The NPR Politics Podcast - Weekly Roundup: Friday, December 6

Episode Date: December 6, 2019

Now that Speaker Pelosi has announced that the House will draft articles of impeachment, Democrats must decide how wide or narrow those articles will be. Plus, what does all the drama at the NATO summit say about the United States on the world stage? This episode: Congressional correspondent Susan Davis, White House correspondent Tamara, Keith, White House reporter Ayesha Rascoe, Congressional editor Deirdre Walsh, and senior political editor & correspondent Domenico Montanaro.Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio station.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hey there, real quick before we start the show. Since this impeachment inquiry got underway, the squad here at NPR Politics has made more than 50 daily episodes. Sometimes more than daily to keep you informed about what's happening and why it matters. And we're able to do that and to put it out there for free because of support from listeners like you. You and everybody else who listens to our shows are the biggest source of financial support for NPR's member stations. No matter where or how you hear us every day, the fact is that the stations are the reason this podcast exists in the first place. So if you enjoy our podcast, please take a second to give

back. Donate online to support us and your local station by heading to donate.npr.org slash politics. Hi, this is Daniel Goldstein. Culver City, California is where I geolocate. Now wait for the break while they stamp time a date. Wow. I love that. It's 1211 p.m. on Friday, December 6th. Things might have changed by the time this pod drops, so pull out your calendars and check your clocks.

Those other podcasts better take clues because NPR politics is never fake news. That's everything that you really ought to know. So sit back, relax, and please enjoy the show. Is that a first? Is that a first, a wrapped? It's the first one I can remember in recent times, at least. Certainly in recent weeks.

You know, the White House launched a rap contest. Let's launch it now. You heard it here. Submit your raps. I'm all for it. I'm all for it. Shake it up for 2020. Singing, maybe.

More. Rap is pretty hard. Okay. Now we're going to get operettas. I would like a holiday-themed rap. All right. You've heard it. Hey there.

It's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Susan Davis. I cover Congress. I'm Deirdre Walsh, Congressional Editor. I'm Ayesha Roscoe. I cover the White House. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And this week, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi made it official, although it wasn't necessarily

surprising, that the House will move forward with articles of impeachment against President Trump. The president leaves us no choice. The question now is, what are they going to say? Deirdre, we've been talking a lot about this this week. I mean, Democrats have actually had kind of an easy road so far. There hasn't been a lot of internal party blowups. There hasn't been a lot of blips in the road. Writing, putting pen to paper, putting the articles down and saying what exactly they're going to bring the charges against Donald Trump is not necessarily the easiest question. No, I think it's the remaining

question left in impeachment. And I think we saw Pelosi lay out some hints in her press conference. There was one discussion at the beginning of her press conference where Pelosi suggested that she understands that maybe the public totally doesn't get the Ukraine matter. And she was suggesting that what we should talk about is how broad and how this relates to Russia. Sometimes people say, well, I don't know about Ukraine. I don't know that much about Ukraine. Well, our adversary in this is Russia. All roads lead to Putin. Understand that. Which is why this week we've started talking again about the Mueller report. One of the questions that Democrats have are debating internally is whether they use any of the allegations of obstruction of justice by the president in the Mueller report,

in these articles of impeachment, even though after the Mueller report, it seemed like impeachment was not going to happen. And we know that they're thinking about it, at least, because publicly they talked about it during that hearing the other day with the constitutional scholars. Norma Eisen, who was a White House ethics lawyer under President Obama, was the one doing the questioning for the Democrats. And he laid out three specific areas that he was plying the scholars on for potential articles. He said, one, abuse of power and bribery. Two, obstruction of Congress, which we can understand with all the subpoenas that haven't been fulfilled. And three, obstruction of justice. And they laid out five points within the Mueller report to make the case for obstruction of justice. And the other thing Pelosi said when she was asked about, you know, why the rush,

