candidate if he chooses not to do that. So I think she's also being watched in this prism of like potentially the next frontrunner for the Democratic nomination. What I will say is that their entire political circles are very mindful of this and being careful of this. And I do not think you're going to see things like West Wing plot points of her suddenly deciding to take a camping trip to New Hampshire or Iowa or unsubtle moves like that. I think this will be an ongoing conversation in this White House when that decision point is upon them down the line.

But it is something that when you ask about at this point in time, two and a half weeks in, they give you stink eye or whatever the Zoom or email version of stink eye is. Fair enough. All right. Well, let's leave it there. We'll take a quick break. And when we get back, we'll do Can't Let It Go. If you're never quite sure how to answer the question, where are you from? NPR's Rough Translation might be the podcast for you. Yes, finally, someone talk about the thing we just can't let go of, politics or otherwise. Scott, what can't you let go of this week? So I think I need to start with the disclosure that we are all proud members of the SAG-AFTRA union. Oh, I know what you're going to talk about.

It is the card-carrying members. The SAG counts for Screen Actors Guild. As much as we all wish we were screen actors. It's also a broadcasting union. Another member of this union, I did not realize this until this week, was former President Donald Trump. He was threatened with discipline from this union or a possible expulsion from this union because of the attack on the Capitol on January 6th. And in one of his first public pronouncements since leaving office, because of course he's not on Twitter anymore, he sent them an angry resignation letter. And this is something I couldn't let go of for a few reasons. First of all, it is incredibly petty.

It is so petty. And I will read a few lines. And it's also like, I think the fact that it's not on Twitter and it's a formal letter really underscores that even more. And it's also the first time in fact that it's not on Twitter and it's formal letter really underscores that even more. And it's also the first time in five years that this sort of pettiness has zero effect on the rest of the world. Right. Right. Like there's no policy attached to this.

So I just want to read the first two lines. I write to you today regarding the so-called and this is under his new seal that he's made for the office of Donald J. Trump. I write to you today regarding the so-called disciplinary committee hearing aimed at revoking my union membership. Who cares? While I'm not familiar with your work, I'm very proud of my work on movies such as Home Alone 2, Zoolander, and Wall Street Money Never Sleeps, and television shows including The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. I mean, I liked it because I forgot that Trump was in Zoolander. I do remember him from Home Alone 2, but I've seen Zoolander possibly a hundred times, and I had to think it through. It's in the montage. It's not like Billy Zane was quoting

his work in Zoolander, right? Part of why I thought this was so funny, too, is I don't know if many people know this, but the head of our union right now is the actress Gabrielle Carteris, who many people of my generation would recall played the role of Andrea Zuckerman on Beverly Hills 90210. And that just makes it even funnier to me to picture Donald Trump and Gabrielle Carteris in this very petty back and forth fight together. So I guess he's not familiar with that show, as he mentioned, but I don't know that, well, I don't want to get into a Beverly Hills versus the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air conversation,

which was better. I think her work- Two great shows. They don't have to be in competition. Anyway, this letter came across my computer screen. I found great humor in it, and now I'm moving on with my life. Franco, what can't you let go of this week?

The thing I can't let go, you know, speaking of, you know, Trump and the legacy that he has, I can't let go of these reports of there is a Trump campaign bus or an unofficial 2020 campaign bus for sale. Have you heard about this? No. It is this one, allegedly $1.25 million bus. It is huge. It's this 45 foot long, 22 year old bus that this South Messman has been driving around throughout the 2020 campaign. But he never drove the president himself. He says the Secret Service wouldn't allow him to drive former President Trump. But he did say that he did host Donald Trump Jr. and his girlfriend, Kimberly Guilfoyle.

It is the ultimate MAGA, if anything can top a MAGA hat, it's this. And, you know, and to top it all off, he is trying to sell the bus on Craigslist for, as you know, he says, a low, low price of $135,000. So act quickly. Hmm. What's the mileage? That's a great question. My question is if this guy is like the ultimate Trump superfan and I'm looking at pictures of this bus and he might be considering how it's painted. Why is he selling it?

Like, why doesn't he want it anymore? What's wrong with the bus? Makes you wonder. Might be a lemon. I'm just saying if you're interested in the bus, you should probably take it to a mechanic for an inspection before you kind of throw that money at it. Well, you may think that he's giving up on President Trump. And, you know, in the interviews that he has said, he said, you know, no, no, no. He plans to, you know, stick with Trump and that he's going to come back in 2024. But that he says he needs to, you know, try to pick up some cash to kind of keep it rolling.

And to your question, Scott, I don't know the mileage, but I did look it up that it is a it is allegedly a 22 year old bus. So I'm not sure I wouldn't I wouldn't jump too quick there. I just got a new car. I'm all set. Sue, what about you? The thing I can't let go this week is blue check homes. Did y'all see this? I missed this. I saw this. That was wild. So there is a San Francisco artist who did this sort of like internet satire thing where she posted a fake website and where she was offering a service called blue check homes where Bay Area residents could apply to have sort of crests installed on the outside of their homes. And it would be like the real life version of a Twitter blue check to

verify that someone in that home was like a real person, like an influencer or somebody important in, you know, the tech industry. And she did it as like a joke, right? Like it was kind of like an art piece about this idea of like who's a verified person or not. But the thing I can't let go about it is nearly 500 people applied to get these blue checks installed outside their actual homes. And she was said on the joke website that it was, in order to do it, it was $3,000 to get it installed. I love that it's in San Francisco. It's like the tech world. But I think I would caution you to not act so surprised. It is very early. I could see this thing spreading. I mean, like, I don't know about you guys, but once everybody started getting blue checks on their Twitter accounts, I started wondering, why don't I have one?

I need to get one. I need to work on this. How do they do that? I mean, I'm a little nervous about being pulled into the peer pressure here. I almost think she should make this like a real business now. If enough people actually want that and want to pay $3,000, she could make a million bucks without even actually working that hard. And she's already an artist, so she knows how to make them. I think I could honestly tell you,

I would be more likely to spend $150,000 on a campaign bus than $3,000 on a blue checkmark outside my house. Fair enough. All right. Well, I think that's a wrap for today. Again, I want to apologize if any of the drilling or thumping was annoying to you in the taping of this podcast. To make up for it, I might be willing to post a picture of my brand new cabinets on our Facebook page. I just assumed you were making a smoothie for the entire taping, and it was just going to be delicious when you were done with us. I might do that next week. Our executive producer is Shirley Henry.

Our editors are Mathoni Mottori and Eric McDaniel. Our producers are Barton Girdwood and Chloe Weiner. Thanks to Lexi Schapittle and Brandon Carter. Our intern is Claire Obie. I'm Susan Davis. I cover Congress. I'm Franco Ordonez. I cover the White House.

And I'm Scott Detrow. I cover the White House too. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.