why are you guys going through this so quickly, was like, look, this has been a two and a half year investigation since Robert Mueller was appointed as special counsel. But isn't that also kind of the argument that Republicans have been making this idea that Democrats have been wanting or trying to impeach President Trump since he got elected and the Mueller report was something that they were that they were hoping would lead to impeachment that didn't like does that play into that argument? I think it does because the voices that we've talked to and a lot of the Democrats I've talked to this week who are reluctant or clear they don't want to include any reference to the Mueller report are a lot of those

freshman Democrats who helped win the majority in 2018. A lot of them represent swing districts or districts where Donald Trump's still popular. One of them that we talked to is Alyssa Slotkin. She's a Democrat from Michigan, and she's really clear that she wants to keep it really narrow just to the matter of Ukraine. I personally don't think that this should be a kitchen sink approach where we take every single grievance we have with the president and put it into one big bucket. I don't support that. You know, but to be clear, they don't have to vote for all of the articles. I mean, let's say they bring obstruction of justice, and most of that deals with the Mueller report. You know, when they brought three articles of impeachment against Nixon, there were only a handful of Republicans who voted for the articles of impeachment before Nixon resigned.

And only one Republican voted for all three articles of impeachment. That happened to be Lawrence Hogan, who was a congressman from Maryland, who happens to be the father of the governor of Maryland currently, sort of never Trumper Larry Hogan. Well, voters get that nuance, though, in 2020. Do voters split hairs like that anymore? I don't think so. I think that the vote that we saw on the House impeachment inquiry resolution could be very similar to the vote we see on the House floor on articles of impeachment. Which was what they lost? How many Democrats? They lost two Democrats. And I saw that that one of them, Jeff Van Drew from New Jersey, is already signaling that based on what he's seen in the Ukraine investigation, he's not prepared to vote for

articles of impeachment. Yeah. There's also other Democrats, though, on the on the question of making it broader is you have Democrats who were a lot of Democrats and a lot of the liberal base of the party who was for impeachment before the Ukraine matter. And they think not including what they see as impeachable offenses against President Trump, impossible articles, is political malpractice and is something that could really anger a lot of Democrats. And I talked to one of them, Al Green, he's a Democrat from Texas. He was one of these Democrats who had introduced articles of impeachment against the president, you know, long before the Ukraine matter. And he said he thought Democrats would be making a mistake if they just let it go

by the wayside. And the other argument they've been making, right, Sue, is that they recognize that they don't have the votes to convict and remove the president in the Senate. But they feel like after all this time and all the investigations that multiple committees have been doing is that it justifies putting all the evidence that they've found out there for the public and for them to vote on. Right. There is the argument that when because of that very fact that President Trump right now doesn't look like he's going to get removed. But the reason why the House is arguing or Democrats in the House are arguing they need to go forward is because they need to make a statement and basically set a standard that this sort of conduct is impeachable and send that message to future presidents. And I think some of these Democrats are making the argument that, yeah, we need to send a statement about all of

these other things as well and not just about Ukraine, that there were other actions that they believe warn impeachment. And so Democrats should send that message. Ayesha, how is the White House responding to this? Because prior to Pelosi's announcement, they seem to be maybe still thinking that the House wasn't convinced it was going to move forward with articles of impeachment. It's now clear that they absolutely are. Has it changed how the White House strategy at all? Well, so if you're talking to them, there was this thought, I think, among some officials in the White House that they might go ahead with the articles. But I think some were very clear that this was going to happen and that this was likely to happen. And so what you're seeing now is not necessarily a change in strategy,

but this idea that they're going to continue fighting against the arguments for impeachment and continuing to say that there's just no evidence there or that the evidence there is lacking. And they're going to keep harping in on these Democrats who they feel like are vulnerable to the charge that they're participating in impeachment, even though their districts favor President Trump. From the Hill vantage point, it looks like the White House is already sort of leapfrogging over the House part of this process and focused on the Senate. They had White House counsel Pat Cipollone was meeting behind closed doors with Senate Republicans this week. One of their top

legislative liaisons, Eric Ulan, was in that meeting sort of game planning how they think the Senate could go. And Republicans are certainly the White House is sending the message that they think they're going to get a fairer shot in the Senate because it's controlled by Republicans. But I don't think they've thought that through. I'm not sure they've thought that through either. But that's that is the message that Senate Republicans are getting from the White House is they think that the president is more willing to engage in the Senate because Republicans will certainly have a stronger hand in writing the rules of that road. Yeah. And I think the amazing thing here is that we're essentially, like a lot of times in Congress,

going to have a really consequential vote, probably right around Christmas. And, you know, then we're going to move into January with the Senate and a whole new crop of people in power who are running a Senate trial. All right, we'll leave it there. And dear Joe, we need to say goodbye to you. You need to get back to work. And when we get back, we'll talk about a gossip session caught on tape at this week's NATO meeting. Support for NPR and the following message come from Rothy's. Rothy's are the perfect gift for the woman in your life who is always on the go and loves a good balance of fashion and function. Rothy's are carefully crafted shoes made from repurposed plastic water bottles. They're stylish, available in a wide array of colors and patterns, and fully machine washable.

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Learn more about what Aspen Snowmass is doing to combat climate change at giveaflake.com. An American, a Russian, and a Ukrainian walk into a bar. No, this is not the impeachment hearings. It's a comedy competition in Ukraine. I'm Gregory Warner, the high stakes of comedy in a country led by a comedian. It's a social mission to unite the country. On Rough Translation from NPR. And we're back and we're joined by Washington Desk's own world traveler, Tamara Keith,

who just got back from London covering NATO. Hey, Tam. Hello. So how was the trip? Well, it was a little cold and the flight was long. How was the trip? Well, it was a little cold and the flight was long. How was the Queen? I didn't get to see the Queen. But no, it was a very interesting trip. What was the expectation going in? The expectations weren't particularly high. You know, they'd actually cut short the meeting. This wasn't a full on summit. This was just basically a meeting to celebrate the 70th

anniversary of NATO, which is this alliance of nations that was just basically a meeting to celebrate the 70th anniversary of NATO, which is this alliance of nations that was formed as a bulwark against Russian aggression after World War II. So, and a frequent topic of Trump criticism. Yeah, particularly during the campaign when he repeatedly criticized it. No, we don't really need NATO in its current form. NATO is obsolete and we're spending disproportionately. And even now, he has been very critical of other countries for not contributing as much as he says the U.S. does. He says, you know, all the other countries are basically deadweight. The U.S. is carrying them. And Trump is known for bringing the drama to these NATO summits, right, Tam? You know as well as I do that President Trump brings the drama.

And he certainly brought the drama to this one, too, but it wasn't entirely of his own making this time. Yeah, I mean, the drama wasn't exactly all Trump this time because, you know, we saw the views of some of these other leaders on full display of President Trump. I mean, one thing we should say is if there's a microphone or if you're close by anything at NATO, it's going to get picked up, right? So you had Justin Trudeau, the Prime Minister of Canada, talking to Emmanuel Macron, the leader of France, and they were basically joking about President Trump. And that is not something President Trump takes too kindly to. Yeah. And Boris Johnson was there, too. And they were they were sort of like standing

around yucking it up at this reception about how President Trump had he had held bilateral meetings, these meetings with both Macron and Trudeau earlier in the day. And he had opened it up to questions from reporters that lasted like 30 minutes for Trudeau and in the day. And he had opened it up to questions from reporters that lasted like 30 minutes for Trudeau and 40 minutes for Macron. So they were kind of like joking about, oh, why are you late? Oh, basically, I was held hostage by President Trump

while he took questions from reporters. And it was really weird seeing Trump sitting next to Angela Merkel of Germany, then, you know, thwack at Trudeau, calling him two-faced, and then saying, well, you know, he's a nice guy. Well, he's two-faced. Do you think that Germany's too nice?

And honestly, with Trudeau, he's a nice guy. I find him to be a very nice guy. But, you know, the truth is that I told him out of the fact that he's not paying 2 percent and I guess he's not very happy about it. Although it's so clear that that video got under the president's skin. I mean, he left early, right? Yeah. No press conference.

Right. I mean, he had taken questions for more than two hours over the course of a day and a half that he was in London. But there was supposed to be a press conference. I had taken a bus like two hours to the location. I had gotten there early. I got in the front row. I was going to ask questions. I was probably the best question of your career was ready to go.

Best question of my career. What was the question, Tam? Well, I had some questions about Ukraine and about the Intelligence Committee report that it lost to the ages now. But, you know, so he just like abruptly cancels the press conference and skips town. And you have to figure that part of it was like taking the toys and going home. And part of it was like, how many questions do you want to be asked about world leaders standing around gossiping about you? And Trump is he makes

everything so personal, right? Like I think and that's what we've seen over and over again in this administration is that Trump believes in diplomacy, but he is the diplomacy, right? His personal relationships with the world leaders is what matters. And that's why he's always saying, oh, no, but I have a great relationship with everyone. I have a great relationship with Angela Merkel, even though I talk really bad about her. We all get along great. But that video show that's not really probably true, right? I mean, certainly what one person who is close to Trudeau told me is that, you know, all of these leaders have at one point or another publicly expressed their astonishment with the way that President Trump conducts diplomacy. It's not the way other people do it it and his assessment was they were just standing around

discussing their astonishment at the way trump does trump and probably the way a lot of people do right world leaders just like us and there's a thing that president trump had done during the campaign over and over again repeatedly that he used this line saying that the world is laughing at us the world is laughing at us under The world is laughing at us under President Obama and the kind of weak leadership as he saw it. No sooner did President Trump step down off of the stairs of Air Force One, essentially, after this trip that Joe Biden landed an ad and basically a right hook showing Trudeau and Macron and Johnson laughing at Trump, as the ad put it, said a president who's being laughed at. Several world leaders mocking President Trump.

They're laughing at him. My administration has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country. Didn't expect that reaction, but that's OK. And then they said a strong leader, Biden. So it finally kind of for Biden crystallizes a way to give him something to run on that people can kind of rally behind, at least for Democrats. But here's my question. Do Trump voters look at that and think it hurts the president? Or does it just reaffirm what they like about Trump, that he's not someone that the world leaders want to cozy up to? These wussy world leaders. Wussy world leaders and our strong president, right? Does it really hurt Trump the way that Biden intends it to? It doesn't hurt

Trump voters. And that's probably not who Biden is trying to reach out to, to those that are really staunchly in Trump's corner. What they will look at that and see is that, yes, Trump is coming in and he's disrupting things and he is, you know, being America first and showing. And so, yeah, these French and, you know, Canadians don't like it. So what? We're American. So I don't think that it shakes up President Trump's base at all. And I mean, I don't know how much independence or anyone is moved by this sort of stuff. So on the substance of it, there's some mean girl drama with the world leaders, clearly gives Joe Biden a political victory of sorts to poke fun at the president on this.

But didn't the NATO Secretary Jens Stoltenberg also say that this NATO meeting was actually a success, that people walked away, the world leaders walked away thinking that they had come to terms on a number of agreements and that the alliance, even though it's been a focal point of much criticism, is still strong. Conveniently, I was in the front row for Stoltenberg's press conference, too, because it was going to be in the same room as the Trump press conference. And you had showed up very early. And I showed up very early. So I was in the front row when he said that. And yeah, he said, hey, guess what? For all the drama, and there's always drama, and there are always personality issues, he said that a number of nations have stepped up.

They're contributing more to their own national defense, making NATO stronger, contributing more to NATO. And he said all of the nations there reaffirmed their support for Article 5. Article 5 is this key tenet of the NATO alliance that all for one and one for all, if one is attacked, then all of them will respond. The only time it's actually ever been enacted was after 9-11. But, you know, there had been early in the Trump administration questions. I mean, heck, there were even questions at NATO just now about whether Trump would truly come to the defense of some of these smaller Baltic

nations, for instance. And Stoltenberg came out and said, for all the challenges, we just reaffirmed one more time. Okay, well, let's leave it there. We'll take a quick break. And when we come back, it's time for Can't Let It Go. Support for this podcast and the following message come from Google. From Connecticut to California, from Mississippi to Minnesota, millions of American businesses are using Google tools to grow online. The Grow with Google initiative supports small businesses by providing free digital skills workshops and one-on-one coaching in all 50 states, helping businesses get online,

connect with new customers, and work more productively. Learn more at google.com slash grow. And before we get back to the show, a quick reminder, if you haven't already, please pause the podcast and head to donate.npr.org slash politics to support the show and your local member station. Unless you're driving or holding a baby, then you can wait. Just don't forget to do it. All right, back to the show. And we're back. And it's time to end the show like we do every week with Can't Let It Go, the part of the show where we talk about the things from the week that we can't stop thinking about politics or otherwise. Domenico, what can't you let go this week?

Wow. What I can't let go of is Joe Biden in Iowa. He was in New Hampton, Iowa. There was a man who got up and he said he had two issues with Joe Biden's candidacy. He said one, you're damn near as old as I am. You're too old for the job. I'm 83 and I know damn well I don't have the metal faculties I did when I was 30 years ago. And ha ha ha, that's the kind of thing a lot of candidates cannot laugh off. But then he said, we all know Trump's been messing around in ukraine but but you on the other hand sent your son over there to get a job and work for a gas company that he had no experience with gas or nothing in order to get access for the for the president that sent joe Biden off. And he responded like this. You're a damn liar, man.

That's not true. And no one has ever said that. No one has ever said that. I see it on the TV. You see it on the TV. No, I know you do. And by the way, that's why I'm not sedentary. I don't, I get up and let them go. Let them go. Look, the reason I'm running is because I've been around a long time and I know more than most people now and I can get things done Look, the reason I'm running is because I've been around a long time, and I know more than most people know. And I can get things done. That's why I'm running. And you want to check my shape on, let's do push-ups together here, man.

Let's run. Let's do whatever you want to do. Let's take an IQ test, okay? Number one. Number two. Number two. No one has said my son has done anything wrong, and I did not on any occasion. And no one has ever said it.

I didn't say you were doing anything wrong. You said I set up my son to work in an oil company. Isn't that what you said? Get your words straight, Jack. I legit wish Joe Biden would have gotten down and started doing push-ups, though. I think that man should have called his bluff. I think the bigger political thing is this Rorschach test of what to make of that, right? I saw Republicans, Sean Hannity saying, oh my God, here's the moment. Joe Biden's lost it. He's berating a voter.

And then I see liberals and other Democrats saying, finally, you've got the authentic Joe Biden going out, not taking guff from anybody. He's going to say what he needs to say. And he's going to call for lack of another word, malarkey, malarkey. I think it was an awkward moment, though, because I think it's weird and maybe not advantageous for when politicians punch back at voters, right? Like save it for the debate stage, save it for your opponent, save it for Donald Trump. But this is a legit voter in Iowa. I don't get the sense that he was a plant, you know, like he wasn't someone sent there to do this. And it just I don't ever know if a candidate, any candidate comes off looking stronger for sort of punching back at a voter. is candidates who seem to be themselves so they'll forgive you for doing something that

they maybe wouldn't do themselves if they think it's authentic yeah and so people may look at biden and say well maybe he shouldn't have said that but i think that's who he is and i'll tell you what there's a school of thought now in this part of the primary i've talked to a bunch of democrats who are starting to say you know what you got to just take the reins off of biden like fine he's gonna say things's going to make lots of flubs. But because of Trump and because of the fact that Biden has this long track record, he can just say, look, the gaffes are the gaffes, not because I'm old, but because I just make gaffes. Sue, what can't you let go of?

Well, speaking of things caught on tape, something that gave me a little bit of a laugh this week that I want to share with our listeners. It is an NPR audio exclusive. This has not aired anywhere else, but is an exclusive piece of tape between two of our friends at NPR, David Green and Noelle King, hosts of a sister podcast up first. As listeners may or may not know, a lot of times before we start rolling officially in the podcast, we have some banter and some chat. And here's a little bit of chat between David and Noelle in studio this week. Can I read you this tweet? Of course you can. And get your reaction? Yeah, of course. I'm just going to play it straight and quote from it. Okay. This woman wrote, my favorite move to friend zone a guy is to talk about current events. Nothing sucks the sexual tension out of a room quite like a cold cup of a morning NPR podcast.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! There are other morning NPR podcasts, right? Of course. No, I mean, it's not clearly us. See, NPR is a public service in so many ways. Also, it is clearly them. A morning NPR podcast may be a cup of cold water, but what about the NPR politics podcast?

I don't know. I don't know. Hot stuff. We're getting warmed up. We're just getting warmed up here. We're a family podcast. We keep it clean. Tam, what can't you let go this week?

This might not be the time to talk about all the movies I watched on the plane on the way home from London. They were not clean. But what I cannot let go of is that I had this very... What did you watch on the plane? I watched Hustlers. On a plane? Yeah. And then I watched Booksmart, which was

totally awesome. Oh, yeah. It's like a, you know, last... Like an indie feel-good girl power flick. Like, last day of high school, they've been perfectly book smart, and then they just go wild at this party. But in a hilarious, awesome girl power way. That was wonderful. Sensing a theme of your movie watching? And then I watched The Irishman, which is this Netflix movie.

Martin Scorsese directed it. Must have been a long flight. It was an extremely long flight. And I was worried that my batteries would die before that movie was over because it was like four hours long. But lots of shooting, not a wholesome. Luckily, no kids sitting next to me on the plane. But it was just what I can't let go is the amazing gift I had of eight hours of no Wi-Fi and no cell service and just getting to consume some popular culture like other people do. Well, time is limited. So the Tamara Keith critic reviews, if I can only watch

one movie this weekend, should I watch Hustlers, Booksmart or The Irishman? Booksmart it is. However, Irishman is an excellent film. Ayesha, what can't you let go of this week? Well, what I can't let go of this week, everyone should look at this if they haven't seen it already. But it's this short film called Hair Love. And it's by Matthew Cherry. And basically, it's only seven minutes, but it's the story of this African-American father and his daughter. And he's trying to figure out how to do her hair. I'm already crying.

Aw. Aw. And it's really sweet. I'm not going to give it away, but it is sweet. There may be tears. And I can relate to it because I'm not good at doing hair. And I have two daughters now. We used to go get our hair done.

My mama wasn't good at hair either. We got our hair done. Now I'm trying to do my daughter's hair. And so there's a part in the short film where the hair fights back. And that's what I feel. At first with my daughter's hair, I felt like the hair was fighting me back. And when he tried to do it and it still looked crazy. And that's the way I was feeling. So I could relate to the film.

And but it's one and it gives a key thing it says you gotta moisturize first and that is key that's what i learned so it's good there was like a viral video of what i should send it send me that and also this one but it was like a little a dad doing a little girl's hair and she was like complimenting him along the way because clearly dads don't feel confident doing hair and she was like you're doing a good job dad and it like went viral and it was very cute i will just say the dad hair struggle for his daughter is very real um i'm very proud of the fact that i have finally figured out how to put my daughter's hair up in a ponytail oh congratulations she has gone all week with this ginormous jojo siwa ribbon oh wow in her hair she's loving it and i I just, you know,

I feel good every day that I was able to do that. Way to go. That is nice. Yeah. Wow. That's a nice note to end the show on this week, guys. That is a wrap for today. Our executive producer is Shirley Henry. Our editors are Mathoni Mottori and Eric McDaniel.

Our producer is Barton Girdwood. Our production assistant is Chloe Weiner. Thanks to Lexi Schapittle, Dana Farrington, Brandon Carter, and Elena Burnett. I'm Susan Davis. I cover Congress. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. I'm Aisha Roscoe. I also cover the White House. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast. podcast.